2old

IMO, charge it where you can see the battery or where you wouldn't mind having a fire (i use the middle of my patio). Probably this is overkill.

Smaug1

I have a Lectric XP Lite. It probably came with the same charger as your Xpedition. I don't have it in front of me now, but I recall that it is marked with CE, but no other certification marks. Same for the battery. Is this how yours are marked, or do yours have 3rd party NRTL marks like UL, SGS, CSA, ETL, TUV, etc.? (NRTL = Nationally Recognized Test Lab)

By placing the CE marking on the battery & charger, the manufacturer is declaring that it complies with all relevant regulations and directives that are in force in Europe. It is not the mark of a 3rd party NRTL. (UL Mark is, for example) It really means nothing in the USA, since first of all it's self-declared and secondly, it's not for this country, so there would never be any enforcement. A 3rd party mark implies continuing follow-up by the NRTL, to ensure the manufacturer continues to build the products according to the descriptive report that was written when the product was evaluated. CE is honor system unless/until there's a problem, then the government goes after you.

Assuming no 3rd party certification marks, what it really comes down to is how much you trust Lectric and the manufacturer of the charger. I'm sure Lectric has done some testing on the charger and the battery's BMS. (battery management system) Same for the charger and battery mfrs.

These days, I'm sure Lectric is pursuing 3rd party certification, as that's where the market is going. For example, they won't be selling any more eBikes in NYC without this.

As for your charging situation, I don't think you need a timer for that charger, except maybe to limit charging to 80% state of charge. (which will at least double the life of the battery) It is a proper charger, rather than just a power supply. It will charge the battery at 2 A until it gets to 54.6 VDC, then limit the voltage and charge current until the charge current drops below a certain amount. After that, it shuts down the output so that it won't overcharge. Charging to the full voltage that the pack's rated for is not dangerous. But constant trickle charging lithium can be.

As a general charging precaution, you should try to charge the battery where it is a couple feet away from flammable items. When a lithium battery lights off, they emit a flame like a blowtorch that is not possible to extinguish. So for example, don't charge it while leaning against a garbage can or your wooden cabinets. It's probably safer to leave the battery in the bike, as that will hold it away from the floor. If you only bring the battery inside, consider charging it in a Pyrex baking dish away from the walls and preferably not right underneath the wooden cabinets.

My dad improperly charged a lithium-polymer pack in his basement for a 1/4 scale Piper Cub R/C plane he built, but he had the charger set for NiMH, which does not cap the charge voltage like lithium chargers do. It lit off and shot a green blowtorch out of the pack for a minute or so and filled the whole house with smoke. Luckily, he was charging it in a Pyrex baking dish, as his workbench was an unfinished hollow core door and there were balsa scraps everywhere.

Dudelsack 

Well that’s a fine how do you do. I just checked the battery. Made in China, no certification of any time.

It’s not in Lectric’s best interest to torch their customers, so I have to believe they have some sort of rigorous quality control.

Right?

And I keep everything indoors. I could take it outdoors but that would expose it to the ocean wind which slowly destroys everything in its path.

Smaug1

Not even a CE marking?

You might write an email to Lectric expressing your concern and asking what has been done, safety-wise. If they have newer ones that are 3rd party certified, they may offer to send you one, or at least sell you one for cheap.
They may give you a bunch of mealy-mouthed BS, or they may surprise you. When I emailed them asking nicely for something that I wasn't entitled to, they were very cooperative. They have my respect, as a company.

Pop N Wood

All the angst about ebike fires, yet the fact remains a New York city resident is 5 times more likely to die in the subway than from an ebike fire.

No, electric bike fires are not a 'leading cause of death' in New York (electrek.co)

I'm all for safety standards, the new rule is probably a good one, but the #1 problem with ebike batteries is one of perspective.

late

Lithium burns really fast, really hot, and it's really hard to put out.

My battery is from 2017, and I've been charging it in my computer room. I think I need to move it to the garage or something.

Pop N Wood

Yes they do burn until the energy is dissipated. Just like laptops and cell phones. Not the point.

There is so much misinformation surrounding battery fires. This thread for example. Why all the consternation about fires while charging? Is that when they light up? Are uncertified cells really that much more likely to catch fire? I'm asking, don't know. The big point is just how common are fires under normal use? The article I linked suggests not very common.

Most Tesla fires I've seen are on the open road or sitting parked somewhere. Really not many while charging. So if a Tesla battery, which I assume is made to a high standard due to the liability and Tesla being partnered with Panasonic, catches fire while sitting still, why concentrate on when charging or some xenophobic paranoia about who made the battery cell?

Dudelsack 

For the sake of the truth, the Lectric charger really does come with the UL. My bad.

50PlusCycling

Most of the fires caused by e-bike batteries are those inexpensive bikes imported from China, and which are the main workhorse of the food delivery workers in NYC. If you look on YouTube, you’ll see lots of security and elevator cameras catching these bikes spontaneously combusting, sometimes with fatal results. When I walk around NYC, I notice that these delivery bikes are usually locked up outdoors. I wouldn’t keep one indoors. Requiring batteries pass UL standards is an idea, but UL labels and CE labels can be bought in bulk and put on anything.

FBinNY 

So we can all be on thr same page, the issue is not E-bikes, or their batteries per se. It's poor quality batteries, and casual attitudes that don't acknowledge the risks involved.

Case in point, folks don't want to pay to get proper batteries and far too willing to take risks to make or save a few bucks.

Last year we had a major fire that started in an e-bike shop, so fire inspectors are being proactive to prevent a repeat.

Whether it's Teslas, power tools or E-bikes, the challenge is to educate people in a balanced way to be aware of the hazards, without sounding like Chicken Little. Unfortunately, US society has become so binary that decent leadership is all but impossible.

Pop N Wood

And yet the article quoted above says it isn't ebikes but scooters and electric motorcycles.

There is nothing casual about my attitude. Just trying to move people past speculation and to research facts.

Odd that people fear ebike batteries but have zero issue with a phone or laptop next to their bed when they sleep at night.

FBinNY 

I don't expect general reporters to get the subtleties between an E-bike and an electric motorcycle. Since electric motorcycles are heavy, licensed and still rare, it's safe to figure it's about E-bikes.

I can't speak for others, but I don't have a fear of E-bikes, and when 100% of E-bike batteries meet the same standards as cell phones and laptops, this issue will mostly go away.

I agree that the issue gets overblown, and many can't sort out the subtleties. However, equally problematic are the folks who deny the problem entirely.

I see a certain irony here. IMO the folks who should be most interested in battery certification are E-bike owners. First because it most directly affects them, but more importantly because the fire issue will become one more reason to regulate the bikes themselves far more. If the fire issue isn't managed expect landlords to write no e-bike inside clauses into leases, them where will we be.

Pop N Wood

We agree to a large extent. My twist would be to add the phrase "perception of fire risk". People start making unsubstantiated statements, get worked up and blow the problem out of proportion. Next thing is a slew of possibly well meaning but misguided regulations start getting passed.

But enough ranting for the day. Weather is good, going out for a hike and ride.

Trakhak

The importers of cheap electric bikes, scooters, etc., would enthusiastically agree with you, no doubt. But overstating the significance of those battery fires is precisely what's lighting a fire under legislators, so to speak. Otherwise, they'd be proceeding with all deliberate speed (old folk here will remember that phrase).

Pop N Wood

Yet the numbers speak for themselves, conspiracy theories about cheap importers aside.

Doc_Wui

We'll be chugging along on sodium-ion or go back to less volatile LiFe packs in a few years, Maybe 2x-3X the volume for the former. I see that 18650 sized sodium cells are available now, and they are 1/2 the capacity of Li-ion.

Smaug1

That's when the lit off in a recent house fire in NYC.

I believe so, but it's hard to know for sure unless one is a fire inspector. The reason I believe so is because of how batteries are certified. First, the cells have to be certified to IEC 61233. They have to have vents so they can safely vent off pressure. They also have CIDs or Current Interrupt Devices. When all else goes wrong in a product and if other protection fails, these are a one-shot protective device that can be heard to pop before the cells explode or light off. They have to survive other tests too. Without passing these standards, the manufacturers would be tempted to cut costs everywhere, including the venting system.

Next, when they're assembled into a battery pack, other tests have to be passed. Some the same, and some more detailed. For example checking that the BMS (battery management system) works properly. The pack has to protect itself under abnormal conditions, such as component faults. What happens when the cheap cells are not certified is that they cut corners here, which eventually causes fires.


Most Tesla fires I've seen are on the open road or sitting parked somewhere. Really not many while charging. So if a Tesla battery, which I assume is made to a high standard due to the liability and Tesla being partnered with Panasonic, catches fire while sitting still, why concentrate on when charging or some xenophobic paranoia about who made the battery cell?[/QUOTE]
Maybe there was a fault with Tesla's BMS so that when someone is heavy on the throttle on a hot day, the battery heat is not adequately controlled? I don't know; I'm not sure this info was ever made public.

Well hey, you're fine to discount it at your own risk. Just try not to burn down anyone ELSE's home. ;-)

Pop N Wood

New Yorkers pose a bigger risk to their neighbors when using a space heater than when recharging an e bike battery.

The only reason I mentioned NYC is that seems to be where the majority of the hysteria is centered. Large metropolitan areas like NYC are the most vulnerable to fires due to the population densities. So the fact battery fires really aren't a huge issue in NYC means it is even less of an issue in the rest of the country.

Your details on certification are interesting but don't answer the question whether they significantly affect the incidence of ebike fires. The certification process is somewhat irrelevant to this conversation.

I honestly want to know whether the risks are significantly more when charging a battery. Would be really nice to see something quantitative. Would be even nicer if people would ask questions rather than trying to shame people into compliance.

Shadco 

Guys like this with recommendations like this are why stiffer regulations need to be enacted very soon.

I am an avid user of lipo batteries for my Ric heli’s, there is no way I would advocate using home made lipo packs for anyone to use for their e-bikes. If you don’t think this stuff is making it into cities and your environment you are in denial. I see these “kitted up” roll your own “bikes” in my area and it isn’t a large city.

How to make your lipo e-bike battery.


How to roll your own 40 mph e-bike kits.

https://electrek.co/2018/10/19/diy-fast-electric-bike/

.

Trakhak

The numbers say nothing at all. Bike Forum's own Bulgie addressed this topic in a post in 1997, back in usenet days, when he noted, wittily, that European manufacturers of bike components had a long tradition of reducing the weight of a given component until, in his words, "The death toll became prohibitive" and they improved the safety of the component, voluntarily or otherwise.

Some people believe the incidence of battery fires has reached the point of warranting increased oversight. You believe it hasn't. Fair enough.

Smaug1

Well why don't you do the research then, instead of just being a perpetual devil's advocate?
As a place to start, you might look into hoverboard fires before and after 3rd party safety certification was required by the US government.

ScottCommutes

After Catherine O'Leary's cow "allegedly" kicked over a candle and started the great Chicago fire of 1871, I don't believe that the city increased regulation of candles, or cows.

To this day, no one really knows who to blame for that fire. At the end of the day, you never know what is going on in your neighbor's barn.

2old

The bottom line (to me) is to use whatever degree of safety seems appropriate to you no matter how high or low the risk and don't respond to individuals who like to argue for argument's sake. BTW, I still look both ways when crossing the street even when I'm in outlying areas.

mschwett 

that's a funny example. chicago's building/fire codes were completely revamped after the 1871 fire, requiring much more masonry and eventually fireproofed steel construction. it was such a significant shift that many communities and businesses were priced out of the reconstruction, or simply disobeyed the rules and got illegal wood buildings built anyway.

so, your example is actually an example of exactly what is happening here - regardless of the actual fault (cow, kitchen fire, extension cord, cheap battery, poorly maintained wiring, etc) new regulations are targeted at the most feasible place to reduce risk. in this case, it's the electric devices themselves. in chicago, it was the buildings, since outlawing cooking or accidents/mistakes was not really feasible.

Pop N Wood

The numbers are the only thing tangible and verifiable.

Being a new industry some regulations may be needed, but regsneed to be based on fact and proportional to the actual problem being solved. There are already people who hate ebikes, post an ebike thread in general cycling and see what I mean. Keep making ebike fires seem like a bigger threat than they are and we risk excessive regulations. Like apartments banning renters with ebikes. Same thing happened to German Shepherds and pit bulls once they got declared dangerous breeds. The pound I volunteer at is inundated with them.

Funny twist on the Ms OLeary's cow. It wasn't the cow that was the problem, but everything around it.