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Breaking spokes.

Old 07-26-19, 01:20 PM
  #26  
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Old 07-30-19, 01:48 PM
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I confess to have had spoke problems in the past. I currently weigh in at 290 lbs. In the past with rather thin section Super Champion rims, the only way to keep spokes from breaking was using 48 spoke wheels. Now with deeper section rims like the Velocity Dyad, I feel just fine with 40 spokes. I also have some older wheels with fairly deep section rims that seem to be hanging in there with 36 spokes, but I prefer 40 just to be sure.



The deep section rim reduces deflection, which reduces the cyclical loading of the spokes, which eventually causes fatigue failure of the spoke.
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Old 08-04-19, 10:33 PM
  #28  
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My wheel survival strategy

I got up to 282lbs and had no trouble with the following rim, spokes, and hub components. I ride every day at least 10 miles but usually more than that. I use Velocity Chukar rims that accommodate up to about 40mm size tires. I use 2mm straight gauge 36 spoke hubs and rims. At my heavier weights I broke spokes on the cassette side of the rear wheel and more especially on 10 speed rear cassettes. I build rear wheels now with 13/14 gauge spokes and have not broken any of these. The spokes always broke at the hub. I have a couple of rear wheels that have straight gauge 2mm spokes that don't seem to break at all. My recumbent has straight gauge 2mm spokes on a 26" wheel and it has never had spoke problems. My problems come with the 700c and 27"x1 1/4" rear wheels. You are on the right track with deep V rims. I believe that 36 hole rims would be fine but it never hurts to have a little extra. Using 13/14 gauge spokes on the cassette side of the rear wheel has solved all my problems from that area. I get the 13/14 gauge spokes from Ebike in San Francisco. Electric bikes put a huge strain on driven wheels and they have solved their problems with heavier rims and spokes. Good luck
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Old 08-05-19, 02:08 PM
  #29  
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My 10 year old Trek came with 24 spoke rear wheels in a paired pattern. Been riding those wheels ever since and never once broke a spoke. I will admit that as a mid Clyde (260lbs/120 kg range at my peak) I am pretty careful checking, truing, and balancing spoke tension because of reading threads like these. I have always been prepared to swap those out for the big old Vuelta's but now I am more believer in making sure tension is balanced and in the sweet spot of the tension charts.

YMMV
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Old 08-10-19, 12:23 PM
  #30  
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Just had yet another wheel built as I again broke spokes. This time I have a tensiometer. The spokes used are steel, double butted spokes. Measured as ~2.05mm in the center and 2.4mm at the neck (the receipt says 2.0g / 13g - headed black). The tool I used is NOT a parktool, so the KG number likely is off. Spoke 1 says 23 - 88.32kg, but the chart my teniometer came with does not give a number for a 2mm spoke. The rim is a sunrim cr18 and the hub a Sturmey Archer RXL-RD5. I know weight is not the issue as the dutch bike I had for a year and a half before it was stolen never once broke a spoke, even though I hauled larger loads with it.

Last edited by harshbarj; 08-10-19 at 12:40 PM.
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Old 08-10-19, 12:44 PM
  #31  
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Tension 140-206 KGF?
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Old 08-10-19, 12:55 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by trailangel
Tension 140-206 KGF?
Unknown. The paperwork that came with my tensiometer does not give a number for many of these entries for a 2.0mm spoke. So I'd look more at the range of the numbers rather than the KGF.

As an example that 206KGF is listed as 90KGF on the paperwork.
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Old 08-10-19, 01:03 PM
  #33  
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206KGF way too high on drive side
90KGF way too low on the drive side.
IMO
Generally would build to about 120KGF on the drive side. Maybe less for that hub.
Wouldn't 2.05mm and 2.4mm be 11/12 gauge?

Last edited by trailangel; 08-10-19 at 01:12 PM.
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Old 08-10-19, 01:24 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by trailangel
206KGF way too high on drive side
90KGF way too low on the drive side.
IMO
Generally would build to about 120KGF on the drive side. Maybe less for that hub.
Wouldn't 2.05mm and 2.4mm be 11/12 gauge?
I'm betting it is in that range. I just measured a single speed chinese made wheel and it's numbers are rather spot on. Even though parktools KGF are too high and again many numbers don't even register on my paperwork for a 2.3mm spoke. This is what you get when you buy a cheep tool. Something that can really only be used against it's own readings.

As for gauge, I have no clue. I only deal with spokes in metric and never in gauge.

Last edited by harshbarj; 08-10-19 at 01:27 PM.
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Old 08-10-19, 04:45 PM
  #35  
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Not to rain on your parade but you should have shelled out the extra for the Park or equivalent tension meter. For what you’ve spent on wheel builds, a quality TM would have been a cheap investment. You’ve already seen a shortfall, but that could be fixed if you have access to a tension meter to calibrate it against.

For what you want to do with your wheels, your spoke tension needs to be up at the high end of what your rim can handle. You want to know with a good degree of confidence that your builder is doing that and that your TM can confirm it. If you can do an inquisitive check with your builder and get them to perhaps show you the tension on the spokes and it’s good, then it just becomes an exercise of going home and checking the tension on those same spokes and recording what your TM reads and sticking with that. Measure the spokes either side of the valve as a good marker.

Dont just blindly adjust tension though, keeping the wheel true means some slight tweaking of those numbers
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Old 08-10-19, 07:01 PM
  #36  
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I don't have much confidence in this new wheel. The CR18 rim is pretty shallow (read: not stiff). The rim flexes a lot, which fatigues the spokes. It's been a while since I built one, but I don't recall it being particularly true from the factory. That explains some of the varying tension readings. The tension variation spoke to spoke is a lot higher than I allow when building wheels.
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Old 08-11-19, 02:57 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by OneIsAllYouNeed
I don't have much confidence in this new wheel. The CR18 rim is pretty shallow (read: not stiff). The rim flexes a lot, which fatigues the spokes. It's been a while since I built one, but I don't recall it being particularly true from the factory. That explains some of the varying tension readings. The tension variation spoke to spoke is a lot higher than I allow when building wheels.
Neither do I. The spokes have quite a bend coming out of the nipple. All the pre-built wheels I have the spokes are straight. All I need is for it to last 2-3 paychecks, which has been my average between rebuilds so far. I just don't think my local wheel builders know how to actually build wheels (outside of racing wheels). This is now my fifth store and the results are the same. At this point I have run out of bikeshops in a reasonable distance.
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Old 08-11-19, 03:29 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Brocephus
Take a look at this wheelset. I just got these in 29" w/ 36 spokes, after getting a set last year in 26" w/ 32 spokes. Rock-solid Ryno-lite rims, with Swiss DT's, and Shimano XT disc-ready hubs (the rims are both disc and V-brake compatible).
They're built right, and the price is right (with their free shipping and 10% coupon, around $170 delivered).
I never heard a single ping or creak out of either set, right out of the box, and they're both straight as an ice-skate blade. I weigh a solid 200#.
I don't think you'll go through a thousand bucks of these in a year !!!!
Sun Rhyno Lite 29er wheel set with Shimano XT disc
Yep, these, in the 36 hole should do the trick... maybe do a stress relieve and set the outside spokes when you get them- read Sheldon Browns wheel building page.
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Old 08-11-19, 03:43 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by harshbarj
Neither do I. The spokes have quite a bend coming out of the nipple. All the pre-built wheels I have the spokes are straight. All I need is for it to last 2-3 paychecks, which has been my average between rebuilds so far. I just don't think my local wheel builders know how to actually build wheels (outside of racing wheels). This is now my fifth store and the results are the same. At this point I have run out of bikeshops in a reasonable distance.
Maybe look for a MTB rim with the same or within 2mm ERD. Then just swap the rim over. Lots stronger and built to take abuse. Pretty sad that you don’t have anyone to rely on in your vicinity.

My road wheels were built by Prowheelbuilder over there in the US back when our $$ was doing well. They’ve only needed an adjustment after about 200km but they’ve been true for thousands of km since. Maybe contact them or some other similar company. They seem to know what they’re doing
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Old 08-11-19, 05:09 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
Yep, these, in the 36 hole should do the trick... maybe do a stress relieve and set the outside spokes when you get them- read Sheldon Browns wheel building page.
I don't believe they need to be messed with, at all, BWW already stress-relieves them. Someone reading a tutorial then grabbing a spoke wrench, is only gonna screw 'em up!
I have two sets of these, and they're both as straight as straight gets, and right out of the box have never made a creak or 'ping' .
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Old 08-11-19, 05:24 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Brocephus
I don't believe they need to be messed with, at all, BWW already stress-relieves them. I have two sets of these, and they're both as straight as straight gets, and right out of the box never made a creak or 'ping' .
I dunno if their pictures on their website are any indication, but those wheels don't have the outside spokes set. There is a distinct curve. No mention of stress relieving on their website, but maybe they do....

Personally, if you have the bucks, Alpine III are the way to go spoke wise. Nice big head end to reduce forces on the hub, a thin middle for some stretch,especially on the NDS and a 2mm thread so standard nipples fit. I've built with Sapim Strong spokes before and getting the tension right on the NDS is nearly impossible without stupid tensions on the DS because they just don't stretch enough to stay tight.
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Old 08-11-19, 05:42 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
.....No mention of stress relieving on their website, but maybe they do.....
You just gotta dig around for a minute

"......all of our wheels are 100% built in house by hand, checked and rechecked for proper spoke tension and wheel trueness. our attention to detail during the build process, from start to finish, makes our wheels superior to any other wheels available. we do little things that make a lasting difference, like seating spoke heads against the hub flanges with our own proprietary tools, so that spoke tension doesn’t dramatically change as soon as you put weight on your new wheels the first time you try them out. we stress relieve the spokes multiple times, to help the spokes seat properly against one another and the hub flanges......."
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Old 08-11-19, 06:12 PM
  #43  
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This thread, totally right

Originally Posted by ExtremeSquared
Honestly, straight gauge x36 should be fine for road/gravel riding under 300lbs if built properly. Most wheel problems are caused by small mechanics making wheels for a rider in their image. This is why a lot of us build our own wheels. Double butted spokes are better, but a lot of people here go for the most expensive bombproof wheel after failures without trying a different builder.
I'm about 250lbs, and my builder is easily 300lbs. Since I switched to having him build wheels for me, I haven't broken a single spoke even with my normal 32H configuration on my steel road bikes. Builder is everything.
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Old 08-12-19, 08:26 AM
  #44  
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I broke spokes in my rear wheel a couple years ago, replaced them and everything seemed to go well up until recently. I noticed my rear wheel started going out of true. Began to true it up only to be surprised to find that some of my spokes were fairly loose for some reason. Tightened them up while truing the wheel and now keeping my fingers crossed. Not sure why they got loose.
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Old 08-21-19, 06:58 PM
  #45  
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As expected. Broke a spoke at the nipple today while on the way to work. I was really hoping it would last a month. I just have to ride it as is as I don't have the money for another rebuild and won't for another month. This is simply ridiculous.
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Old 08-22-19, 07:28 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by harshbarj
As expected. Broke a spoke at the nipple today while on the way to work. I was really hoping it would last a month. I just have to ride it as is as I don't have the money for another rebuild and won't for another month. This is simply ridiculous.
I would say that something just isn't right in regards to your spoke tension. I'd take it to a bike shop and see if they could properly tension the spokes for you. Hopefully that wouldn't cost too much, certainly less than a total rebuild.
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Old 08-22-19, 07:39 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
Yep, these, in the 36 hole should do the trick... maybe do a stress relieve and set the outside spokes when you get them- read Sheldon Browns wheel building page.
Setting the outside spokes after the wheel is built is not a good idea if you don't know what you are doing. The forming of the spoke around the hub is going to effectively lengthen the spoke resulting in a decrease in tension. Ideally, the spoke should be formed to the hub while the wheel is in low tension but doing it later will result in the need to retention the wheel.
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Old 08-22-19, 07:42 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
I broke spokes in my rear wheel a couple years ago, replaced them and everything seemed to go well up until recently. I noticed my rear wheel started going out of true. Began to true it up only to be surprised to find that some of my spokes were fairly loose for some reason. Tightened them up while truing the wheel and now keeping my fingers crossed. Not sure why they got loose.
You should inspect the wheel thoroughly. Having loose spokes and the wheel suddenly being out of true could indicate a rim problem. The rim could be cracking around the spoke holes or it could be cracking along the inside wall between the spoke holes.
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Old 08-22-19, 08:00 AM
  #49  
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What's in your collection of "lightly used" hubs and rims? The next build might be relatively inexpensive.
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Old 08-22-19, 02:06 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by Milton Keynes
I would say that something just isn't right in regards to your spoke tension. I'd take it to a bike shop and see if they could properly tension the spokes for you. Hopefully that wouldn't cost too much, certainly less than a total rebuild.
I have been to them all. None have been able to build a wheel that lasts more than about a month. That's why I am going to start building wheels myself. I don't think the wheelbuilders here are used to building for wide hubs used on utility bikes. Most riders here are of the sporty variety. Very few ride to get places and fewer yet haul cargo with their bikes. I have never had issue with my front wheels and they use standard width hubs. Even though I load up to nearly 50kg (100+ lbs) regularly in my front crate (so weight is not the issue).

I should have posted photos as this wheel also had spokes that took a sharp bend out of the nipple. The rims I am looking at have staggered spoke holes so hopefully they will be pointing in the direction they need to be.
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