Disc brake feel
#1
we be rollin'
Thread Starter
Disc brake feel
I only tried disc brakes in stores by pushing the bikes forward (road & mtn) while pressing on the brake levers. I find the first second seems a little "spongy" and "remote" before the brakes actually starts gripping the disc. While I find when I pull on the brake levers on a rim brake bike, I really like the immediate "clamping" feel.
Has anyone here ever regretted going disc and decided to go back to rim brakes? (And were they mechanical or hydraulic?)
Has anyone here ever regretted going disc and decided to go back to rim brakes? (And were they mechanical or hydraulic?)
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 8,550
Bikes: Wilier Izoard XP (Record);Cinelli Xperience (Force);Specialized Allez (Rival);Bianchi Via Nirone 7 (Centaur); Colnago AC-R Disc;Colnago V1r Limited Edition;De Rosa King 3 Limited(Force 22);DeRosa Merak(Red):Pinarello Dogma 65.1 Hydro(Di2)
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 551 Post(s)
Liked 276 Times
in
144 Posts
#3
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,782
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6844 Post(s)
Liked 736 Times
in
469 Posts
Hydraulic disk brakes typically have more lever travel before they engage.
Rim brakes can be adjusted so that the brake pads are very close to the rim resulting in very little lever travel before the pads actually touch the braking surface.
Disk brakes typically retract the pistons and pads so that it takes more lever travel to engage. This is especially true as the pads wear. Once the pads touch the rotor and the brakes engage however, disks brakes should feel every bit as good as rim brakes.
Personally, I like rim brakes adjusted with minimal lever travel, almost instant engagement, hair trigger. The extra lever travel before engagement is one thing I don't like about disks. It bothers me.
-Tim-
Rim brakes can be adjusted so that the brake pads are very close to the rim resulting in very little lever travel before the pads actually touch the braking surface.
Disk brakes typically retract the pistons and pads so that it takes more lever travel to engage. This is especially true as the pads wear. Once the pads touch the rotor and the brakes engage however, disks brakes should feel every bit as good as rim brakes.
Personally, I like rim brakes adjusted with minimal lever travel, almost instant engagement, hair trigger. The extra lever travel before engagement is one thing I don't like about disks. It bothers me.
-Tim-
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Orange County, CA
Posts: 4,770
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 630 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 369 Times
in
206 Posts
Typically rim brakes have an "on/off" feeling while disk brakes have varying levels of pressure feedback due to their ability to modulate better.
#5
Banned.
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: Mesa, AZ
Posts: 154
Bikes: 1996 Cannondale R900, 2016 Trek Boone, 2005 Giant Yukon
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 584 Post(s)
Liked 66 Times
in
54 Posts
Feel of the brakes can be modified. If you have mechanical, you can adjust the position of the pad to take up any free space. If hydraulic, generally you can set the free stroke to your liking. Also if hydraulic, you want to make sure you have a properly bled system. On both, pad choices will affect the aggressiveness.
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Allen, TX
Posts: 2,624
Bikes: 2021 S-Works Turbo Creo SL, 2020 Specialized Roubaix Expert
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 762 Post(s)
Liked 3,982 Times
in
1,415 Posts
#7
Señor Member
Join Date: Feb 2013
Posts: 5,065
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 648 Post(s)
Liked 291 Times
in
215 Posts
I converted to hydraulic discs on my MTB and I regret not being able to install them on my road bike. My road bike has quite a few thousand kms on it so I am hoping it has a catastrophic failure soon so I have reason to replace it with a gravel or endurance road bike with hydraulic discs.
Disc brakes, esp. modern hydraulics, have superior function in every way, except for maybe when squeezing the levers at the bike shop.
Disc brakes, esp. modern hydraulics, have superior function in every way, except for maybe when squeezing the levers at the bike shop.
Likes For Wilfred Laurier:
#8
FLIR Kitten to 0.05C
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Lincoln, Nebraska
Posts: 5,331
Bikes: Roadie: Seven Axiom Race Ti w/Chorus 11s. CX/Adventure: Carver Gravel Grinder w/ Di2
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2349 Post(s)
Liked 406 Times
in
254 Posts
I only tried disc brakes in stores by pushing the bikes forward (road & mtn) while pressing on the brake levers. I find the first second seems a little "spongy" and "remote" before the brakes actually starts gripping the disc. While I find when I pull on the brake levers on a rim brake bike, I really like the immediate "clamping" feel.
Has anyone here ever regretted going disc and decided to go back to rim brakes? (And were they mechanical or hydraulic?)
Has anyone here ever regretted going disc and decided to go back to rim brakes? (And were they mechanical or hydraulic?)
If disc brakes feel spongy:
A) beware cable pulls, they often feel like this at the low end IMHO.
B) check adjustment.
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Colorado Springs, CO
Posts: 5,962
Bikes: 2015 Charge Plug, 2007 Dahon Boardwalk, 1997 Nishiki Blazer, 1984 Nishiki International, 2006 Felt F65, 1989 Dahon Getaway V
Mentioned: 54 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1359 Post(s)
Liked 1,658 Times
in
822 Posts
I have disks on my drop-bar commuter and cantilever rim brakes on my old roadie and v-brakes on by MTB commuter. All three are cable-operated. I have as little brake pad clearance as I can get on each. The disk and rim road bikes feel pretty much the same with quick and progressive braking response. In my case the roadie rim brakes feel a little spongy at the end and the disks feel more "direct". The disks are more consistent ride to ride, especially in the wet, but the variance in my rim-brake roadie's brakes are not alarming, except in the wet, when they sometimes take a rotation to grab.
My big, heavy MTB-based commuter/utility bike had cantilevers for almost 20 years. But and as me and my hands reached our mid 40s, the big bike was getting difficult to brake well, especially in the wet. So three years ago or so my LBS put V-brakes on for me...with the same pads I had been using. Not the same brand and model...they transferred the same brake pads from the old mechanism to the new.
I knew that V-brakes are often referred to as "digital brakes"...you know either full on or full off with little or no modulation, but I find them to be the most modulation-able brakes of the three. This may be due to the big MTB being 49.5lbs with the old rack, fenders, water bottle and commute backpack. And that's before you add my weight.
All I can say is it is the only one of my three bikes that I can immediately lock up the wheels at any speed, on any downhill...not that I'd want to. And with the big 26x1.85 slicks it wears for spring/summer/fall it stops right now! And yet...it seems to have a wider range of modulation available than the other two bikes.
From testing out various bikes from various stores myself, I'd say you really can't tell how brakes will be until you get on a bike and ride it with your weight on it. And then, you have to make sure the brakes are tuned.
My big, heavy MTB-based commuter/utility bike had cantilevers for almost 20 years. But and as me and my hands reached our mid 40s, the big bike was getting difficult to brake well, especially in the wet. So three years ago or so my LBS put V-brakes on for me...with the same pads I had been using. Not the same brand and model...they transferred the same brake pads from the old mechanism to the new.
I knew that V-brakes are often referred to as "digital brakes"...you know either full on or full off with little or no modulation, but I find them to be the most modulation-able brakes of the three. This may be due to the big MTB being 49.5lbs with the old rack, fenders, water bottle and commute backpack. And that's before you add my weight.
All I can say is it is the only one of my three bikes that I can immediately lock up the wheels at any speed, on any downhill...not that I'd want to. And with the big 26x1.85 slicks it wears for spring/summer/fall it stops right now! And yet...it seems to have a wider range of modulation available than the other two bikes.
From testing out various bikes from various stores myself, I'd say you really can't tell how brakes will be until you get on a bike and ride it with your weight on it. And then, you have to make sure the brakes are tuned.
#10
I am potato.
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 3,073
Bikes: Only precision built, custom high performance elitist machines of the highest caliber. 🍆
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1764 Post(s)
Liked 1,578 Times
in
910 Posts
Disc brakes also take some time to "bed in." So they tend to feel like garbage at the beginning of the very first ride. Then they get progressively better over the next ride or 3 depending on duty cycle & frequency.
After the 3rd ride (50-100th sizable brake application?) at the absolute latest, they should be as good as they are going to get.
What I mean to say: Grandma that rides once a year in Florida versus a motivated and skilled rider having legit full day at the mountain park are going to have vastly different break in periods.
I have a 11% grade 1/2 km hill by my house. Between the beginning of the first trip down & the end of the 3rd there is a noticable change in how well the brakes work.
For the record, all my bikes now have 180mm rotors & Spyke, Spyre, or BB7's. Cheapo Tektro OEM and 160mm rotors tended to fade unacceptably, turn blue & warp.
Road & mountain have different duty cycles. Road discs tend to have more thermal mass than their mountain counter parts owing to long & fast heat accumulating descents. Mountain tends to be quick short hard duty with ample cooling opportunity.
It's so easy to swap things around, I wouldn't think to even consider bike shop brakes at purchase time. Run 'em in your area/terrain/riding style & see if they meet your needs. If not? It's super easy to upgrade.
After the 3rd ride (50-100th sizable brake application?) at the absolute latest, they should be as good as they are going to get.
What I mean to say: Grandma that rides once a year in Florida versus a motivated and skilled rider having legit full day at the mountain park are going to have vastly different break in periods.
I have a 11% grade 1/2 km hill by my house. Between the beginning of the first trip down & the end of the 3rd there is a noticable change in how well the brakes work.
For the record, all my bikes now have 180mm rotors & Spyke, Spyre, or BB7's. Cheapo Tektro OEM and 160mm rotors tended to fade unacceptably, turn blue & warp.
Road & mountain have different duty cycles. Road discs tend to have more thermal mass than their mountain counter parts owing to long & fast heat accumulating descents. Mountain tends to be quick short hard duty with ample cooling opportunity.
It's so easy to swap things around, I wouldn't think to even consider bike shop brakes at purchase time. Run 'em in your area/terrain/riding style & see if they meet your needs. If not? It's super easy to upgrade.
Likes For base2:
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Layton, UT
Posts: 1,606
Bikes: 2011 Bent TW Elegance 2014 Carbon Strada Velomobile
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 626 Post(s)
Liked 701 Times
in
418 Posts
I've had discs on my recumbent since 2011. I love the feel and feedback they give, better, IMO, than the rim brakes on my previous bikes.
I've since put different material on the front and rear discs, which allow a softer braking action on the rear, and I have to pull the lever almost all the way to get the rear to lock up now. The front pads are much more aggressive and stop on a dime. They have the power to lock of the front, I'm sure, but the nice thing about a recumbent is that the low CG allows me to be very aggressive on the front brake and not flip over.
The discs fade a lot less than rim brakes in long descents as well, which was nice when I was living in Seattle.
I've since put different material on the front and rear discs, which allow a softer braking action on the rear, and I have to pull the lever almost all the way to get the rear to lock up now. The front pads are much more aggressive and stop on a dime. They have the power to lock of the front, I'm sure, but the nice thing about a recumbent is that the low CG allows me to be very aggressive on the front brake and not flip over.
The discs fade a lot less than rim brakes in long descents as well, which was nice when I was living in Seattle.
#12
Non omnino gravis
#13
Senior Member
Likes For 3speed:
#15
- Soli Deo Gloria -
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 14,782
Bikes: 2018 Rodriguez Custom Fixed Gear, 2017 Niner RLT 9 RDO, 2015 Bianchi Pista, 2002 Fuji Robaix
Mentioned: 235 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6844 Post(s)
Liked 736 Times
in
469 Posts
Most people on this thread are not addressing what the OP is asking about.
He is talking about lever travel before the pads actually engage the rotors.
He isn't talking about modulation or bedding in or fade or cable pull.
Rim brakes can be adjusted so that the pads are almost touching the rim. You get instantaneous engagement, hair trigger. Disk brakes have a little travel before the pads touch the rotors and start to work. That's what the OP is talking about.
-Tim-
He is talking about lever travel before the pads actually engage the rotors.
He isn't talking about modulation or bedding in or fade or cable pull.
Rim brakes can be adjusted so that the pads are almost touching the rim. You get instantaneous engagement, hair trigger. Disk brakes have a little travel before the pads touch the rotors and start to work. That's what the OP is talking about.
-Tim-
#16
Full Member
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Southern California
Posts: 487
Bikes: Historical: Schwinn Speedster; Schwinn Collegiate; 1981 Ross Gran Tour; 1981 Dawes Atlantis; 1991 Specialized Rockhopper. Current: 1987 Ritchey Ultra; 1987 Centurion Ironman Dave Scott Master; 1992 Specialized Stumpjumper FS
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 207 Post(s)
Liked 178 Times
in
111 Posts
Interesting. On my son's gravel bike with mechanical disks, I noticed that the brakes felt spongy. Was thinking I needed to adjust them, but maybe not. It's the first bike I've had with them.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Lebanon (Liberty Hill), CT
Posts: 8,456
Bikes: CAAD 12, MASI Gran Criterium S, Colnago World Cup CX & Guru steel
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1722 Post(s)
Liked 1,272 Times
in
734 Posts
My 3 road bike have rim brakes and my cross bike has mechanical discs. The feel , progressive nature and overall utility of disc brakes is, IMO, far superior.
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2014
Posts: 3,893
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1062 Post(s)
Liked 665 Times
in
421 Posts
Most people on this thread are not addressing what the OP is asking about.
He is talking about lever travel before the pads actually engage the rotors.
He isn't talking about modulation or bedding in or fade or cable pull.
Rim brakes can be adjusted so that the pads are almost touching the rim. You get instantaneous engagement, hair trigger. Disk brakes have a little travel before the pads touch the rotors and start to work. That's what the OP is talking about.
-Tim-
He is talking about lever travel before the pads actually engage the rotors.
He isn't talking about modulation or bedding in or fade or cable pull.
Rim brakes can be adjusted so that the pads are almost touching the rim. You get instantaneous engagement, hair trigger. Disk brakes have a little travel before the pads touch the rotors and start to work. That's what the OP is talking about.
-Tim-
I prefer calipers, but certainly won't get rid of my disk brake bike. We can take hair-trigger rim brakes for granted because we're fussy about the truth of our wheels. Getting used to any kind of brakes takes about 100 feet of riding, but I'm not at the level of where I need the performance that you probably need.
One thing I've noticed is that beginning riders greatly prefer disk brakes. That's not to say they belong on every kind of bike, but I can appreciate their appeal. They have a feeling of definite-ness.
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 2,257
Bikes: 1964 Legnano Roma Olympiade, 1973 Raleigh Super Course, 1978 Raleigh Super Course, 1978 Peugeot PR10, 2002 Specialized Allez, 2007 Specialized Roubaix, 2013 Culprit Croz Blade
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 741 Post(s)
Liked 817 Times
in
420 Posts
I'm very happy with the TRP Spyre cable discs on my road bike. It came with Di2, carbon rims and disc brakes. I find the whole package very responsive and satisfying to ride. I'm happy with the feel and modulation on the TRPs. I have them set pretty hard, with almost no lever movement of the lever to engage. There are barrel adjusters to set the lever travel and compensate for pad wear. Being a 200 lb. rider, I didn't feel good about rim brakes on carbon rims, and I love my carbon rims, so the discs work great for that application.
I also have several old school rim brake bikes, with Koolstop pads on two of them. The Koolstops give great feel and seem to stop as well as the disc braked modern bike.
I also have several old school rim brake bikes, with Koolstop pads on two of them. The Koolstops give great feel and seem to stop as well as the disc braked modern bike.
#20
we be rollin'
Thread Starter
For what it's worth, I appreciate the comments about the fact that it may be partly due to the brakes not being "broken-in" and adjusting them would make a difference as well.
The comments about disc brakes being far superior sound encouraging except for the fact that the discs can warp. I also read somewhere where someone said they can squeal while biking. (I've heard that at least a couple of times on the bike paths as well.)
But I find it even more encouraging that rim brakes with Koolstop brake pads feel about as good as disc brakes. I have Jagwire brake pads, which someone here called "cheap", but I find them quiet and actually awesome to use.
I'm glad some confirmed what I suspected though. It makes me somewhat hesitant to buy a disc brake bike. But it sounds like the choice of brakes/discs/adjustment would make a significant difference.
The big issue with me though is my top speed rolling around is like 10mph (16km/h). And usually I slow down ahead of red lights etc. So I don't require great stopping power.
The comments about disc brakes being far superior sound encouraging except for the fact that the discs can warp. I also read somewhere where someone said they can squeal while biking. (I've heard that at least a couple of times on the bike paths as well.)
But I find it even more encouraging that rim brakes with Koolstop brake pads feel about as good as disc brakes. I have Jagwire brake pads, which someone here called "cheap", but I find them quiet and actually awesome to use.
I'm glad some confirmed what I suspected though. It makes me somewhat hesitant to buy a disc brake bike. But it sounds like the choice of brakes/discs/adjustment would make a significant difference.
The big issue with me though is my top speed rolling around is like 10mph (16km/h). And usually I slow down ahead of red lights etc. So I don't require great stopping power.
#21
Cycleway town
Rim brakes are absolute dinosaurs in every way, there's no avenue of their use that discs don't cover, why would i ever intentionally go back to rims?
Actually, there's one - rim pads generally last years. Perhaps because they don't really do very much, and they weigh a ton.
Discs then; Feel better, modulate better, grip better, work the same in any terrain or weather, or how much or little you use them.
I'm running a 100 lb (45kg) 2,600w e-tandem with Shimano Zee hydro brakes, semi-metal pads and floating 203mm discs, with repetitive launches and slowdowns of 10-50mph several times a mile, and the brakes are up to the job.
Can you imagine trying to run rim brakes..??!!! Jesus, i'd be in a hedge in the first half mile.
Actually, there's one - rim pads generally last years. Perhaps because they don't really do very much, and they weigh a ton.
Discs then; Feel better, modulate better, grip better, work the same in any terrain or weather, or how much or little you use them.
I'm running a 100 lb (45kg) 2,600w e-tandem with Shimano Zee hydro brakes, semi-metal pads and floating 203mm discs, with repetitive launches and slowdowns of 10-50mph several times a mile, and the brakes are up to the job.
Can you imagine trying to run rim brakes..??!!! Jesus, i'd be in a hedge in the first half mile.
#22
Senior Member
In my experience, mechanicals which move only one pad WILL warp the rotors. They can't help it, it's how they work, deflecting the rotor until it presses against the inside pad. The problem is worse if you like to leave more gap to the inner pad - and it squeals more that way. I haven't had that problem with the newer Spyke/Spyre calipers. Adjust them so the rotor is centered between the two moving pads and nothing gets bent.
#23
Senior Member
The very last concern I have when looking at a bike is the brakes. The ride is everything, every rim brake I've had and tried stopped me.
There were many good observations about disk brakes made here though, thanks all for the comments.
There were many good observations about disk brakes made here though, thanks all for the comments.
#24
Senior Member
That said, and as much as I love disk brakes, it sounds like rim brakes are probably just dandy for your needs. You aren't out bombing hills, zipping through traffic, hauling a lot of gear, etc. Rim brakes are fine for casual cruising along. The Koolstops might even be good for your use. If you aren't braking hard, you aren't going to lock a wheel. They might reduce the pressure you need to apply to the levers.
Last edited by 3speed; 07-27-19 at 06:30 PM.
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,532
Bikes: Working on replacing my stolen Soma Buena Vista Mixte
Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 417 Post(s)
Liked 95 Times
in
44 Posts
Rim brakes are absolute dinosaurs in every way, there's no avenue of their use that discs don't cover, why would i ever intentionally go back to rims?
Actually, there's one - rim pads generally last years. Perhaps because they don't really do very much, and they weigh a ton.
Discs then; Feel better, modulate better, grip better, work the same in any terrain or weather, or how much or little you use them.
I'm running a 100 lb (45kg) 2,600w e-tandem with Shimano Zee hydro brakes, semi-metal pads and floating 203mm discs, with repetitive launches and slowdowns of 10-50mph several times a mile, and the brakes are up to the job.
Can you imagine trying to run rim brakes..??!!! Jesus, i'd be in a hedge in the first half mile.
Actually, there's one - rim pads generally last years. Perhaps because they don't really do very much, and they weigh a ton.
Discs then; Feel better, modulate better, grip better, work the same in any terrain or weather, or how much or little you use them.
I'm running a 100 lb (45kg) 2,600w e-tandem with Shimano Zee hydro brakes, semi-metal pads and floating 203mm discs, with repetitive launches and slowdowns of 10-50mph several times a mile, and the brakes are up to the job.
Can you imagine trying to run rim brakes..??!!! Jesus, i'd be in a hedge in the first half mile.
I can definitely see where the discs would be necessary for this bike. I think there are plenty of other bikes where the increased power wouldn’t be utilized.