Go Back  Bike Forums > The Lounge > Foo
Reload this Page >

Credit Card Debt --- Unbelievable

Notices
Foo Off-Topic chit chat with no general subject.

Credit Card Debt --- Unbelievable

Old 08-15-19, 06:52 AM
  #1  
work4bike
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1160 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Credit Card Debt --- Unbelievable

I heard on the news last night that American's credit card debt increased by 20-billion dollars in the last four months and is nearly a trillion dollars. That's incredible

Last I heard about credit card debt was during the Great Recession of 2008. I would think people would have learned not to incur so much debt, especially one that comes with a heavy interest rate.


What's wrong with people? I use it, then pay it off IMMEDIATELY. Why's that concept so hard for people to get....


https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-credit-card-debt




.
work4bike is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 06:57 AM
  #2  
Lemond1985
Sophomore Member
 
Lemond1985's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2019
Posts: 1,647
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 936 Post(s)
Liked 248 Times in 179 Posts
Total Student Loan debt is even higher, and can't be discharged in bankruptcy like CC debt can easily be.

A while back, American Express stopped letting me use my card because I did not have a physical address. Why that matters to them, i will never know. So I started using my debit cards, and spending within my limits. Thanks AMEX, for showing me how easily I can get by without your product.
Lemond1985 is offline  
Likes For Lemond1985:
Old 08-15-19, 06:57 AM
  #3  
bigbenaugust 
always rides with luggage
 
bigbenaugust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: KIGX
Posts: 2,106

Bikes: 2007 Trek SU100, 2009 Fantom CX, 2012 Fantom Cross Uno, Bakfiets

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 263 Post(s)
Liked 9 Times in 9 Posts
Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
I heard on the news last night that American's credit card debt increased by 20-billion dollars in the last four months and is nearly a trillion dollars. That's incredible
Last I heard about credit card debt was during the Great Recession of 2008. I would think people would have learned not to incur so much debt, especially one that comes with a heavy interest rate.
What's wrong with people? I use it, then pay it off IMMEDIATELY. Why's that concept so hard for people to get....
https://www.valuepenguin.com/average-credit-card-debt
.
I do too. People have short memories.
__________________
--Ben
2006 Trek SU100, 2009 Motobecane Fantom CX, 2011 Motobecane Fantom Cross Uno, and a Bakfiets
Previously: 2000 Trek 4500 (2000-2003), 2003 Novara Randonee (2003-2006), 2003 Giant Rainier (2003-2008), 2005 Xootr Swift (2005-2007), 2007 Nashbar 1x9 (2007-2011), 2011 Windsor Shetland (2011-2014), 2008 Citizen Folder (2015)
Non-Bike hardware: MX Linux / BunsenLabs Linux / Raspbian / Mac OS 10.6 / Android 7
bigbenaugust is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 07:02 AM
  #4  
TakingMyTime
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: Los Alamitos, Calif.
Posts: 1,371

Bikes: Trek 7.4 FX, 5200 & 7700

Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Liked 52 Times in 29 Posts
People that understand Interest, earn it. People who don't... pay it.
TakingMyTime is offline  
Likes For TakingMyTime:
Old 08-15-19, 07:19 AM
  #5  
Hondo Gravel
The water is on fire
 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Hondo,Texas
Posts: 1,104

Bikes: Too many Motobecanes

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 576 Post(s)
Liked 127 Times in 100 Posts
If are not in debt you need therapy This young married couple was staying in an old wealthy widow’s guesthouse for free in exchange that they kept up the grounds. The husband said one weekend a month fixing household things was about all it took. Her parents wanted her to divorce him. His parents wanted him in therapy. All because they were debt free and was saving money. After 13 years they decided to move on so they bought a 400K house with cash and a few nice vehicles and were set. Never being in debt.
Hondo Gravel is offline  
Likes For Hondo Gravel:
Old 08-15-19, 07:33 AM
  #6  
FiftySix
where's the gas tank?
 
FiftySix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 727

Bikes: Norco CityGlide, Schwinn Willy

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Liked 178 Times in 137 Posts
The thing that makes my credit cards shiver is if one of us has to go to the hospital. Other than that, the only thing we currently owe money on is our mortgage.
FiftySix is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 08:40 AM
  #7  
ldmataya 
Senior Member
 
ldmataya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Mt. Horeb, Wisconsin
Posts: 502
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 4 Posts
Keep in mind you can usually tell any story you want to with statistics. So If I want to paint a gloom-and-doom, I use the absolute credit numbers. But if I express debt as a percentage of income, the picture looks a lot better. It gets even better if I express debt per capita. Here the story is really interesting. If you live in California, Colorado, or Hawaii, debt per capita says the world is ending (housing). but if you live in Wisconsin things are better than well before the 2008 financial crisis. If I express debt as a percentage of personal savings - better because we are saving at the highest rate since 2012. To really figure out what is going on, we look at real incomes, unemployment, and the rate people are NOT paying back their debt, by type of debt. Credit cards are no worse than well before the financial crisis, student loans are bad, and people are just starting to default a bit more than typical on their auto loans. I think that is because new car sales are no longer growing and folks are getting pushed into more expensive cars. Etc...
ldmataya is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 08:55 AM
  #8  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 22,731
Mentioned: 176 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8915 Post(s)
Liked 138 Times in 115 Posts
Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
I heard on the news last night that American's credit card debt increased by 20-billion dollars in the last four months and is nearly a trillion dollars. That's incredible
So the people have some catching up to do to get to the US Government's credit card debt. Time to cut up the government credit cards?

$22 Trillion

Add State and Local goverment debt at about $1.84 Trillion.

It is hard to say how so many individuals get into credit card debt problems. There are some tremendous introductory offers.

0% interest for a year. Then seemingly low interest until one misses a payment, then it becomes outrageous.

Companies just push credit cards at people. Free perks???

Of course, for some, the credit card debt is simply revolving credit. Pay it off. Get the perks, and start all over again.
CliffordK is offline  
Likes For CliffordK:
Old 08-15-19, 09:07 AM
  #9  
Riveting
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 504

Bikes: '13 Trek Madone 2.3, '13 Diamondback Hybrid Commuter, '17 Spec Roubaix Di2, '17 Spec Camber 29'er

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 181 Post(s)
Liked 34 Times in 23 Posts
Originally Posted by work4bike View Post
I heard on the news last night that American's credit card debt increased by 20-billion dollars in the last four months and is nearly a trillion dollars. That's incredible.
Why is that so incredible to you? My math shows that's about $11,900 per adult (252M adults) which is pretty low compared to their student loan, car loan, or home mortgage.
Riveting is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 09:20 AM
  #10  
mconlonx 
Str*t*gic *quivoc*tor
 
mconlonx's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,553
Mentioned: 45 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7004 Post(s)
Liked 42 Times in 31 Posts
We got credit card debt. Plenty of it. We did a great job paying cards off on a monthly basis, staying within our means, right up until a lengthy and hard-fought divorce, where her ex's lawyer put a lien on the house against payment. Scumbag move, but apparently legal, which left us without a lot of financial room to maneuver. So we paid a lot of legal fees and the eventual settlement with plastic. We're 1 year into a 3 year plan to pay everything off and still basically on track. *shrug* CCs are convenient and useful in emergency situations, but we are both hating the interest we pay at the moment...
__________________
I know next to nothing. I am frequently wrong.
mconlonx is offline  
Likes For mconlonx:
Old 08-15-19, 09:43 AM
  #11  
CliffordK
Senior Member
 
CliffordK's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Eugene, Oregon, USA
Posts: 22,731
Mentioned: 176 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8915 Post(s)
Liked 138 Times in 115 Posts
Originally Posted by mconlonx View Post
We got credit card debt. Plenty of it. We did a great job paying cards off on a monthly basis, staying within our means, right up until a lengthy and hard-fought divorce, where her ex's lawyer put a lien on the house against payment. Scumbag move, but apparently legal, which left us without a lot of financial room to maneuver. So we paid a lot of legal fees and the eventual settlement with plastic. We're 1 year into a 3 year plan to pay everything off and still basically on track. *shrug* CCs are convenient and useful in emergency situations, but we are both hating the interest we pay at the moment...
My brother is winding down on a bitter divorce battle (hopefully).

The real winners will be the lawyers. Although, I'm not sure the ex's lawyers will have the legal rights to mortgage the house. Or, if they do, there may not be any requirement for immediate payment.
CliffordK is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 11:31 AM
  #12  
bikecrate
Senior Member
 
bikecrate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: LF, APMAT
Posts: 2,274
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 445 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 14 Times in 14 Posts
First, I doubt most people are taught the basics of home finances.

Second, the cost of the "American dream" (whatever that is) has gone up without a rise in wages to the same level. Food, housing, cars, education etc. seem more expensive.

Third, there is a lot of pressure to "keep up with the Jones", so people spend money they don't have for appearances.

Forth, most Americans don't have much money saved, so any financial setback is likely to spark a crisis.

Personally, I have had to carry debt at certain points in my life. My wife and I tackled it by paying off the highest interest rate item first, then snowballing that payment into the next piece of debt and so on. That was many years ago. These days the credit card gets paid off immediately, I have no car payments and the mortgage is paid off. It has worked out so well that we were able to buy our future retirement home now. It will be 2/3 paid off by the time we retire.
bikecrate is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 12:39 PM
  #13  
AlmostTrick
Tortoise Wins by a Hare!
 
AlmostTrick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Looney Tunes, IL
Posts: 6,551

Bikes: Wabi Special FG, Raleigh Roper, Nashbar AL-1, Miyata One Hundred, '68 Schwinn Orange Krate, and More!!

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1119 Post(s)
Liked 153 Times in 94 Posts
My favorite write up regarding CC debt:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012...-an-emergency/
AlmostTrick is offline  
Likes For AlmostTrick:
Old 08-15-19, 12:43 PM
  #14  
indyfabz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 23,149
Mentioned: 172 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9048 Post(s)
Liked 674 Times in 414 Posts
I'm 54. It may have happened once or twice intentionally (as opposed to mailing in my bill late), but I cannot remember ever paying CC finance charges. I also paid off my $24K in student loan debt within a couple of years of finishing professional school. On the subject of student loan borrowing, I knew several people in my law school class who borrowed more money than they needed to in order to finance what I considered luxuries. Nice apartments, cars, cable TV. I lived in an efficiency and didn't have a car or a TV.

I currently own my own home and have no debt except a small balance left on a 0% interest auto loan which will be paid off in 11 months. It was for the second car I ever bought in my life.

I do realize that many, many people can be frugal yet still end up with unexpected expenses. When you fridge suddenly dies or your roof needs replacing, some people need to go into debt. I believe medical bills are the leading cause of individual bankruptcy filings.

But with that said, I firmly believe that the standard of living many (if not most) people feel they are entitled to has outstripped means. My mom grew up in a two parent, 6 children home with three bedrooms and one bath. How many people today would slit their wrists if they were forced to share a bathroom? My four and then three person household growing up had only one bathroom. (At least my sister and I did not have to share a bedroom.) Multiple cars? My mom sold our one car when I started college. At max we had one medium size TV and one portable one. Some people have TVs in damn near every room even thought they are not wealthy. I know plenty of people who make a good amount less than I do yet have more material possessions and live more lavish lifestyles than I do. They must be financing it with debt and/or not saving.

BTW...OBTL/M
indyfabz is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 01:14 PM
  #15  
Phamilton
Virgo
 
Phamilton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: KFWA
Posts: 1,120

Bikes: A touring bike and a hybrid

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 402 Post(s)
Liked 41 Times in 31 Posts
37 years old, never had a credit card. I have some medical bill debt, but that's it. No mortgage, no loans, no cards. Cash only. Not much savings, but at least no debt.

I think I have more of a social disconnect because of that than because I bike instead of drive, or even possibly my political/social/religious views.
Phamilton is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 02:51 PM
  #16  
spinnaker
Every day a winding road
 
spinnaker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Posts: 6,540

Bikes: 2005 Cannondale SR500, 2008 Trek 7.3 FX, Jamis Aurora

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3388 Post(s)
Liked 59 Times in 42 Posts
Everyone wants everything now.

I see this commercial all the time where they suggest a loan for a vacation. . A loan for a vacation? You have to be insane. If you need to get a loan for something like that then you should not go. If you need to get away then pack up the car with camping gear and get out for a weekend. That us what we did when I was a kid. We didn't even have a car till I was 10 or so. It was the same car I got my drivers test in over 6 years latter.

I also read that the average car loan is now $530 a month. That us insane too. People buy too much car too often. They don't have the old one paid off so they roll the old balance into the new.


IMHO, you should NEVER be forgiven for debt except in the only extreme of circumstances. You should not be hounded every day but the debt still needs to remain. You bought it, you need to pay of it.
spinnaker is offline  
Likes For spinnaker:
Old 08-15-19, 03:15 PM
  #17  
clemsongirl 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: california
Posts: 140
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 212 Post(s)
Liked 191 Times in 78 Posts
i always make sure i have the money to buy what i want so paying off a credit card purchase is easy. i also save a lot of my income, which because of my choices in education and my work ethic, is easy too and more importantly gives me a sense of freedom. living beyond one's means is something that i don't understand especially when it causes high interest debt.

i use a business card that i keep the perks on, mostly airline miles/amenities, hotel points/amenities and i also have united premier status with it’s travel extras. that card is payed off each month by the company. I mostly just use a debit card that’s connected to an interest checking. i also use a credit union card that pays 1.75 back if needed for purchases beyond my debit limit and another one that eliminates sales tax on photo equipment from a n.y. store for large purchases of camera’s and lenses and i pay both off before they're due and neither have any fees.
__________________
"The negative feelings we all have can be addictive…just as the positive…it’s up to
us to decide which ones we want to choose and feed”… Pema Chodron

Last edited by clemsongirl; 08-20-19 at 01:45 PM.
clemsongirl is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 03:50 PM
  #18  
KraneXL
 
KraneXL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 3,368

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3038 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 90 Posts
I went through the phase. Mine was out of control with no solution in sight. I finally used a free debt management service and eventually (it took years) got it under control. I'm now happy to say I'm past that stage, and the accumulation of things no longer interest me.
Originally Posted by Lemond1985 View Post
Total Student Loan debt is even higher, and can't be discharged in bankruptcy like CC debt can easily be.

A while back, American Express stopped letting me use my card because I did not have a physical address. Why that matters to them, i will never know. So I started using my debit cards, and spending within my limits. Thanks AMEX, for showing me how easily I can get by without your product.
Till death do you part. Not even marriage is that stringent anymore.
KraneXL is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 05:26 PM
  #19  
no motor?
Senior Member
 
no motor?'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Chicagoland
Posts: 6,143

Bikes: Specialized Hardrock

Mentioned: 27 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1016 Post(s)
Liked 101 Times in 74 Posts
My exwife and I applied for a gas station credit card and went to refinance our house after living there for 5 years (which was advice given to us when we bought the house). The gas station turned us down because she'd mailed all our bills without stamps a couple of months prior. The banker approved us quickly and got us a home equity loan at the same time after asking us where our debt was. He was a little surprised when we referred to our mortgage. That was more than enough debt for us but way way way less than the average customer at the bank and he was surprised we didn't have any outstanding debt beyond our mortgage.
no motor? is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 05:52 PM
  #20  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 8,643

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Moto Fantom29 ProSL hardtail

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 74 Posts
Originally Posted by ldmataya View Post
It gets even better if I express debt per capita. Here the story is really interesting. If you live in California, Colorado, or Hawaii, debt per capita says the world is ending (housing).
? Is that gross personal debt because of large mortgages? Or are you talking large net debt because of underwater mortgages? I have a large mortgage by national standards, but if you count the value of my house as an asset (which mortgage lenders certainly do), I have a LOT of equity and am not in debt at all.
RubeRad is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 05:53 PM
  #21  
RubeRad
Keepin it Wheel
 
RubeRad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: San Diego
Posts: 8,643

Bikes: Surly CrossCheck, Moto Fantom29 ProSL hardtail

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13 Post(s)
Liked 97 Times in 74 Posts
I think there's a high correlation between BFers, cyclists, anti-car-ists, and less consumeristic attitudes and lifestyles. So most of us will have our spending under control and no credit card debt, and will be horrified by the national trend.
RubeRad is offline  
Likes For RubeRad:
Old 08-15-19, 06:19 PM
  #22  
EJ123
djentleman
 
EJ123's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,371
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 21 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Oh man I love credit cards. Have gotten 6 in the last year with no change in credit score. I pay off the statement balance every month (usually immediately after spending) and have accumulated 90k Chase Ultimate Reward points (Freedom + Sapphire Reserve), 70k World of Hyatt points (WOH card), $500 in cash-back match (Discover It), 116k Marriott Bonboy points (Amex bonvoy brilliant), $550 in cash other cash back and despite the annual fees (Chase Sapphire Reserve/CSR, AMEX Bonvoy Brilliant, WOH card) I still end up in the waaay net positive since the annual fees are offset by the free nights (WOH/marriott cards) and the points from the CSR easily make up for their fee. I have since stopped with new cards in the event of buying a house or lease a used car in the next 2+ years when the hard inquiries fall off the credit reports. If you can't afford to pay off credit card debt any month, then it's a dangerous game these banking sharks and advertisers exploit.
EJ123 is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 06:26 PM
  #23  
bobwysiwyg 
Senior Member
 
bobwysiwyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: 961' 42.28° N, 83.78° W (A2)
Posts: 1,853

Bikes: Mongoose Selous, Trek DS

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 686 Post(s)
Liked 39 Times in 32 Posts
Originally Posted by TakingMyTime View Post
People that understand Interest, earn it. People who don't... pay it.
Bingo!
Likewise tariffs. If the business eats them, shareholders suffer. If they are passed along to the consumer, prices increase and "we" pay them, don't listen to any other attempt to explain them away.
__________________
"Skepticism is the first step in critical thinking." -- Me

Last edited by bobwysiwyg; 08-15-19 at 06:33 PM.
bobwysiwyg is offline  
Old 08-15-19, 10:08 PM
  #24  
Rage
Space Ghost
 
Rage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Location: NYC
Posts: 66

Bikes: Gary Fisher Big Sur, Iro Mark V, Bridgestone RB-1, Bridgestone 400, Fuji Connoisseur, Fuji Club, KHS Winner, Scott Speedster, Jamis Eureka, GT idrive race, a bunch more

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 7 Times in 6 Posts
A friend of mine owes 420k on a house worth significantly less. He inherited the house, fixed it up for 70k and then took out an additional 350 on top of the original home equity loan.
He and his now ex-wife spent every dime somehow. No clue how they did that as they really don’t live large or anything. This was in 2005/2006.

Subsequently, the wife leaves him. The divorce savages him and he stops paying the mortgage. He goes a couple years before looming foreclosure forces him to start paying in dribs and drabs.
This cycle repeats itself a couple times until we find ourselves in the present day with my friend trying to sell the house for what he owes on it.

He went from having a ton of equity to no equity at all.

He’s now in a relationship with someone else. He and the new gf moved into a new place together about a year ago. Right after putting the aforementioned house on the market. No takers, though, considering a wet basement which even the installation of French drains could not alleviate and an easement that runs through a full twenty percent of the property.

Anyway, he’s now talking about using his gf’s credit to buy another house for eight hundred grand.
He’s just completely insane, am I right?

Last edited by Rage; 08-16-19 at 10:33 AM.
Rage is offline  
Old 08-16-19, 04:44 AM
  #25  
work4bike
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
work4bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Atlantic Beach Florida
Posts: 1,176
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1160 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times in 3 Posts
Originally Posted by AlmostTrick View Post
My favorite write up regarding CC debt:

https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012...-an-emergency/
That is a good link!!
work4bike is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.