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Neck pain, fit judgement

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Neck pain, fit judgement

Old 05-19-20, 02:01 PM
  #26  
RedBullFiXX
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This doesn't look anything like a relaxed position to hold for a long climb
You appear do have a death grip on the bars to maintain this position
Can you balance on the saddle without hand pressure ?

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Old 05-19-20, 02:22 PM
  #27  
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Judging by the handlebar pictures and stem it looks like you are too crammed inside the frame . Looks like you may tilt the handlebar forward a little so the bar ends point to rear brake caliper (should be between the seat clamp and rear drop out), then adjust the shifters. Looks like brakes/shifters should go forward and the bar should come up. Even if the bike will be set up correctly it still does not guarantee that you will not have neck issues.
I recommend looking to the saddle height and tilt(very important) positions . If the tilt of the saddle is not correct you will push with your hands on the bars, locking elbows at times and causing neck/shoulder pain. Try to set up your saddle even or slightly nose up and see how it is.

Once you figure out the bar and saddle position I would pay attention how you sit on the bike, make sure you do not have a death grip on the bars and shoulders are relaxed and elbows not locked.
If you still have pain I would work on your core strength ...

Try to sit on the bike on the trainer and pedal without touching the bar without sliding off the saddle. If you slide from the saddle-adjust the it. Your hands should be slightly resting on the bars/shifters to ride without neck pain.
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Old 05-19-20, 02:45 PM
  #28  
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That handlebar position looks horribly uncomfortable to me.
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Old 05-19-20, 09:06 PM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
PoorInRichfield is correct. Those shifters are not installed properly. They are on the tops of the bars. They should be about two inches down from where they are with the bar rotated back up.
That's what I thought the first time I looked. Looking more closely, these bars definitely have aero tops and this is their intended installation angle, weird as it may seem. These seem to me to be very odd bars - I can't imagine what their intended use is.

The OP's position and hand use on the hoods is the trad hand position, except that back then the hoods weren't nearly so comfortable. Nonetheless, racers managed fine. The deal was that back then frames were larger and to get our now natural hip angle when on the hoods, the hoods had to be way down where his are. Back then, drop bars had a lot more drop than they have now that frames are smaller with shorter head tubes and we use the hoods much more than the drops

He's riding what's a fairly modern carbon racing frame, just 30 years old. It's a little too small for him. He needs new bars, compact bars because of the frame size, and a longer stem - that's an incredibly short stem he's got on there. And it does NOT matter what the bar ends point to. Bars have all sorts of different bends now.
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Old 05-20-20, 12:53 AM
  #30  
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Are you sure that is a size 58 frame? It looks smaller to me.
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Old 05-20-20, 07:45 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Are you sure that is a size 58 frame? It looks smaller to me.
IIRC, those older Treks tended to fit small. A 58 Trek was comparable to a 56 in just about everything else.
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Old 05-21-20, 07:52 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Are you sure that is a size 58 frame? It looks smaller to me.
Yeah ... its a size 58... I have a 80 mm stem on it though because I thought it would relieve my neck pain if I decreased reach. The bike comes with a 110 mm which was admittedly a stretch and the 100 mm felt ok but only with the saddle way forward and lower than I like. Perhaps 90 mm was my proper position +- more angle up to increase stack. It seems from you guys' comments my position is all messed up. I contacted a local bike fitter but they're not taking appointments because of COVID which is understandable. Interestingly I first noticed my pains after switching to a short saddle. Do you guys know if that could've had anything to do with it or is it just a coincidence. I have played a lot with saddle tilt and position without relief. I might just try and find the old saddle and put it on just as a last resort.

Since the handlebar seems the biggest point of contention. It is the Profile Design Dromo Pro : https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126176668
Wonder if anyone here has had luck setting this one up in the past. I believe a lot of their products are made to take aerobars on top.
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Old 05-21-20, 08:17 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
I contacted a local bike fitter but they're not taking appointments because of COVID which is understandable.
I recently stumbled across a local fitter doing online fittings via Zoom. You could check around your area for someone offering the same.
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Old 05-21-20, 08:20 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I recently stumbled across a local fitter doing online fittings via Zoom. You could check around your area for someone offering the same.
Guess if it's zoom it wouldn't have to be my area 😂... How did they go about it? Did you feel like it made a difference? Do you have the name or link? How much did it cost?
I'm kinda reluctant about the zoom approach though ... Feels to me like a proper fit would need measurements etc no?
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Old 05-21-20, 08:43 PM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
Guess if it's zoom it wouldn't have to be my area 😂... How did they go about it? Did you feel like it made a difference? Do you have the name or link? How much did it cost?
I'm kinda reluctant about the zoom approach though ... Feels to me like a proper fit would need measurements etc no?
I don't have any first hand experience with this fitter, but he seems to have a very good reputation. I don't know how he does the online fit. His rates appear to be pretty much in line with other fitters in this area. Link: IOG Bike Fit and Consulting
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Old 05-22-20, 07:50 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
Since the handlebar seems the biggest point of contention. It is the Profile Design Dromo Pro : https://www.modernbike.com/product-2126176668
Wonder if anyone here has had luck setting this one up in the past. I believe a lot of their products are made to take aerobars on top.
I have no idea what Profile Design was thinking when they made those bars... and they weren't cheap when new! They don't look very aero on top. They must be a really old design... I had a pair of bars on my Trek 5200 that had the odd "lump" in the drops which I found to be really uncomfortable.

If that were my bike, I'd replace the bars with some modern-shaped aluminum compact bars, likely used as you'll save a lot and not lose anything by going used, and put the Profile bars on eBay to recoup costs. Maybe someone out there would like those funky shaped bars since they are carbon. (BTW, pros typically ride aluminum bars as there's very little advantage to carbon bars.)

I'd avoid doing anything with the seat until you have the handlebar situation corrected. If you change too much too soon, it'll be hard to know what worked and what didn't.
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Old 05-22-20, 08:18 AM
  #37  
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Straight back, and hinge at the hips. You're a thin guy. You should be able to do that, but I'm not seeing it. I'm seeing hinging in the back at the first dotted white section on the rear of the jersey. It's not hard. Sit in a chair with your various joint angles at 90ish degrees. Upper legs and upper arms should be around parallel to the floor. Lower legs, torso and lower arms should be vertical and at right angles to the other stuff. Now hinge at the hips and lower yourself into what would be a riding position keeping your back straight. Now do the same for your lower arms and lower them onto what would be imaginary hoods. There you go. That is the feeling of what your riding position should be. Make adjustments from there. Of course when you correct this, you will find out you need a longer stem or a bigger bike. As for neck pain, I have the annoying habit(like Chris Froome) of constantly switching between looking down the road and looking at my front hub. I make it worse by going from the front hub to the crank/BB area the to the rear cluster area and repeating the whole process over and over. It does cause neck pain on long rides. I'm trying to correct it. Maybe you are doing something similar, Constantly checking the areas of the bike.



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Old 05-22-20, 08:34 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by seypat View Post
Now hinge at the hips and lower yourself into what would be a riding position keeping your back straight.
All good advice. If the OP is anything like me, he'll find that super tight hamstrings (and other overly tight muscles and ligaments) keep him from hinging at the hip and cause an arched lower back. I only recently started a daily stretching routine to try and get back to a straight back. Decades of biking w/o stretching and office work has not been kind to my flexibility!
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Old 05-22-20, 10:18 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by PoorInRichfield View Post
I have no idea what Profile Design was thinking when they made those bars... and they weren't cheap when new! They don't look very aero on top. They must be a really old design... I had a pair of bars on my Trek 5200 that had the odd "lump" in the drops which I found to be really uncomfortable.
Bars are like saddles – they make different shapes because people prefer different shapes. Those are my favorite bars when I know I will be spending all my time in the drops, so I use them on my crit bikes. I love the lumps.
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Old 05-25-20, 03:10 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Are you sure that is a size 58 frame? It looks smaller to me.
Its funny ... I contacted a bike fitter online and he was ok helping me with pics ... Replies that the bike is likely too big for me ...
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Old 05-25-20, 03:21 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
Its funny ... I contacted a bike fitter online and he was ok helping me with pics ... Replies that the bike is likely too big for me ...
Very good, hope it works out. (I didn't mean to imply that the bike was the wrong size, only that it looks small for a 58.)
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Old 05-25-20, 03:51 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
Very good, hope it works out. (I didn't mean to imply that the bike was the wrong size, only that it looks small for a 58.)
Not sure his response was helpful as opposed to confusing. If my bike is too big even with an 80 mm stem then probably might as well sell it instead of wasting money on a fit, then replacing it and paying for another fit on a proper sized bike. On the other hand I'm not sure what a smaller bike would be :S I reckon a size 56 with 100mm stem would be similar to my current 58 w an 80 mm. not sure if the alternative is a 54 if I want to have standard 100 mm stems? Im 182 cm tall the whole thing isn't making sense anymore... need to go to someone in person once its possible and see what they say lol
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Old 05-25-20, 05:18 PM
  #43  
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Get rid of those horrible bars. Try something like an easton EC-70 with a short reach and shallow drop, without the ramp down angle that lowers the brake hoods.

Measure the height difference between the saddle and the bars. It would be common to be in the 5-10mm or 2-4 inch range. I'm old and still able to handle a 10cm drop.

I sometimes experience pain between the shoulder blades. The solution is neck strengthening exercises. Clasp your hands behind you head, lower your head, then apply pressure with your hands as you move your head up to a vertical position.
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Old 05-25-20, 05:39 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
Get rid of those horrible bars.
There's nothing wrong with the bars; they just need to be adjusted.
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Old 05-25-20, 07:30 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by DaveSSS View Post
Get rid of those horrible bars. Try something like an easton EC-70 with a short reach and shallow drop, without the ramp down angle that lowers the brake hoods.

Measure the height difference between the saddle and the bars. It would be common to be in the 5-10mm or 2-4 inch range. I'm old and still able to handle a 10cm drop.

I sometimes experience pain between the shoulder blades. The solution is neck strengthening exercises. Clasp your hands behind you head, lower your head, then apply pressure with your hands as you move your head up to a vertical position.
Enough people have pointed at the handlebar that I'm willing to change it. Oddly enough I had a chinese flat top one lying around but I was too weary to try it and put it up on ebay ... someone bought it so won't have time to put it on for a try.

Which should I go for? Im shopping used:

EC-70 40 mm c-c
Disadvantage: I've liked the aero/ flat tops
or
EC-70 aero 42 mm c-c
Disadvantage: A bit wider than my current bar I think

or
FSA Wing Pro Compact aero 40 mm c-c
disadvantage: Aluminum/ weight. But at my level not sure this matters at all.
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Old 05-25-20, 07:31 PM
  #46  
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Didn't see anyone else mention it, but ops seat is a tad too high as well.
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Old 05-25-20, 09:00 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
There's nothing wrong with the bars; they just need to be adjusted.
I think what's been confusing me and others here is that the bars that this frame originally came with are shaped very similarly to the OP's bars, see his link in post 32. It's just that's not how bars are shaped anymore. Those of us who've been riding modern bars are perhaps put off by seeing the old style of hood use, which is really quite dated. Here's a 5000 with the original bars, photo from the Trek website:

As we can see, his current bars aren't much different. It does look uncomfortable, though. His bars are really meant to be adjusted to this angle, as is obvious from their aero tops.

Another interesting thing is that my '00 Trek 5200 came with modern bars with flat ramps, like this used 5000:
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Old 05-25-20, 10:06 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy View Post
I think what's been confusing me and others here is that the bars that this frame originally came with are shaped very similarly to the OP's bars, see his link in post 32. It's just that's not how bars are shaped anymore. Those of us who've been riding modern bars are perhaps put off by seeing the old style of hood use, which is really quite dated. Here's a 5000 with the original bars, photo from the Trek website:

As we can see, his current bars aren't much different. It does look uncomfortable, though. His bars are really meant to be adjusted to this angle, as is obvious from their aero tops.

Another interesting thing is that my '00 Trek 5200 came with modern bars with flat ramps, like this used 5000:
Good point... This is actually my same exact bike here:
https://archive.trekbikes.com/us/en/2004/trek/5000

Still... If people think a flat ramp could get me feeling better on the bike I might give it a try.
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Old 05-25-20, 10:14 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
Good point... This is actually my same exact bike here:
https://archive.trekbikes.com/us/en/2004/trek/5000

Still... If people think a flat ramp could get me feeling better on the bike I might give it a try.
Yes, that's exactly what most of us are saying. Once you have your brifters set up on the new bars, then you can start to mess with position.

OTOH, better show us a closeup side view of your brifter, make sure you won't need to replace them if you go to the different bar shape!! You'll probably have to re-cable to move your brifters up that far anyway. Something to think about.
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Old 05-25-20, 10:53 PM
  #50  
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I often find neck pain is an issue when I've been off the bike; that riding more is the best way to strengthen the muscles. When I am doing a lot of riding, it simply isn't an issue. (Actually a gym I used to go to 30+ years ago had a neck machine that helped me a lot, both cycling and sailboat racing. Cycling is like lying on your stomach with your head over the end of the bed. Sailing hiked out was like doing the same on my back. But the gym got new equipment and pointed out you could really hurt yourself using too much resistance on the old machine, I still miss it.)

Edit: on new handlebars and brake hoods - I don't tape the bars right away. I secure the c able housing with electrical tape and go riding with all the wreches for bars,stem and hoods. Bars don't get taped until I like the setup. That fist tape job is with cloth HB tape because it unwraps and re-wraps nicely so I can still move the levers without a lot of work.

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