Mri G.

Hi everyone!

My partner and I are planning a 6000 mile trip on a tandem bike next year, but neither of us have ever ridden one before. We're also not avid cyclists as the last time we even touched one was over two years ago. Haha.

So I was just wondering what tips you experienced tandem riders had for two newbies? I read somewhere that I, as the person in the back, should just close my eyes to start with... Is that actually a good idea? (I'm horrible at detecting sarcasm...)

Cheers and thanks! (:

Machka 

Rent one! Or borrow one. Somehow acquire one on a temporary basis. You will want to try one before you commit to cycling 10,000 km/6000 miles with one.

It might go easier for you two because neither of you has cycled much, so you don't have expectations and habits ... but on the other hand, it can help to be somewhat experienced.

Rowan and I have put in a lot of cycling on single bicycles, so we do have our own habits. And we also have a tandem ... and have both ridden tandems with others, so we've both got experience on tandems ... and have ridden tandems on long distance events (up to 300 km randonnees) together ... but it's not something we would want to do day after day after day for 10,000 km/6000 miles.

It's not easy.

For one thing, the saddle comfort for the stoker (the person in the back) is about the same as saddle comfort on a trainer (bicycle on device which holds it in place so you can ride it in your basement) ... in other words, it is difficult to get it just right to be comfortable. The reason is that the stoker can't just suddenly coast and stand up to take a break from the saddle when things get really painful. Everything has to be done together. Communication is key.

And climbing hills can be quite a challenge. Tandems aren't particularly designed to go up hills.

And descending can be hair raising. Tandems are designed to descend quickly. You'd want the captain (the person in front) to know what he or she is doing. The stoker has to put a lot of trust in the abilities of the captain.

There's also cornering ... you do want to keep your eyes open so that you've got an idea when you need to lean in order to corner. If either of you has ridden motorcycles, you'll have an idea of what to do. But if not, if you get the lean wrong ... like if the stoker leans the wrong direction, or not enough, or too much, it can be quite a fight for the captain to get the tandem around the corner.

And even things like starting can take some practice.


So rent one and go for a ride ... see how you feel. Go for 2 or 3 rides if you can. And then decide if that's the direction you want to go, or if you'd be more comfortable for that distance on single bicycles.

Rowan

Just to add to what Machka said, fit is absolutely essential for both the captain and stoker, but moreso for the stoker. If you are going to be riding that sort of distance, you will need to be comfortable, and you cannot afford to compromise on the bike when you acquire it. A suspension seatpost for the stoker is something I would put high on the list of requirements.

Further, gearing will be an important consideration, too. Fortunately, rear cogsets are coming out for MTBs with 36 and 40T cogs which might be helpful.

You'll also need to be circumspect in regard to what you carry.

Finally, before you do set out on the official tour, go on some weekend practice trips to ensure that everything you acquire for the trip does actually work, including the bike.

mikebian 

I'd say captain fit is most essential. I was improperly fit on my first tandem and I could never ride it for more than 35 miles without being in pain. When we got our second, properly fit tandem, one of our first rides was a century. I find that I can't move around as much and stretch on a tandem as I can on a single bike, so fit is critical. The stoker compartment has more flexible adjustments and the stoker can move around and stretch a lot easier. I would say stoker comfort is absolutely critical, but stoker fit is generally easier to accomplish once the captain is properly fit on the bike. YMMV, especially if the captain to stoker height ratio falls outside of the averages.

Mri G.

I totally get the whole 'rent it first' thing, but um...we found a good deal online (Dawes Double Edge for about £600) and we kinda got excited and I bought it... >.> lols.

It should be here by Friday so plenty of time to test out kits and we also found someone willing to give us lessons.

We're also both paraglider pilots and when you do turns on tandem, ideally both people turn the same amount at the same time on turns, and my partner used to ride motorbikes as too so hopefully that's a good enough start. He's fitter than I am and knows how to ride a bike much better so he'll have to go up front. Otherwise we'd just crash or the time or never go anywhere because I don't like anything faster than jogging speed... haha. But yeah, I trust him to know what he's doing, especially since he already taught me how to fly and it can't be scarier than launching off a cliff with a low cloudbase.

However, we're under no illusion that this is going to be easy because we're deliberately planning for an expedition (ie: something that tests you physically, mentally, and emotionally) as it's probably going to be our last hurrah before we have to settle down.

Thanks for the tips about the hills, descents, and corners though. There's an old airship nearby that's been converted to a cycling center of sorts so we're going to go try everything out there and then hopefully go on a few small trips around here. We live in a bit of mountainous terrain, so with luck we'll get everything sorted before the big trip.

Mri G.

We've been given a huge list of recommendations of what gear to get, but haven't yet ordered them in a list of importance. Would you say suspension seatpost for the stoker would be up there with comfortable cycling shorts or more towards comfortable handlebars for better blood circulation?

Not sure what our bike will have on the rear cogset count, but will it's a Dawes Double Edge if you happen to know the specs? I have to go to work soon, so don't have time to google it atm, but will definitely do so afterwards.

Thanks. (:

Mri G.

What's the average captain to stoker height ratio? My partner is 5'8" and he'll most likely be in the front because my steering is awful and he actually has some experience with bike gears. I'm 5'1" if you round up. Cheers. (:

Carbonfiberboy 

First thing I'd say is start riding tomorrow, on singles. Kinda doesn't matter how good the bikes are, just something approximately the right size, but start now. Craigslist, whatever. You want to work up to riding 200 miles/week, every week. Do this while you're researching and having that tandem MTB built for you. Fit is critical and the only way to learn about that is to ride a lot. You need a century-every-day saddle and butt to go with it. Clothing, shoes, food, hydration. You have a ton of learning to do. It's like you want to go to the Himalayas, but have never climbed on ice or snow.

The tandem is actually the least of it other than getting the right bike. All my riding buddies can jump on a tandem and ride together anytime they want, with no tandem experience. The trouble couples have with riding a tandem is usually that the captain is an expert rider and the stoker is not or may not have ridden at all. That's a big issue. The other issue couples have is control, fighting over it that is. Which is why a tandem is called a relationship accelerator.

But if you both are riding singles 200 miles/week your issues will be fewer. Many tandem couples I ride with also ride singles to help keep the conditioning even and complete.

JanMM

ONce you start riding your tandem, it will be very helpful to come up with a routine for getting underway from a stop that you ALWAYS follow. (Most of the time, anyway.)
For instance:
1. Captain keeps left or both feet on the ground.
2. Stoker clips into both pedals and moves right crank to 12 noon position.
3. Captain clips in right foot (if not already clipped in) and asks "ready to go?"
4. If the answer is "yes" then off we go, with stoker supplying main power for startup and captain supplying power with right foot first and then with both feet when left foot clipped in.
5. Yippee!!

mikebian 

I was debating how to word that. According to one source I found, the average male height is 5' 10" and the average female height is 5' 4". I think anything within a few inches of that would be about normal. Sizing gets more difficult when you have a 6' 6" captain with a 5' 0" stoker. Or where a captain is taller than the stoker. If you were looking to buy a new bike, none of this would really matter. But if you were looking to buy a used bike, then being closer to the averages increases your odds of finding a bike that will fit you.

I'm 5' 10" and my wife is 5' 3". We basically ride a medium/small frame. My top tube is 54 cm. The rear stoker compartment is standard length to accommodate a Gates drive, but the stoker stem lets you adjust the stoker reach to whatever it needs to be.

Darth Lefty 

Even without a stoker, a tandem feels very strange for the captain. It doesn't turn as much as you expect it to from how much you turn the bars. You can't turn very hard. It's hard to pop the front wheel, probably impossible for an average person to bunny hop. The weird thing for the stoker is not being in control. It's like being on a spin bike where you don't get to decide when the pedals are moving.

You will see a lot of lists of rules for captains and stokers and they're all sort of along the lines of "happy wife, happy life." Like see The Proper Method by Bill McCready, owner of Santana Cycles, Inc.

I didn't get my wife to ride with me much because I got the tandem when it was a good deal, not a good time to ride. She had some chronic problems after her first pregnancy and then soon as she overcame that, she became pregger with twins. I hope we can get back to it some time but not sure if she will make it back on before the kid stoker kit gets installed! We did have some of the usual trouble. She was usually really good about leaning, having ridden on the back of motorcycles, but I sometimes felt I needed to overcome her balance in order to start a turn. She was not so good about pedals. Other than just getting synced up, the way I ride and the way she rides are not the same. At stoplights she would normally ride up to the light pole and hit the crosswalk button, for instance, which is really a nonstarter on a tandem. I once merged us across traffic to a left turn lane and then blew the red arrow in front of an oncoming car... it was safely distant, I thought, but you shouldn't make moves like that if your stoker doesn't like them. We nearly had a wreck as she tried to stop pedaling while I said, "Go go go!" That spent a lot of the trust I'd built up.

zonatandem

Key to any tandem newbie: COMMUNICATE!!!
The pilot (front rider) has to inform the stoker (rear rider) of what he/she is going to do:
Shifting, braking, turning, slowing, coasting, resume pedaling etc.
A little patience goes a long way . . .
Rudy and Kay/zonatandem

Mri G.

Thanks so much for this! Will definitely try these steps and then personalize it if we need to. (:

Mri G.

I'm probably going to be the same way given I already wince at his driving. However, I do actually trust his driving; it's just nervewracking at times. But I've already told him that until we get synchronised, I'm not going on the road because I know how bad I am (there are numerous trails to do around home, so it should be okay. (:

Mri G.

Gotcha. Well, we ordered a secondhand bike after getting the standover measurements off of the seller so thanks for the tip. However, I think there was a bit of miscommunication, but according to our maths it should be okay. Guess we'll just see in a few days time. (:

Darth Lefty 

If you have the money, there's a company in CO that makes tandems that allow either rider to coast. You still need to have the same cadence, though, when you get back around to pedaling. I'd really like to try one but it doesn't seem like it'll ever be in the budget daVinci Designs - Performance Handbuilt Tandem Bicycles | Independent Coasting Drivetrain

Mri G.

We've managed to live in a van together for almost two years, so I think our relationship will survive. Lols, but you're definitely right about travelling being an accelerator for relationships. Wish I would've known that before I dragged some dude off with me around the world after only knowing him for about three months. Though I guess I did end up marrying him, but still. Haha.

And budget is a bit tight this trip so we're going to just have to practice on the tandem we've ordered. Hopefully that way we'll get into a habit of synchronising from the get go. And we'll definitely start training as soon as the bike arrives (should be here by the end of this week). We're currently creating of list of things to do and kit to buy; got any extra advice that we should definitely know?

Cheers. (:

kingston 

@Carbonfiberboy has good advice as usual. Going for a six-thousand mile bike ride without a lot of practice seems like a bad idea to me.

Here's another set of tips for Captain Training

Depends on how tough you are. My stoker has one and says it make as big difference.

Carbonfiberboy 

Volume is as big an issue as weight. We put everything cloth into Sea to Summet eVent compression sacks. One XS bag for laundry or stinky. Waterproof panniers. We keep our complete kit, including pump, spares, tools, etc. to under 50 lbs., everything except what we are wearing. Spare tire, which can be quite light, highly recommended. 4 tubes and a patch kit.

There are a zillion opinions about everything. The Touring forum has threads about ultralight touring which I would certainly look into for a trip like this.

Edit: Google "gdmbr pack list".

Machka 

Yeah ... that's the common way of doing it from what I understand.

We tried that a time or two and it didn't work for us at all, so we do something different.


When you first try the tandem, practice in empty parking lots or on very quiet roads.

And once you get going with it, do an overnight tour with it. Ride the distance you're planning to ride on your big tour each day, and camp overnight a night or two. You don't have much time to work with if you're planning to start in March, so maybe you'll be able to get some overnights in near Christmas.

Machka 

Speaking as a stoker ... I can't move around and stretch at all. Every slight move I make affects everything and can throw us off line. The best I can do is to very slowly sit up a bit more upright as long as I don't sway or do any sudden moves.

But if I want to make an adjustment to my shorts or try to get something out of a jersey pocket or take a photo or anything, I've got to warn Rowan in advance and we've got to do the whole process very cautiously.

I'm also really picky about my fit. My single bicycles are set up just so, and the slightest thing can throw the fit off. For example, I got winter cycling shoes back in July which had a slightly thicker sole and that created all sorts of knee issues.

Now, if we were only riding our tandem for short distances it might not matter as much.

Carbonfiberboy 

I adjust saddle height to suit shoes as we go from summer shoes to winter boots. We manage stoker comfort by Nancy asking for stands whenever she wants. We tell each other when we're making a clothing adjustment or getting a bottle although Nancy has learned there are many things she can do that I can't feel at all if she does them just right. I also have to tell her what I'm doing in advance so she doesn't worry that something has gone seriously wrong with me mentally or physically if the bike should weave about a little. It can be quite terrifying because there's nothing the stoker can do about it if something did go wrong with the captain.

B. Carfree

Way back in 1988 when we bought our first tandem, neither of us had ridden one. We had toured on half-bikes and correctly figured riding a tandem couldn't be all that hard. Once it was built, we took it out on a couple of short rides to get the feel of it and to experience riding it from both perspectives. (It was built so that we could make some adjustments on the roadside and trade seats even though there is an eight inch difference in our heights.) Then we put on the racks and bags and headed out for a couple of 500 mile shakedown tours. Eight weeks later, with no further tandem riding, we were off on a 4000 mile tour of the western mountains (Coast Range, Sierra, Siskiyous, Cascades and Rockies).

Our prior riding experience didn't amount to a hill of beans once we were doing hundred mile days on and off-road on a loaded tandem. As Rudy says above, it's all in communicating and being patient with each other while finding joy in challenges and fatigue. It sounds like you and your partner have that part all worked out, so just get on with it.

I ride stoker (and I'm 6'2"), so the details of our approach will naturally differ from yours. The stoker takes more of a beating than the captain (we're sitting right over the rear wheel) and while I've never used nor wanted a suspension seat post, I would recommend that you use the widest most supple tires you can fit on your bike and keep the pressure just high enough to avoid compression flats or sidewall damage. They may cost more, but this is where the rubber meets the road (and trail) and what you put there can make a huge difference in terms of both comfort and performance.

Have fun. The only right way to do it is the way that works for you at the time.

StephenH

Some people are mashers (pedal slow and strong). Some people are spinners (pedal fast). Either way works unless one of each get on a tandem bicycle, then you have problems.
Some people put their left foot down when stopping. Some people put their right foot down when stopping. Either way works unless you get one of each on a tandem bicycle. If you both normally start off on the same side, great, you can start a tandem just like you do the single bikes. If you both normally start on opposite sides (like I and my stoker do), the stoker clips in with both feet while the captain holds the bike, then she rotates pedals to the right position, I click in with one foot and off we go.
It took me about 1,000 miles before the tandem didn't feel "weird".
For me to stand and pedal while stoker stayed seated was pretty odd at first- you can't flop that bike back and forth when someone's still sitting on it! For stoker to stand while I stayed seated felt pretty odd. Both of us standing- no problem, that was easier than either one staying seated.
I'd suggest a couple of thousand miles on more local riding to get any bugs with tires, tubes, gearing, etc., work out, to get your riding techniques down, etc, before starting off on a trip.
I sweat a lot. And, how to say it, you can get "blowback" on a tandem. My wife says "Ooh, a drop of sweat hit me, icky!" First stoker says, "I've been around sweaty men before." So the moral is there are some issues that might just make riding a tandem unattractive for some people, and hopefully, you don't discover something like that when you're 100 miles into a 6,000 mile ride. Valuing each other helps.
Theoretically, a tandem is faster than single bikes. Well, sometimes that works out and sometimes it doesn't. My philosophy is "I'll pedal however hard I think I should pedal, you pedal however hard you think you should pedal and whatever happens, happens, whether fast or slow." If you have an attitude where each of you think the other should be working harder, you have problems.
Part of the point is to have fun. If you're in the middle of a 24 hour race and the stoker needs pictures of that VW car show, you stop and take pictures of the VW car show.

Rowan

I will suggest something here, picking up the comment about riding on trails. My suggestion is that unless they are almost empty of people on bikes, skates, foot, a dog leash, skateboards, or any other thing, go somewhere else. In addition, if the trails have barriers of any sort at road crossings, forget it.

If you can, seek out a nice big empty car park, or the roads on a weekend around an industrial estate that should be deserted except for the occasional vehicle. You both will need to have the minimal distractions, and PLENTY of room to move around, practising starts, stops, and cornering.

Trails might seem a good idea, but if you have to manoeuvre around unpredictable other users, you as stoker may get very frustrated very quickly with the tenative low-speed movement, and even frequent stopping -- tandems are like big ships and take a bit of space to get around obstacles, such as other people.

There is nothing wrong in stopping on hills and pushing. I suggest that as stoker, you do NOT need to blow a gasket in trying to "keep up" with your captain. I frequently have to say to Machka to ease off her effort a bit, there is no need to go so hard (she has, or had, a tendency to ride hard at the bottom hills and struggle from not very far up).

And if you swap between the tandem and single bikes, be prepared for a really weird feeling as though there is something terrible wrong with your single; the won't be, but it will feel like the headset is kaput, or the wheels are out of true, or something like that. It's just that the motions to maintain balance on each bike are different; your body and mind don't take long to adjust, but it sure is disconcerting at first.

And finally, as I said, you will have to look seriously at your luggage needs. One option might be to invest in a trailer; that is a whole new ballgame, but it depends on how your new tandem does actually "like" being loaded with frame flex being the key point. Wheels also are another very important consideration; do you know what wheels and how many spokes are on the bike?