Kactus

A 1967 P-13 would have eyelets, that changed in 1971. Pastorbob is correct about the seat tube decal being indicative of a later model. Considering the date on the crank, the fact that it is a triple and the decals, is it possible you have a '73 or '74 P-15? What is the serial number (located on the non drive side rear drop-out)?

pastorbobnlnh 

Didn't see @Kactus 's post above until I posted. I do add another data point to consider.
In the '60s the P13s had eyelets. See my former coppertone frame posted earlier. At the time the P10s did not have chrome lugs.

St33lWh33ls

OK Thanks. The reason I asked is that my 70 P13-9 has no eyelets.

St33lWh33ls

Thanks Pastor Bob

Dougbloch 

What a great score and great story! I called several powder coating places last year looking at painting a Mondia with similarly beautiful chrome lug work. None would take the job because they could not guarantee that the lugs would survive the baking process. That led me to a paint shop that gave me an astronomical quote and eventually someone who hand paints frames.

As others have suggested, I cleaned and waxed the frame and was actually quite happy with the results. So I kept it that way. I just did the same with an Atala Record Professional with a lot of patina. While you may opt to paint, I would be suspicious of any powder coating operation that says they can protect your lugs.

jeirvine 

There was a discussion on the Classic Rendezvous list a while back about how to add length to a steerer. The consensus seemed to be to add it to the top, an inch or so, just below the threaded area, cut a step into both sides of the joint, and braze or weld it. That way the stem wedge is below the repaired joint, adding to the strength. it also would save the chrome and paint.

And I'd add my vote to keeping the only-original-once paint, and do some judicious touch ups. Nice bike.

Kactus

The change over was in '70, not '71 as you have noted. You will also notice that the later P-13's do not have brazed on cable guides on the top tube like the earlier ones or the P-10's and P-15's. And in 1972, the fork blades were changed on the P-13's to a more Italian looking profile while the touring models kept the original bend.

gugie 

Concur - not like John needs any backup, his bonafides are undeniable. I've found that slathering on some flux onto the chrome, carefully heating it to remove the paste water, and reapplying a few times to get a nice thick layer will create a barrier between the chrome and air. If it does get scorched a bit you may be able to polish it out. Worth trying to keep the original fork. I know of a place in Santa Ana, CA that will chrome a fork for $75, haven't tried them yet.

Salamandrine 

I dunno, maybe that would work, but I'd feel more comfortable with a new steer tube. Seems like there would be a stress riser at the joint. Perhaps some ambitious engineer type forumite could run an FEA program on that idea.

Anyhow, like I said before it looks like the steer tube simply broke. So +1. It happens, and though it's rare it's possible, kind of like broken chain stays. The owner didn't necessarily do anything wrong. Big rider, 50 years, rough roads, sweat drip, and many thousands of miles. The quill stem system is inherently flawed, even though it usually is good enough. (ducking and running )

Metacortex

Bingo, that bike is most likely a '74 P-15 model. Besides the decals, note that the Kool Lemon color wasn't available in 1967. Another clue is the '73 dated Campy triple crankset plus the 36-46-54T chainrings, which debuted in '73 or '74 (previous P-15s had 36-49-54T rings).

Please post clear pics of the serial numbers on both the frame and fork. From your first post in this topic my guess is you are misreading a C74xx number as C7xxx, not realizing that in 1970 Schwinn changed the Paramount serial number format from a single to a two-digit year number. This would cause you to mistake a 1970s model for a 1967.

RiddleOfSteel

Oh man, this is exactly what I was hoping would happen! Thank you (and the others) for correcting me, and being understanding about it. I do my best to come with as well-researched information as I can, but failed here.

I apologize to all for the confusion. The serial number (which I forgot to post, of all things) is C7416. So, March - 1974 - 16th frame ordered/built of that month.

The decals were inconsistent with other 1967 Paramounts when I did an image search online, which confused me. The crankset could have been replaced after 6 years, but that would be unlikely. The newer serial numbering system plus the color, decals, and components and their dates fits. That and the Nervex lugs, which apparently were not employed for '67.

This bike is more than likely a P-15 due to the triple crankset and upper downtube cable guide for stem shifters (stem shifters!). This Old Ten Speed gallery photo is a (smaller) dead ringer for what my bike originally looked like and was optioned with:



Serial number picture as requested:

qcpmsame 

Still a really neat project bike, one that most of us would happily undertake. Congratulations on getting this bike to restore. And chapeau for taking time to get things straightened out by the resident knowledgeable guys here. Main reason I stick around this forum, that and the free beer.

Bill

RiddleOfSteel

Follow up from talking to R&E Cycles. The replacement of the steerer will harm the chrome and they said they couldn't guarantee to what extent. Since I am set on keeping the original fork (or as much as I can), then I'm fine going with that operation. I did run the partial-steerer-replacement idea by them, mentioning that I understood if they would say no, and they said no as they couldn't offer a warranty on that specific operation (but they would, obviously, on a full steerer replacement).

I will clean, compound, and wax the paint and see what I have to work with. I more than understand and have respect for the only-original-once mentality, and do that sort of thing on all frames that I buy. Heck, I just spent 16+ hours over a few weeks bringing a rust-riddled Super Le Tour 12.2 back to life and the result (with new decals) is spectacular. I'm pretty over the moon about it.

If any of you are familiar with the show Roadkill (started on YouTube, now on Motor Trend on Demand as well), the two guys, very skilled in their own right, work to get an old (usually pre-70s) decent car running and back to their shop or to Alaska and back etc. They are believers in letting the patina be there, getting the cool old car running, seeing if they like it, and then investing more time into it if so. Or just doing small things. The show is a lot of fun, and their ethos is one to consider.

Thank you again, everyone, for your thoughts, insights, and suggestions. I have read them all and considered them! I will be posting pictures of the results of my deep cleaning. And I believe I have some yellow touch-up paint with me...though I may have to go to the auto parts store and pick up some more.

xiaoman1 

In my earlier reply I asked about the possibility of a sleeve with sliver braze...I think that would be better than just beveling and brazing.
JM2C's

Kactus

My '71 had a LOT of paint damage when I received it and it looks pretty decent now (at least from 10 feet). The correct touch-up paint is available here: https://www.hyper-formance.com/paints.htm For the correct match on larger spots it needs to have the silver undercoat done first; this is what makes the Kool Lemon really pop.

I look forward to seeing the process as you go along.

RiddleOfSteel

Thank you for the link! I have bookmarked it on my web browser. I think Ferrari did a similar thing with their FLY Yellow--white primer instead of grey. Gives it the pop. I have silver paint as well.

pastorbobnlnh 

@Kactus on providing the link to the Kool Lemon paint. I was planing to do the same.

@RiddleOfSteel, thanks for receiving our re-dating with grace and appreciation! Can't wait to see how the clean and polish turns out. Kool Lemon is a really neat color and you are fortunate that Hyper-Formance continues to provide the possibility of a near-perfect match. Even if you go the PC route down the road, it would be interesting to see if the PCer can match it.

Happy restoration and welcome to the Paramount club!

One more thought/suggestion: Contact @ftwelder (aka Frank the Welder) and ask if a partial steering tube can be welded in. He is a master welder and welds can be as strong as the original. Obviously this would limit how deep the stem can be inserted, but since this is a 25" frame, you have a lot of room to work with. Maybe even a short internal sleeve can be inserted before welding to provide additional stiffness. This would increase the weight a little, but it would preserve the use of the original fork. If you need Frank's email let me know.

jeirvine 

Builders mentioned in the CR thread who have done steerer lengthening:
Mark Bulgier (Seattle)
Bernie Mikkelsen
Kevin Sayles
Jeff Lyon
Charles Colaric
Jim Merz
Peter Johnson

I feel a little weird cross posting information from the Classic Rendezvous list to here, so I would highly recommend joining the CR list. There is a huge wealth of information there, and searchable archives.

tricky 

@RiddleOfSteel , congrats! Gotta love Bikeworks. Bike nerd heaven... I can't wait to see this out on a road this summer. We'll need to get another ride together with @Dfrost and any other Sea-town area and bikeworks folks. This is Michael, btw. I was at the Polish food ride that Ken organized.

RiddleOfSteel

Thanks, man! Another ride would be good--just hopefully not 35° and raining! We'll see how this one progresses. Ready to go by summer would be neat. If not, I have others in the stable ready or nearly ready to go.

RiddleOfSteel

Thank you, pastorbob! I think I'll really feel part of the club when she (the bike) becomes roadworthy. The drive side decals are the only really good ones. NDS is illegible.

Thank you for the suggestions on steerer lengthening and repairing (and who to contact). I am more than fine with welding (works for everyone else!), and a weight penalty is of no consequence to me, so I'm game for that route..his email would be great. If I wanted a lighter bike, I'd probably just hop on my Peloton, haha. If anything, having a little weight in the bike helps the road feel and quells any jittery-ness caused by the road surface.

I should note that I'd love to keep the stamped serial number on the fork. It is currently 90mm below the bottom-most steerer thread.

RiddleOfSteel

Thank you, jeirvine for these people! CR looks interesting. I'd have to join to try and find the forum as it doesn't look public--at least when viewing from their home page.

I have a good bit of leg work to do, sorting through names--you all have gotten me a good part of the way there. Very appreciative. I think if I can stay local with the work, that would be best as I work the typical M-F (also, hence my evening forum replies).

RiddleOfSteel

Update on the condition of the paint. I cleaned it, compounded it (taking some yellow with me..), and waxed it. Tried to get the best indoor angles I could to show you all, but I picked up a lot of gloss from the barely glossy and really mucky starting point. Next step will be to employ touch up paint and get an idea of how it presents itself at a distance. The remaining yellow is quite the color, and of course the chrome punches above its visual weight.

This post will be three images of paint results from the above procedures. The next post will be of some interesting details, including the serial number stamped into the steerer.

Also, I will be in Portland for the latter part of this weekend and will reply to your posts as quickly as I can once I return!

Complete-ish frameset, looking better than it did, but close-ups will confirm progress.


Is that...a clear reflection perhaps???


Still kind of hard to tell, but the yellow paint on the fork liked the compound and wax a lot. Also, chrooooommmmmeee.

RiddleOfSteel

Anyone know of Turrill's Schwinn Cyclery? Where it once existed? I haven't been able to find out. Perhaps someone with a list of Schwinn stores in 1974?


Also, if anyone perhaps knows a Ronald. W. Cross, I have his bike! I have Photoshopped his social security number (above/after his name) out of the photo for obvious reasons.


The Paramount's serial number, C7416, stamped into the steerer. From the end of the "6" to the first (bottom-most) steerer thread is 90mm, and I'd love to keep that part of the steerer. Since I don't run my stems slammed (or have one of those crazy long Technomic quill stems, steerer lengthening shouldn't impede my ability to insert a normal quill.

Kactus

The paint doesn't look much worse than mine did prior to touch-ups. I think that with some careful work, it may look OK.