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Selling vintage bikes in an over-saturated market

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Selling vintage bikes in an over-saturated market

Old 03-24-17, 08:33 AM
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Bryanjp2
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Selling vintage bikes in an over-saturated market

Hi,

This is just a general questions/discussion. I want to hear what everyone else thinks. I just got into biking about a year ago and I have always had a love for antiques/vintage/classic items. I think that is why I gravitated towards 1970-1980 bikes. Also, things were just made better back then IMO.

I live in Milwaukee, WI and when I look at craigslist I see hundreds of bikes for sale and the majority of them are older, vintage type bikes. I see the same people constantly re-posting daily so their bike selection is at the top of the list. I see a lot of those bikes have been on there for over 6 months. I wonder how these people make either a business out of this or money off of it to fund a hobby? Is it like this in other cities?

I am by no means a bike flipper or seller, but I have been getting into taking bikes apart and putting them back together. I am not looking to make much money at all, but I wonder looking at this how to enter such a saturated market and be able to get rid of things quickly. Obviously, I know I could price it low, but I don't want to lose money on a hobby that I am starting to be interested in. Is it a lose-lose situation and to accept that it is an expensive hobby?

Thanks for the general discussion!
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Old 03-24-17, 08:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Bryanjp2
Hi,

This is just a general questions/discussion. I want to hear what everyone else thinks. I just got into biking about a year ago and I have always had a love for antiques/vintage/classic items. I think that is why I gravitated towards 1970-1980 bikes. Also, things were just made better back then IMO.

I live in Milwaukee, WI and when I look at craigslist I see hundreds of bikes for sale and the majority of them are older, vintage type bikes. I see the same people constantly re-posting daily so their bike selection is at the top of the list. I see a lot of those bikes have been on there for over 6 months. I wonder how these people make either a business out of this or money off of it to fund a hobby? Is it like this in other cities?

I am by no means a bike flipper or seller, but I have been getting into taking bikes apart and putting them back together. I am not looking to make much money at all, but I wonder looking at this how to enter such a saturated market and be able to get rid of things quickly. Obviously, I know I could price it low, but I don't want to lose money on a hobby that I am starting to be interested in. Is it a lose-lose situation and to accept that it is an expensive hobby?

Thanks for the general discussion!
Offer something the other sellers don't have. Whether it be quality, price, or service.

In my experience, buying already "fixed" bikes on craigslist just to fix them more and try to sell them generally doesn't work out. You need to buy the "dirty, beat up" bikes then fix and sell them. For example, the other day I bought a folding Peugeot for ridiculously cheap. It doesn't need much help, probably $10 worth, and I can sell it for twice what I bought it for.

Basically, you're not going to make money being a classic bike flipper on craigslist (unless possibly you work at someplace that allows you to get parts cheap.)

Whenever I pick something up, I'll fix it, ride it for a bit, then sell it, feeling as if I've gotten my money's worth out of it.
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Old 03-24-17, 08:44 AM
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I flip bikes in the Boston area market which is both saturated and pretty busy. I know for a fact that I'm just one of many people doing it here. The key for me so far is that I do price lower, I look at what other people are asking for a similar level bike and I come in 30-70 dollars less. But that's people here asking 170+ for a Schwinn varsity, where as the ones I've sold have been more like 80-110.

I just make sure the bikes I get are priced so that I basically cannot lose money, but I do spent quite a lot of time driving for deals.
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Old 03-24-17, 08:46 AM
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It's not nearly as expensive a hobby as messing with vintage cars, but unless you're very savvy and efficient it's going to be hard to make much money, and that's even if you consider your time as having very little value.

Most of the people who put stuff on CL for months and months aren't doing it as a business, they're just too stubborn to accept that the market is what it is. Or they are in the reselling business, but have a bunch of (non-bike) merchandise they turn over, and are ignorant/greedy when it comes to the few bikes they deal in.

Lots of members here do what you're talking about doing. Most seem to do it because they love it, and to support their own bike buying habit.
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Old 03-24-17, 08:53 AM
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We live in a low price market (frugal German/Polish heritage) and there are a number of regular sellers which makes it hard to compete unless you are picking stuff up dirt cheap. I don't even try and use it move stuff I just want gone. I'm very selective about stuff I pick up. I picked up 3 bikes for free recently, stripped parts off the 2 beaters, donated the rest of them, and will make something off the Koga-Miyata after overhauling and replacing consumables.
Your other option is Ebay to widen your market but that brings about more hassles and shipping.
Time of year also makes a difference in prices and demand. You aren't selling squat in Jan unless it's practically free.
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Old 03-24-17, 08:54 AM
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+1 If you want to make money you need to buy really low and put quite a bit of work into it. Make sure your ads have good photos and be sure to mention if you have repacked all the bearings, etc. That work has value. The other way is to buy high end bikes and part them out, but I don't think that's what this discussion is about.

I generally make a bit of money on sales, but if I calculated an hourly wage it would be paltry. But it's enjoyable, I get an occasional bike out of it, or choice parts, and the wrenching can happen in the company of a tasty beverage and the tunes of choice.
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Old 03-24-17, 09:02 AM
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My personal favorites are when you see a bike listed one day for cheaper, describing it in so-so condition, a fairly decent deal at the price. The next day, the exact same bike is listed again at three times the price, claiming it is in perfect shape, in a different location. Even better, when they don't even bother to take new pics, and just recycle the ones from the original CL posting.

Watched a 531 framed Peugeot go from $75 to $250 once in that exact manner, and a PH10LE go from $100 to $300 recently, very distinctive bar taping gave it away.

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Old 03-24-17, 09:06 AM
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I am not too worried about making much money. I worry if all of a sudden I am losing money!

When I look at the market and constantly see the same bikes over and over again, price anywhere from low to high, it just makes me wonder how hard or easy is it to sell a bike? Are people buying bikes?

For example, I bought a 1980 Fuji Royale for $20. The overall shape of the bike is in good condition, no dents. However, it is pretty rusted and has a good amount of nicks in it. I know I'll put about $50-$75 into (tires, tubes, cable/housing and tape), I would then be comfortable putting it on CL for $120, knowing other Fujis go anywhere from $150-$450 (that I have seen). You would think it would go in a decent amount of time, but then I see bikes that are in way better conditioned that aren't much more expensive, that sit on CL for long periods of time. Just boggles me a little...
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Old 03-24-17, 09:13 AM
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I find that buying entry/mid level road bikes for $40-100, tearing them down, and adding new cables and housing plus tires and tape will then get them sold for $140-220(depending on bike quality). The costs are $20-60 typically(depending on work needed).

In my area, which I hardly consider a mecca for vintage demand, the bikes I refurbish sell relatively quickly. Its a matter of presenting them well and advertising the work done. Good pictures and a detailed but concise writeup helps your bike stand out from all the poorly advertised masses.



I see the Milwaukee listings a lot as I peruse thru Chicagoland and when searching for specifics, Milwaukee comes up for options outside the area. There are a lot of sellers relisting the same bikes for months and months, just like everywhere else. One guy has a steady stream of large frame road bikes which change thru the seasons, but they are always the same drab pics and poor information.

Bright pics with detail of the components and frame does wonders to stand out.
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Old 03-24-17, 09:15 AM
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Its very hard to make money flipping bikes most of the time, imo. I think it comes down to how valuable you consider your time and effort. The market for used bikes these days is generally very good for buyers, very poor for sellers.
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Old 03-24-17, 09:28 AM
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I am in between chicago and Milwaukee and I sell bikes sometimes.

If it is a quality or desire able bike I've had no problem selling to people in both chicago and as far as madison.

Just be patient, pick up cheap, and don't over rebuild it to keep expenses low. Also parting out groups and selling framesets separately can be helpful also and usually nets a higher return overall.


Good luck!
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Old 03-24-17, 09:38 AM
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best margins are in flippers you do not work on, for example typical margins on most resales flippers ranged from 20-60 dollars on average when I fixed them up. Over the years I found the same margins on projects that were picked up dirt cheap, then sold at fixer prices with no work The problem with fixing bikes is even if free, once you spend 1-2 hours to fix, plus parts = low payback. Many of us here flipped bikes to get access to parts, pay off keepers, or just have fun. You will seriously make more money panhandling than fixing bikes on hourly return!

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Old 03-24-17, 10:25 AM
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You sort of need to know who your market is as well. Bikes that I like and that interest me aren't always things that'll sell. I've been sitting on a Trek 520 for a whillleeee now that had actually just had a tune up at a shop and new tires thanks to the previous owners.

Most of the bikes I've sold have been to college kids or others living in the city looking for cheap basic transportation. They want to buy it cheap, lock it up outside, and do very little in terms of upkeep, and likely abandon it when they graduate or move.

Entry level road bikes, hybrids, and 90s rigid mountain bikes can sell like crazy here in the spring if you don't ask foolish prices.
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Old 03-24-17, 11:27 AM
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Selling on CL can be really strange. I have often listed what I thought were very nice bikes at fair prices, and had them sit. This one on the other hand generated more responses than I have ever had, and almost instantly. Go figure. I didn't even bother taking good photos. [/URL][/IMG]
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Old 03-24-17, 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
My personal favorites are when you see a bike listed one day for cheaper, describing it in so-so condition, a fairly decent deal at the price. The next day, the exact same bike is listed again at three times the price, claiming it is in perfect shape, in a different location.
We have a small market here, and there's a new flipper in the area that does this. On a couple occasions he's tried to resell bikes that were actually dangerous (bent AL frames) and had been sold the week before as "parts only". It'll come back around to him at some point, I expect.

I've been collecting more than I've let go lately, in anticipation of the rise in demand come summer. June and July are the better months for moving bikes quickly and with slightly better return, in our market at least.
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Old 03-24-17, 12:00 PM
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Lose a little on every sale and make it up in volume.
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Old 03-24-17, 12:13 PM
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I may not be the cheapest refurbisher; neither am I the most expensive. However, I am one of a very few in my market that does a comprehensive overhaul and tune up. I find it takes longer to sell a bike than a few years ago. Despite the moaning about the "Frenchness" of French bikes, Peugeots move the fastest, with several going to those who had a Peugeot when they were a teenager. I don't bother with bikes with limited brand recognition.

Some general observations:
  • Craigslist's standardized photo size make it hard to stand out. I don't think posting 24 photos is any advantage and it is very time consuming.
  • Craigslist mobile platform photos are really small.
  • All transactions are cash only, which I'm sure is a handicap.
  • Riders want comfort, which is perceived in non-drop bar setups.
  • There is a lot of value in new bikes at the $500 price point, which can be bought on credit.
  • Gas is cheap, although insurance isn't.
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Old 03-24-17, 12:49 PM
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I'm seeing this here is Sacramento too. It seems medium sized men's road bikes are the fastest sellers and hardest to find. I am fond of vintage MTB's (Specialized, Trek, Gary Fisher, Schwinn, etc.) but have taken an interest in road bikes recently. Many MTB's are priced really low and still don't sell. I just want to rehab bikes and find them new homes without losing any money. I am planning on volunteering at the Bike Co-op here in town when I get more access to my car (my wife works odd hours and takes the car) I bike it everywhere. The co-op is too far to bike to on a regular basis.

I have been fixing and rehabbing my friends' and family members' bikes to get a "fix" too.

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Old 03-24-17, 01:13 PM
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Keep in mind for 70's and 80's era 10-speeds, there are a few different classes of bikes. Each would fulfill different needs.
  • European and Italian classics. Some cheap, some very expensive racing bikes, often equipped with Campagnolo parts, these are prized by a few, but not a lot of people willing to pay the big bucks for them.
  • Upper mid range Japanese Bikes. Still large numbers of them on the road. Often somewhat nicer than the "American" bikes, but due to large numbers, often not prized like the European bikes.
  • Huffys, Murrays, Schwinn Varsitys, and related "dept store quality" bikes. There are literally millions of these out there. They make great town bikes and beaters, and should be priced accordingly. Also note that some brands such as Peugeot churned out lots of cheap bikes, and very few expensive bikes.
  • 3 Speeds (60's models?) Unique niche, but still not that expensive, and quite a few of them are still around.
  • Beach Cruisers. Tank bikes. Some are at least UNIQUE. I suppose there must be a market for the more unique ones. Beware of new imposters.
Anyway, old doesn't always mean expensive. And there are a lot of bikes that are marked at much higher prices than they are worth. And someone who is just trying to sell Grandpa's old bike may not really know what it is, getting the value to low or too high. Perhaps insisting that a High-Ten Peugeot should be worth as much as a Reynolds 531 Peugeot.

Around here, I might only see one or two true classics a year that would make the heart go pitter-pat, if that many. But, I'm not convinced they would get snapped up that quickly either. How many people are going to by a $1000+, 30+ year old bike?
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Old 03-24-17, 01:17 PM
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I happen to live in the Milwaukee area. A lot of those bikes that you see posted over and over again are coming from one particular individual who does very little in the way of work on those bikes. I've seen bikes that he's found on CL and then put up for sale the same day in pretty much the same condition, but at much higher prices than what he purchased at. So obviously a volume operation.

There was another person in a different part of town who was doing much the same thing. Reason I know is that last year, a Trek I sold to him was reposted the same day at a >$100 markup. I'm not seeing too many bikes from the second person anymore.

Where I distinguish myself from that kind of seller is in service. I give each bike a full tune-up, and an overhaul if necessary. I spend a lot of time cleaning bikes. I'm constantly replacing wear items. I'm happy to tell a person if a bike doesn't fit, and it's not unusual for me to spend hours in person on a sale if there are questions or indecision on the part of the buyer.

I also offer something that's not advertised anywhere - a $10 discount for any referral from a previous purchase. I offer the same discount for repeat buyers on subsequent purchases.

I tend to keep a rather low profile. That, combined with repeat business, has a constant stream of buyers at my door. I'm not complaining about the two sellers listed above, because my business model is different, and I'm not trying to compete on volume.
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Old 03-24-17, 02:02 PM
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I think the age of top dollar prices for entry level, but quality, vintage stuff is over. The massive wave of bike enthusiasts that came around the fixie conversion days has crested, but prices haven't really settled for most bikes. I think there are a great many sellers asking absurd prices for so-so stuff and as a result of their lack of sales, the market looks saturated.

As a buyer, it doesn't look saturated at all. I see less amazing deals and I see less deals in general on higher end, vintage stuff, but that's okay I think. In general having owned a ton I want unique things now and I think earlier I'd have had more luck, but oh well.
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Old 03-24-17, 02:19 PM
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If you can sell used chattle items in this town you can sell anything, anywhere. I get around by bike and that's where my energies stop and start. No bicycult, no collecting, no hoarding. This isn't against the guy who is trying to make a buck fixing up and selling bikes, it's the fact he's inept and only licking his chops thinking of the quick crack money he'll make by filling the tires and ragging the frame down. The ones who are really competent, well outfitted for specific bike tools and invest in the long haul are extremely rare. Guys who take the time on their flips to get things properly matched and tuned are 1:100. The word "serviced" can mean a lot or nothing.
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Old 03-24-17, 03:00 PM
  #23  
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To be honest, I don't really bother much anymore. If I sell, I wait for the prime time: fall, when VCU comes back into session. Most of what I have to sell is too high $$ to move effectively on CL or locally.
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Old 03-24-17, 03:26 PM
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The only way to make money flipping is parting out. I'm convinced. Buy a bike with nice parts, put junk on it, resell the complete and resell the nice parts separately.

It makes me too sad to do it, so I don't.
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Old 03-24-17, 03:30 PM
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I pretty much only sell here and on Ebay. I have sold quote a few bikes and what sold easiest were Paramounts and PX10s. People remember those from their youth better than anything else. Not sure about CL but on Ebay a clean, well presented bike is essential. A good reputation and feedback that reflects your packing skills is also valuable.
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