Barrettscv 

Plus 1!!

I have the following rims;

Sun CR18 are strong, economical and ideal for C&V sports/touring bikes. These are not suited for racing models due to slightly excessive weight and a bulky appearance.

Velocity A23 are stiff, moderately aerodynamic, wide and lightweight. The A23 is the best performance rim due to its wider design, superior stiffness and lightweight performance. I would avoid using these on older Reynolds 531 bikes, the aerodynamic shape clashes with older bikes, IMO.

H + Sons TB14 is lightweight, wide, and beautifully finished. It's not as stiff or as aerodynamic as the A23 but it looks perfectly correct on a steel bike.

Andy_K 

You might have the older version. There was a time when A23's were not tubeless compatible. At that time, they had a basic concave profile center channel and you could use cloth tape. Then around the time they moved their manufacturing to the U.S. they introduced the tubeless version of the A23, which has a "shoulder" for the bead to bump against, which I believe is one of the keys to making tubeless work, and a deeper "well" in the center.

In my experience, if you try to use cloth tape with the tubeless version they won't just be "a little harder than normal" to get tires mounted. They're very nearly impossible. However, if you use tubeless tape or kapton tape, as rccardr suggests, it's no problem.

This issue isn't specific to A23's, of course. Most tubeless compatible rims have this problem/design feature.


BTW, to address the original question, I really like A23s. I think I've got four wheel sets with them and another pair in the garage waiting to be built. I've never had an issue with the brake track. On the other hand, the profile isn't as classic looking as the TB14.

ksryder

I ran TB14s with 700x38s for two years on my gravel bike with zero issues. Only reason I replaced them is because the brake track was finally worn -- which was due to 14,000+ miles of gravel and not any fault of the rim.

DIMcyclist

Excuse me for mistaking the A23 for the Atlas. My usual go-to for any 700c rim is DT Swiss; it's been a while since I checked in with Velocity for 700c (which I've usually used for rando & commuter bikes).

Granted, the Atlas isn't exactly the Synergy (it IS stronger, and a tad more wide), but it's outwardly very similar; certainly shinier.

My bad. Everyone, please Ignore anything I've posted in this thread, as it was stated based on a mistake.

52telecaster

I use cr18s a lot as well. They take a pretty good beating. Would like to try the m13's as well

Salamandrine 

I suppose that is true, but what is also true is most vintage rims also had quite narrow brake tracks. This was partly because most people used sidepulls for quite a long time. Compared to cantis (and dual pivots) sidepulls are very linear WRT brake pad position as the pads wear down. TB14 actually look modern to me because of the relatively high sidewalls. No doubt the average bike nut would be hard pressed to tell that it's not a vintage rim.

FWIW I put in quite a few miles on my A23 wheels on pretty rough gravel and singletrack with full packs last summer. It was kind of accidental because shipment of heavier rims was delayed, but they held up fine. They don't look particularly retro though.

I wonder if Jan Heine & co will ever start pushing fat sew ups? That is maybe the next frontier.

Dfrost 

I’ve never used Sun CR18 rims, but seem to recall that they were a repeat offender in the “difficult to remove a tire” thread, although they are certainly popular around C&V. My tb14’s are OK with Compass or Grand Bois tires, but not quite as easy as any of the Mavics in that regard

gugie 

Order made, TB14's ftw!

Good combination of weight, looks, and strength.

styggno1

I was sitting in front of the fireplace fondling my recently arrived stash of H+ TB14: s. Picked up the phone and looked a bit at BF. Peculiar coincidence - this thread popping up today.

These are not going to be built for a while. I bought them just because I am fed up with pursuing vintage NOS rims at ridiculous prices. I have a nice selection of NOS rims for my more serious/period projects/restorations but I decided to quit hunting old rims for the "fun-projects". The projects where nothing is original or "needs" to be period correct. I looked into it and found the TB14 a good substitute and readily available. As someone has already mentioned they do not fool anyone who knows but they will look retro enough to not shame a vintage bike.

52telecaster

with the wrong tires they can be a little tight, the worst of the cr18s size wise are the 590 or 650a variety. they are a little too big. i have ruined a tube or 2 working with those rims. honestly the 700c's have been fine for me.

Jeff Wills

Also available at Universal (although 32 hole only, dammit): https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...&category=4013

Darn it, Sugar Wheel Works is only a couple blocks from my work. Why haven't I stopped in?

Fahrenheit531 

Polished TB-14s were the final ingredient on my Paramount a year or so ago. The smoothly rounded profile complements the Campy hi-flange hubs perfectly, the ride is excellent and I just plain love 'em. They'll land on the Volare too, when the time comes, and I don't think I'll bother checking what else is out there.

kingston 

Agree. That's how I use them.

Generally agree although I do have a set of black ones with the silver track on my Athena equiped 89 Team Miyata. I think they look OK on that bike, but it already looks a little odd with the modern components.

I just assumed it was my superior technique and amazing hand strength. I probably have the older version. I bought them used so I don't really know for sure.

ThermionicScott 

The M13 probably isn't getting much mention in this thread since the OP wants something that will support 35-38mm tires well. I've heard they're good otherwise.

Salamandrine 

I have M13's on my Peugeot. Surprisingly tough rims. I probably put about 5-6000 miles on them including some off road, and they're still dead true. I bought them because it was cheap and expedient, and ended up pleasantly surprised.

Yep, M13 is a narrower 20mm rim. Better for 25 or 28 tire. 32 is as wide as I would go. Basically it's much like an improved version of the old Rigida 1320. Rigida was more or less the standard clincher training rim at one time, and it will look just right on 70s bikes -- as long as you peel off the stickers.

DiegoFrogs

I have had several CR18s and M13-IIs, and if you're going in this direction, you should choose based on tire size. I agree with Salamandrine above that somewhere around 28-32 mm is the tire size overlap for these models.

I always thought they were both excellent for the price, without being too lightweight or flashy, which is the parameter space where I make most of my life decisions.

ThermionicScott 

Conceptually, I think there's a lot in common between the Pacenti Brevet and Sun M13-II. Both are double-walled box-section rims but with single eyelets, available in a shiny finish. Chief differences are that the Brevet is wider and clear anodized rather than being merely polished. (Oh, and it's tubeless-ready, but many of us in C&V probably aren't going to exercise that anytime soon. )

gugie 

I hated working on those Rigida 1320's. Half a turn on the spoke nipple and there would be a lot of movement in the rim.

kingston 

Out of curiosity I used my wife's kitchen scale to weigh 4 CR18 rims that I'm about to build up. They weighed in at 525, 526, 537 & 567g. Now you know.

52telecaster

wow, i use those a lot. they dont feel too heavy to me but then again i am lacing the front ones to dynamo hubs. do you know what the actual weights are on the m13s?

taguy4

I have M13II's on one of my vintage racing bikes, and they are solid rims but narrow (I wouldn't put wider than a 25mm tires on them). The CR-18 is a wider and heavier version of the M13II rim - I built a set of these up for someone's vintage mountain bike and they were okay to work with. The thing I hate about these two rims is the two sharp angles instead of smooth curves on the transition from the sidewalls to the surface where the spokes go thru. I can't for the life of me figure why they designed these rims this way.

Weinmann AS23X rims are the only other traditional looking rims other than the ones others have mentioned. They are dirt cheap and are drilled for Schrader tubes so they don't have the snob appeal of the H Plus Son or VO rims, but they can take a wide range of tire sizes since they are not really narrow or wide. They are also very light because they are single layer rims and don't have ferrules (you have to use washers under the nipples). I have these rims on my UO-8 because I didn't want to spend a lot for rims for a lower cost bike like this, and I've ridden over many rough railroad tracks and bricks roads with them and never had a problem. I don't like the dull aluminum finish on them though, but I guess if I really went nuts fixing up this bike I could strip the anodizing off the rims and polish them.

kingston 

No. I don't have any of those.

Ghrumpy

By "difficult to remove a tire" do you mean you have to use levers? I usually need to use levers to get tires off my CR18s, but not every time. My standard for that is that I have to use metal levers.

(In any case, they're nothing like the old Ambrosio 19 Elites. The Gold Standard for "difficult to remove a tire." I finally decided I will never use a plastic lever on one of those again.)

ThermionicScott 

That squares with other reports I've read. My 26"x1-3/8"/590mm CR18 weighed over 500g and that's a smaller diameter than 700C! My hunch is that the 460g spec that Sun likes to throw around is for a 26"/559mm or perhaps even smaller version of the rim.

There's just no way that a wide triple-box rim with thick walls everywhere can possibly weigh 460g in 700C. And be made of metal.

BradH

The last set of 32h 700c Sun M13ii rims I built up were 470 grams each.

Another rim worth mentioning is the Mavic Open Elite. I had a set sitting on my front porch for about fifty bucks. I think Ben's Cycle has some. They are a triple box like the Sun CR18 but 20mm external width. They come in at 490 grams in 32h.