Gresp15C

Last year I got a pair of Nokian W160's, to put on a mountain bike that I wasn't using for anything else. It was going to be my first full winter of bike commuting. The tires seem to be affordable and of decent quality. I haven't lost any studs.

But we were robbed. Madison got about 20 inches of snow all winter, half of normal. And I spent the coldest week of the year in bed with the flu. Most of my "winter" riding was on dry pavement with scattered patches of ice. Still, I worked out a number of useful things -- maintenance, clothing, lighting, etc. It helps me to have a place in the house for all of my gear, so I don't have to search for things in the morning.

It's hard to say how much the tires really slowed me down, since I was also encumbered by my ski jacket, snow pants, and boots. When it was well below zero, I wore my ski helmet with built-in ear flaps, and ski goggles. When it was warmer, I wore a wind proof beanie under my helmet.

The pleasure of being out in the brisk weather makes up for the extra time it takes to get around.

noglider 

Ski helmet. Good idea.

Mr Pink57

I have to agree the one I used on the rear was a absolute bear on the roads and did not handle the slushy snow any better then a non studded tire to me. I was using low low pressure on a 35mm rim.

Let's not also forget the Nokian Extreme is a BEAR to get on a rim, it took all I had to get that one tire on a Salsa Gordo, and took even more to get it on a Stans rim which uses a slightly larger ERTO.

DogBoy

For what its worth, I've been very happy with my 32mm A10s. I don't expect to ride them in deep snow. I only ride them after the streets are plowed, and I have a very short portion of my commute on an MUP that isn't plowed at all. They are great on the streets even in occasional packed snow. When the weather gets worse, I use my other bike with 26" mount and grounds/ Also a good tire that isn't for totally extreme weather, but can handle more than the a10s. If I only had one bike, I would go to the W160 though.

Nokians tend to me hard to mount. I find that warming the tires in the sun does wonders for this process, but I'm also mounting them in November when there are still quite a few sunny days.

My riding has been in IA/MN & WI.

Daniel4

I recently purchased a fat bike. KHS 4 season 1000. The KHS website shows that tires as Vee, which I read are terrible. But when I was at the shop, the markings on the tires just say KHS. So I'm not so sure what brand tires are really on there.

Anyways my commute is only 4.6km and the past winter was basically me going through a learning curve with a beater mountain bike on Continental spike claw 120s which were ok. The entire route isn’t that much of a challenge except for staying in the ruts cut out by pedestrians along the MUP.

So my fat bike has knobby tires and I’m wondering if it’s worth getting studs. As I was shopping I noticed some tires already had stud holes in them but mine did not.

A new set of quality studded tires would easily be another $200 or more.

At the bottom of this link shows spare studs you can buy for about $30 per 100 but they require existing stud holes already in your tires.
Components - Tires and Tubes - Fatbikes

And then there are grip studs where you can tap into the knobs of your tires. They are expensive at about $1 each stud.
Tire Studs | Grip Studs™ Screw-In Tire Studs | Traction in Ice, Snow and Dirt

Since I didn’t encounter a lot of challenging ice conditions last winter, I figure I should be ok with the knobby tires except that they may be Vee Mission.

Any thoughts?

ThermionicScott 

My 1.9" Nokian/Suomi W160 Mount and Grounds weigh exactly twice as much as the 1.75" Paselas I use in the other three seasons (946g vs 470g) and I'd consider both to be fairly middle-of-the-road in that regard. To say that studded tires weigh "a little more" or have "a little more" rolling resistance would be just as disingenuous as exaggerating the difference. I truly felt like I was on the verge of a heart attack the first time I rode studded tires and I'm not otherwise at high risk for one.

revcp 

The Vee Mission (made by Innova) are, well, not so good. With a lot of pressure they're good on MUPs. At 10-12 lbs they're okay on dry singletrack. At 6-8 lbs in snow they're not so good.

Gresp15C

While on the subject, if you go with ski goggles as well, ones with clear lenses (as opposed to tinted) are harder to find, but better for night cycling. Ski goggles are designed to work with the helmet.

Daniel4

My KHS tires are actually ChaoYang 26x4.0 120tpi. The only review I can find is from mtbr.com which rated the 26x4.9 as passable. It noted the treads on the side could be taller for better turning.

Chaoyang/FatB 4.9 Initial Impressions/Review- Mtbr.com

Can anybody find any more reviews? I didn't get the fat bike as a sport but rather as a winter commuter. So I figure I may not be as demanding as those recreational riders even though it would be nice to have the flexibility and performance.

PaulRivers

I'm afraid I have not actually used this tire. My Schwalbe Marathon Winter's are still in good shape, and still likely to be the fastest rolling on decently plowed pavement (they actually plow the bike path I use), so no need to replace them yet.

w240's are decent tires, definitely no need to get rid of them if you already own them, the 45nrth Gravdals seemed like they'd be nicer tires but that's just from reading and looking at them online (if I needed to buy something new). I keep thinking about a Fat Bike to, it's just that it takes space to store it, and I'm not sure practically speaking how much I'd actually use it you know? I have a car, so the rarer bad days are generally handled either by that or by working from home. If I knew anyone else with a fat bike who did offroad stuff it would be a big incentive.

I'd definitely have a fat bike if it was 5 years ago, but now they plow our bike trails, so the skinnier studded tire is faster.

Yeah, I know of those tires, my post just got really long and I didn't want it to get longer lol. I think 700c bikes are generally superior for winter riding because they roll over everything easier. Of course if you already own a 26" bike, I'm not saying the difference is so big as to require buying a new bike. Everything Nokian makes is a decent tire.

Thanks for commenting on your experience with a fat bike. I've read people say that if you're not ice riding on a lake, it's better to buy the non-studded dillinger then have studs added, about half the studs you'd get on the fully studded version are plenty for almost any riding. Sounds nice. :-) Keep being on the fence about getting one myself, when fat bikes got popular they also started plowing the bike trails by me...

I'm very surprised it's possible for that to happen without paying a huge fee for overnight delivery! I've been getting some stuff really fast lately from amazon, which is really cool, but then I read about long and odd hours and working conditions and I start to feel kinda bad about it. :-/ I mean I live getting stuff I order in the next few days, but I'd wait an extra day for delivery if it meant some guy could work normal hours rather than some terrible 12am-8am shift. :-/

Cool, would be interested to know how you like it after it's starts snowing and such. :-)

Thanks for your thoughts, I'm surprised a fat tire didn't seem to work out better on the roads for you.

Thanks for writing back, I see we've had the same experience. There was a theme that the fatter the tire for winter riding (on streets) the better, our experience does not agree. 30c-40c seems to be the optimum range for street riding, I thought 2" was worse than that range.

Thanks for commenting, Schwalbe Marathon Winters have been great tires for me.

Thanks for commenting, I've assumed that Fat Bikes would be much better at simply deforming to roll over ruts.

Riding in the winter is definitely slower, even with skinnier studded tires. I do actually kinda enjoy the sound the Schwalbe Marathon's make personally - it's definitely not horribly loud or obtrusive or anything. It's like Rice Crispies when you add milk to them. The 2" Nokian's I had were much worse.

Yeah, it's weird in the late fall before snow or ice - my skinny tire road bike gets slower. Your tire has less grip on your ground in winter with snow so it's a little slower to. I'd guess it's about 80% of the speed I get in the summer with very good road conditions in winter, the worse the road conditions the worse the speed gets. Really bad road conditions are walking speed. Road conditions are usually back to good a day after it snows, as long as you don't get one of those unfortunate events (it snows then deep freezes, that leads to some really nasty roads as salt and sand don't work below 15F or something).

I think the Schwalbe Marathon Winters are the fastest studded winter tires you could buy to handle regular ice on the road like you'd likely get in New York. Only the 45nrth Xerces would likely be any faster, but that's because they don't have studs in regular contact with the road. I run my Schwalbe's around 80psi when road conditions are good for speed (higher pressure keeps the outer row of studs off the ground when going straight).

Ha, well studs are for ice not snow, so that part makes it sound like it was an even better winter for riding. If you got the flu the coldest week of the year is the one to get it - I have no problem riding between 15-25F, but around 0F you have to worry that any exposed skin will get frostbite. You really have to make absolutely sure your gear covers all of your skin for those conditions. I tend to just take the car when it's that cold.

If you ride regularly in the winter, and want to ride fast, it's a whole different wardrobe. Wearing regular ski jackets and pants can trap the moisture from sweat, making you colder. It's not such a big deal if you just ride slower to begin with, but if you ride faster the outfit is usually a wool/synthetic base layer, additional wool/synthetic base layers in the middle if needed for the temp, and a windproof but breathable (goretex, event fabric, or windstopper) outer shell.

Thanks for commenting, I've heard of people warming them up with a hair dryer and mounting them inside the house. I bought a paint cloth from Home Depot so I could work on my bike in my apt when it was cold out indoors.

Anything smaller than fatbike tires, I personally think require studs for winter riding (well not winter in florida, but winter anywhere there's ice). Like I said, in my experience, actual fat bike tires slid on ice slow enough to get a foot down, so they should be ok for safety.

A 1.9"/2" fat bike tires is much much slower. But a 35c marathon winter studded tire is not nearly as much slower. Opinions vary, even my own, it's no more than 20% slower at worst in my opinion (on the same road surface with no snow).

I-Like-To-Bike

Was DHL the carrier? I shipped two foot lockers of personal goods from Afghanistan with DHL that arrived in the US two days later via Bahrain, Lepzig and Cincinnati, a week before I arrived home.

noglider 

Yes, it was DHL. Your story is even impressiver.

BobbyG

So the 2nd "Nokian" W106 tire came two days after the first. They are both branded as "Suomi". I did a quick google search and found this: FAQ / Nokian Tires and this: Home | Suomi Tyres
Apparently Nokian divested its bicycle tire division in 2004 which was bought by another Finnish company, Suomi,who have been making Nokian Tires since at least 2004. I guess they brand them as "Nokian" where they can or want and "Suomi" everywhere else. The instructions said to ride 'em 35km before attempting snow and ice. My commute is 18 miles round trip so that should suffice. I will post my experiences as winter progresses.

noglider 

Suomi is the Finnish word for Finnish.

Gresp15C

Thanks for the advice!

Even aside from the week that I missed, there were several below 0F, getting down to -10 at worst. I was very well covered up. For better or worse, I ride pretty slow, and my commute is only 8 miles round trip on flat terrain. Also for whatever strange biological reason, I don't sweat a lot.

I imagine that if I have to slog through real snow, then I have to be more concerned about sweating, so I won't assume that I've yet found the optimal clothing. I was using stuff that I already had, since I've always been outdoorsy, but just haven't been outdoorsy in the winter on a bike yet. Now that I made it through one winter, I'm more willing to spend some money on appropriate gear.

Note: My tires were listed as "Nokian" by the retailer, but "Soumi" is molded into the rubber.

BobbyG

Daniel4

This thread should be a sticky in the Winter Cycling section.

As I was researching the tires I have and the Dillinger studded tires, I kept running across these other names: Lou/Bud, Nate and Ground Control.

The tires I have are Chaoyang Big Daddy 26x4, 120tpi. Mtbr has a post with a test for the 4.9in and said it was passable. I measured the knob height. It is 4mm (more about that next).

Chaoyang/FatB 4.9 Initial Impressions/Review- Mtbr.com

Mtbr also compared the Lou/Bud against the Dillinger 5 studded.

Bud/Lou versus Dillinger 5- Mtbr.com

Seems odd because the Lou/Buds aren’t studded so each type of tire would have its strengths and weaknesses. Of course you’d expect the Dillinger studded to excel on ice but surpassed by the Lou/Bud in deep snow. It seems each time someone else posted a review, the opinions keep changing. The knobs on the Dillinger were 5mm and the Lou/Bud’s were 7mm.

So if one were to put studs on the Lou/Bud tires, it would be the best all around tire wouldn’t it? Makes me wonder about the ability of my own Chaoyang Big Daddy tires which have only 4mm knobs.

Mind you, I’m probably not going to take the bike to the extremes like mountain bikers do as I am only using it to commute. The commute route takes me through 2km on a MUP which isn’t maintained in the winter. The tires would also have to take me through a plowed sidewalk with icy and snow chunks on it as well as plowed roads.

So what is the opinion of the Lou/Bud, the Nate and the Ground Control tires?

Tim_Iowa

Bud, Lou, and smaller Nate are Surly's most aggressive tread patterns and largest knobs. That gives them excellent traction on loose stuff but higher rolling resistance on smooth surfaces.

The Specialized Ground Control tires have a slightly less aggressive tread and smaller knobs, so they have slightly less traction but roll a little faster. Plus, they're a bit narrower than the Bud and Lou.


But, aggressive tread still doesn't help on ice, only studs do. I really like my Ground Control tires but I swap them for Dillinger 5's once it freezes. Surprisingly, they are pretty fast tires even on pavement. The studs are super noisy, though.

If your tire has stud pockets built into the tread (Dillinger, Escalator, some Vee Snowshoe tires), then you can buy inexpensive studs and just push them in. Get the studs with carbide tips, they last much longer.

If your tire doesn't have stud pockets, you have to use screw-in studs (Grip Studs). But, they're about $1 a stud, so that's an expensive option.

Some folks "redneck stud" their tire with common hardware (screws or bolts) through the tread, but they wear down quickly (they're not carbide steel), are heavy, and put a ton of holes through the tire.

snow_echo_NY

cool thread! we have gotten Nokian w240s studded tires for the winter. if anyone has had experience am curious. otherwise i will come back and post my experience when we get snow later this season.

jrickards

I had considered buying a e-bike helmet because they are much cheaper than motorcycle helmets but offer sufficient protection for a cyclist. Plus, the ones I was looking at had face shields that should provide protected and hopefully unfogging vision.

jrickards

Given that the pointy end of these studs goes towards the tube, you might want to ensure that the knobby on the tire is sufficiently deep to prevent punctures. Otherwise, do what I and others have done, DIY studded tires with metal screws screwed from the inside out with an extra tube between the screw heads and the inflated tube.

BikingZombie

I ran with the schwalbe marathons for a few winters, but just purchased some 45Nrth Gravdals at 120tpi . The marathons were great (good control & good speed), but after a few winters I was interested to try something else, and wanted to try a higher threadcount / non-wired type. I gave the marathons to a neighbor kid that wants to try some winter biking. Looking forward to getting on these Gravdals

unterhausen

I have studded dillingers on my fatbike. When we start getting snow, it immediately turns to ice. And when it gets rutted, it is a pain to ride on with 2" tires. So the fatbike gets ridden a lot. In out kind of weather, not much point in having non studded tires on the fatbike, in fact, it might be worse in a way. I'm hoping our winter isn't as extreme as it has been the last couple years. So far we are having an extremely warm winter

noglider 

Right, and I can't tell yet if my winter purchases are effective. Now I'm hoping for at least a short period of severe weather.

fietsbob

FWIW Kala is Finnish For Fish

Lots of Finns setters here Swedes and Norwegians too.. ..


Back in the 90's I got bundles of bike Tires imported directly from Finland ..

still have my studded ones from then .. ready to roll once I Pump up the PSI