DGSpark

I recently acquired what I believe to be a later model Benotto 3000. While I have read that most Benottos after 1985 were made in Mexico I believe this one was made in Italy. Perhaps it is an 85 or earlier but it has Benotto autographed Panto seat stays, internal brake cable routing, a FD hanger, Campagnolo dropouts and a Cinelli BB shell. Any insights?

satbuilder 

What shape are the chain stays?

T-Mar

Welcome to the forums. There are no decals, so there is always the possibility of a repaint with modifications. However, a chromed rear triangle in conjuction with internal brake cable routing, would typically out this into at least the very late 1980s. Picture assist:

francophile 

Diamond shaped chainstays on that frame = 3000

I just sold one to another forum member, slightly older than yours., was far too small for me. Wouldn't mind having one if it's in my size.

I've heard no definitive answer if the diamond stay frames were made in IT or MX.

deux jambes

The frame I bought from you turns out to an ‘84 according to the stamping beneath the bb shell.

— — —

Since the 3000 I have now is the second 3000 frame I’ve had in my possession, I’ve done a fair bit of research in the model, but am by no means an expert on it.

My most certain observation has been that while what available information there is on the 3000, the little that is out there is also far from definitive, and often contradictory.

Its been my basic understanding however, that Benotto was already building in Mexico by the late 70’s. However, it seems that he reserved his higher end models to remain built in Italy during that time. But he continued to transition more and more production to Mexico through the early & mid 80’s, this includes the 3000.

I’m confident that my ‘84 is made in Mexico due to two main factors. Italian built frames supposedly wore the Columbus sticker on the drive side of the top tube, such as ‘the 79 3000 I previously owned. Mexico frames are said to wear that sticker on the down tube such as the ‘84 I have now. Also, like my old ‘79, an upper case letter “I” stamped into the bb shell indicates an Italian frame. No such stamping, as is the case with my ‘84, would indicate a Mexican frame.

Once again uncertain, it seems that ‘84 was the last year of the classic “champagne” or “nickel beige” color for the 3000. They appear to have come in a blue/white colorway by mid 80’s. And there is even less info available for those later models than their predecessors, and fewer examples.

I’m in no way claiming that the OP’s Benotto is not a 3000, but I have not noticed one that has exhibited either internal routing or a FD hanger. Those could be aftermarket mods or not. The diamond stays are a telltale sign of a 3000, but aren’t an exclusive identifier as Benotto offered at least one more frame in his lineup that utilized diamond stays as well (that is if I’m not mistaken). I’ll try to dig that info up later when I have a chance, if someone else hasn’t confirmed or debunked by then.

francophile 

Weird on the date stuff with the frame I sold you. PO on that specific 3000 said the mis-matched Campy crank on it was "original to the bike" and it had (if I recall) an '82 and '81 arm on the crank (maybe '80/81 mix, I can't recall). I didn't even think to look at the BB shell for a date code. It matches what Benotto has in the '79 catalog extremely closely...

With the OP's frame being a repaint, no way to know what was added on, really. Obviously later than '80 with no portacatena on the dropouts, I believe Benotto had portacatena on at least the '78?

Sadly, oldest catalog I know of is Mark's at bulgier.net, and that appears to be pre-TT-cable-guides, so mid-late 70s best I can tell. https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/Benotto2/04.jpg

The '85 German catalog I've seen doesn't list the 3000. I haven't been able to find another 80s catalog anywhere.

Obviously this is a Benotto though. And has the diamond stays only found on their higher-end bikes, ala De Rosa...

deux jambes

Frames from the era will commonly show two sets of stampings, one at each end of the bb shell. One set notes the year and size. In my case that shows up as “84 54.” The other set is most likely production sequence. Possible that the fellow you purchased it from was accurate in his appraisal if the crankset was just old stock laying around the Benotto shop when assembling the bike. Mine also has the Gipiemme brake bridge, while all others I’ve seen used a Benotto branded bridge. I suspect they were spring cleaning.

No doubt that the OP’s is Benotto. Just not sure it’s a 3000. It very well might be a 5000 such as this one:

https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...0-picture.html

DGSpark

Diamond shaped. I'm guessing it's an 86 or so 3000 (Columbus SL)

Old Fireleg

A few days ago this frame pierced my eyes. Precisely because of the combination of diamond chain stays and 2500 EX stickers. The frame shows clear 3000 details, although the bottom of the BB shell is not visible and the dropouts are poorly visible. It may be a retrofit sticker, although the sticker seems period correct. Anyway, interesting ...
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-...15198-217-1125

francophile 

Sticker is valid, but seat tube isn't in the correct place, and the TT clear vinyl "EX" sticker is too far back on the head tube. Good example of 2500 EX stock ride, stays, and sticker placement here: Benotto 2500 EX - El Rasillo which we can roughly date due to portacatena dropouts.

In the late 70s the chainstays on the 3000 weren't chromed as you see on this. Good example shown on the '78-'82 model here: https://machiine.com/2015/benotto-classic/

T-Mar

I have a 1985 USA price list that lists the Benotto 3000; Columbus SL, Campagnolo SR, $1300 US.

T-Mar

FWIW, period advertisements show Benotto 3000 with the nickel-beige finish through the 1986, though I have seen lower level (i.e. 8xx series) from that year with the new graphics.

T-Mar

The pictures of the OP's frame shows side mount shift levers, while the 5000's were top mount. Still, given the apparent repaint, we don't know what, if anything, has been modified.