PeterCT

I'm mostly been a road biker but increasingly I'm using a Trek FX 7.4 hybrid for gravel roads, some adventure style bicyling and I've gone on several tours on the Trek over the last few years, up to week long/350 miles with gear.

However, I find the aluminum frame harsh at times and flat bars wear on my hands for long rides. I'd like to move more into gravel roads, bike packing and touring as a complement to my road biking (and I'm really locked into my road bike, a Bianchi Veloce (steel frame) that I built up with 105 groupset and modern drop handlebar).

So I started with Salsa, and tried out three bikes.

Salsa Vaya: stable, comfortable, I probably would like it for touring and it had decent "zip" and energy, but I'm not sure I could go full on bikepacking with it, or exactly how it'd deal with gravel adventures, despite being able to fit up to 700x50 tires. Hard to tell till I do it.

Salsa Marrakesh: so comfortable! stable! But very little zip and energy, I just don't think it'd be much fun to bike when I'm not touring nor great for gravel grinding/bikepacking.

Salsa Journeyman: definitely the most energetic and lively of the bunch, and tons of flexibility and more attachment points than I'd ever need. I felt like I was riding faster on his bike, but wasn't sure if I really was. It wasn't as refined as the Vaya, for sure, but would probably be a blast off road, and I like that you can switch out the 700 wheels for 650B mountain bike tires and visa versa.

PS: I am kinda a steel fan.

I'd also like to look beyond Salsa. Under $1500 or maybe $1800 would be nice.

Thoughts? Thanks!

tyrion

This thread just caught my eye:

https://www.bikeforums.net/cyclocros...e-one-yet.html

The bike looks like it checks many of your boxes. Checks my boxes too.

mstateglfr 

So you need wide enough tires to ride gravel/dirt and ability to carry gear. And prefer steel.

Surly lht or dt. Runs large enough tires to ride gravel, can carry anything you would want, and is steel.
Not nimble or light, but not meant to be.

black mountain monstercross frame. Build up how you want, can fit 50mm tires, can handle front and rear racks, and is quality heat treated steel.
lighter than an lht.

Raleigh tamland 1. Carbon fork and 631 steel frame. Rear rack possible.

Breezer has some options and thisnis just one of them. https://www.bikenashbar.com/cycling/...BoCd3oQAvD_BwE

there are more too woth all sorts of pricing and component levels. Google steel gravel bikes.

Spoonrobot 

The quiver is the container that holds all the arrows. You shoot each arrow (bike) at the surfaces you want to ride. "One quiver" doesn't really make any sense.

Anyway, I was in a similar situation last year. My thought process was as follows

1. What terrain do I expect to ride? Remote, technical singletrack with much climbing and descending is a different requirement than buff track and gravel road.
2. How much do I plan to carry? Under 20 pounds or so and picking a lighter built bike is a good idea. The more you load the bike the less fun those light zippy frames are going to be and the more fun the stiffer dead-riding while unloaded bikes are going to be. Descending or even riding fast on flat rough roads is a hair raising experience on a bike overloaded for it's frame and fork.
3. How am I planning to load the bike? Large saddle bag? Full frame back and fork bags? Etc. This is hard to plan as preferences often come from experience. You mention touring on your hybrid - was this regular racked style touring load or are you already bikepacking with it? I found I greatly prefer partial bikepacking (frame/fork bag) and partial classic touring (front rack) to carry my loads.

Salsa does a great job with their descriptions so I think you should be able to examine what you plan to do and pick the bike that works for you from their lineup. REI Co-Op house brand has some good bikes as does Diamondback but I think Salsa has probably the most complete and competent designed bikes for bikepacking/off road touring. I would seriously research any other bike that does not show a strong history of being a touring/bikepacking brand. You can bikepack with any bike but it's infinitely better on a bike with the small design cues that come from in-depth knowledge and experience on the part of the company.

Personally I believe the weight of your planned load tells the tale so I'd rank them as follows:

Journeyman ~15-20 pounds full load
Vaya ~20-35 pounds (this thread has third hand info that Salsa has light touring up to 50 pounds but that seems high to me.)
Marakesh ~35 pounds+

Metieval

try a Cannondale Topstone. you might be surprised on just how compliant Aluminum can ride. the negative no front rack or fork bosses.

the problem with most steel bikes for touring, will have zero zip.

however there is the Surly Midnight Special which is steel but more road bike on 650x47 WTB tires. That will be steel heavy but, yet zippy, and also able to take a front rack or bikepack.

fine line between zip and stability. and that line is different for everyone.

I am Torn between 650/road geometry feel vs 700/lighter/gravel geo
I saw this picture the other day, not mine! but ..... I probably need to go test ride one.

PeterCT

Thanks everyone for your responses so far.

This seems wise advice regarding Salsa choices. I'll definitely looking beyond Salsa while I work this out.

Lava

The Specialized Sequoia Elite and Bianchi Orso also come to mind as steel bikes in this category. They're both a little pricier than the Vaya, though.

I remember reading something about the Topstone having hidden fork bosses, but that might have been wishful reading into whichever preview article I was reading at the time. Anyone else read that?

Craptacular8

There is a guy in a group ride I ride with that recently moved up to a Journeyman. He was really enjoying it, and I don't know his thoughts on speed, but I noticed that he was definitely going at a faster pace than previously.


There are a ton of bikes out there to choose from that check the steel, wider tires, and touring attachments. Surly's Midnight Stallion is certainly a consideration, particularly if you see doing more rugged off road style backpacking. I've not ridden that one, but we use a Cross Check and All-City Space Horse for touring/gravel duty. The space horse probably is not as snappy in the front end as the MS, but follows the tradition of sports touring geometry, that allows for a larger tire. Good amount of stability with a load, and handles loose gravel descents easily with the longer rear stays. Both Surly's and All-City's tend to run a little long in the top tube, so many do size down. You'd definitely want to test ride.


I also picked up a previous generation of the Specialized Diverge aluminum frame, which tops out at a 34-35 tire in the rear. I know you said no aluminum, but from my perspective, the tires made more difference in ride compliance that the frame. I've found the diverge to be quite capable on gravel, though the 2017 is definitely more squirrely on loose gravel because it has the short roady rear stays...which makes it fun for actual group road rides, but that's the trade off. The newer generation has longer stays, takes larger tires, and would be more stable. It does however take a rack, and is suitable for light touring. I have Compass extralight 32's on it, which on the custom wheels I put on it, measures just a hair under 34 wide. I can maintain same speeds as my CF road bike while on the road, and does fine on the gravel I ride. I'm not on sharp flinty rocks however, but these have been excellent on crushed limestone when I took it on the Katy Trail, Rock Island Trail, etc.

PeterCT

Thanks all. I could probably lighten up on the 'no aluminum' rule. When I went to my steel Bianchi road bike, from aluminum, the improvement in compliance and ride was dramatic, but this is on narrow 23/25 type tires. I also love the aesthetic of steel.

The Journeyman I rode was aluminum. IT felt less refined, but I think that had something to do with the geometry as much as frame material.

The Surly MS looks really interesting. I have a love for Bianchis too so I should probably check their bikes, along with the Specialized Sequoia and All City offerings too. n

pbass

I just bought one. I love it. I'm coming from a Cross Check (that was admittedly a tad big for me), AND I wanted a more relaxed geo, and this Rove is sooo comfy. First good ride today, only about 15 miles but a good mix of road, fire roads, and some singletrack. It's a little weird feeling at first on the road with these fat 650Bs, but it's not slow feeling at all, and was very confidence-inspiring on some curvy fast descents--its...fun!
The Midnight Special was high on my list too, but I'm glad I went with this. I wanted 1x, and a distinctly more relaxed geo than my Cross Check, so I'm a happy camper.

Clem von Jones

I'm intrigued by the 26" Long Haul Trucker. The frame is long-wheelbase and a heavy tank but that would be partly offset by the smaller diameter wheels which make climbing easier and improve maneuverability. You can also run 2.1 tires with fenders. I wonder how insufferable the long wheelbase is as a daily ride.

kingston 

If I only had one bike it would be a Sam Hillborne

shoota 

It sure seems like the Vaya fits the bill. If you had more budget then I would say Cutthroat. THAT's a quiver-killer bike.