Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Classic & Vintage
Reload this Page >

Headbadge re-mounting

Notices
Classic & Vintage This forum is to discuss the many aspects of classic and vintage bicycles, including musclebikes, lightweights, middleweights, hi-wheelers, bone-shakers, safety bikes and much more.

Headbadge re-mounting

Old 01-08-20, 02:38 PM
  #1  
krems81 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
krems81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 803

Bikes: Schwinn Voyageur

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts
Headbadge re-mounting

Hi I’ve had some vintage frames refinished and obviously had to remove the original rivets on the head badges.

To remount them it’s been recommended to me that I get some self-starting screws from McMaster in a very small size.

There are a lot of options there though, and I could use some help figuring out which ones to order.

Any advice on this would be much appreciated.

Thanks!


krems81 is offline  
Old 01-08-20, 03:21 PM
  #2  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,664 Times in 2,497 Posts
This seems like a very C&V sort of question. Maybe someone from there will follow you in here or I can move this thread
unterhausen is offline  
Old 01-08-20, 03:54 PM
  #3  
krems81 
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
krems81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 803

Bikes: Schwinn Voyageur

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20 Post(s)
Liked 18 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by unterhausen
This seems like a very C&V sort of question. Maybe someone from there will follow you in here or I can move this thread
Sure. That’s my usual home on the forums but I thought the real knowledge on this might be here. Happy to have it moved
krems81 is offline  
Old 01-08-20, 03:57 PM
  #4  
unterhausen
Randomhead
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Happy Valley, Pennsylvania
Posts: 24,364
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Liked 3,664 Times in 2,497 Posts
I'm sure the real expertise is here in C&V. Moved here from framebuilding
unterhausen is offline  
Old 01-08-20, 04:24 PM
  #5  
Velo Mule
Senior Member
 
Velo Mule's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Long Island, NY
Posts: 2,097

Bikes: Trek 800 x 2, Schwinn Heavy Duti, Schwinn Traveler, Schwinn Le Tour Luxe, Schwinn Continental, Cannondale M400 and Lambert, Schwinn Super Sport

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 801 Post(s)
Liked 1,001 Times in 655 Posts
Drive pins are the usual way to fasten the headbadge if it was done that way originally. Some headbadges used pop rivets these are also available in small sizes.

This is the link to drive pins on McMaster-Carr:

https://www.mcmaster.com/drive-pins
Velo Mule is online now  
Likes For Velo Mule:
Old 01-08-20, 06:12 PM
  #6  
Mad Honk 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 2,939

Bikes: Paramount, Faggin, Ochsner, Ciocc, Basso

Mentioned: 114 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1285 Post(s)
Liked 1,838 Times in 1,111 Posts
Screws in thread sizes of 3 X.5 mm are available and should be easy enough to tap out on the frames. Next size up is 4 X.7 mm and the heads may be too bulky but if using stainless screws they can be ground down to an acceptable size head. HTH, MH
Mad Honk is online now  
Likes For Mad Honk:
Old 01-08-20, 06:31 PM
  #7  
John E
feros ferio
 
John E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: www.ci.encinitas.ca.us
Posts: 21,765

Bikes: 1959 Capo Modell Campagnolo; 1960 Capo Sieger (2); 1962 Carlton Franco Suisse; 1970 Peugeot UO-8; 1982 Bianchi Campione d'Italia; 1988 Schwinn Project KOM-10;

Mentioned: 44 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1384 Post(s)
Liked 1,294 Times in 819 Posts
I use small screws, as mentioned above, although I should try small pop rivets.
__________________
"Far and away the best prize that life offers is the chance to work hard at work worth doing." --Theodore Roosevelt
Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
Carlton: 1962 Franco Suisse, S/N K7911
Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
Schwinn: 1988 Project KOM-10, S/N F804069
John E is offline  
Likes For John E:
Old 01-08-20, 06:32 PM
  #8  
tyler_fred
Senior Member
 
tyler_fred's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Magnolia State, 100° with 110% humidity
Posts: 1,277

Bikes: American, Italian, and Japanese.. in no particular order.

Mentioned: 21 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 350 Post(s)
Liked 275 Times in 128 Posts
CoRide59 has surplus drive screws in a few different sizes and was very generous to share. You should reach out to him.
tyler_fred is offline  
Likes For tyler_fred:
Old 01-08-20, 06:35 PM
  #9  
dedhed
SE Wis
 
dedhed's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,516

Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970

Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2731 Post(s)
Liked 3,361 Times in 2,034 Posts
I have some small taps in sizes like 4-48 and 3-56 and like to tap and use short screws with loctite. Brass or stainless, flat or pan head depending on how it sits.
dedhed is offline  
Likes For dedhed:
Old 01-08-20, 06:50 PM
  #10  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26251 Post(s)
Liked 10,232 Times in 7,101 Posts
https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...ss-rivets.html
3alarmer is offline  
Old 01-08-20, 06:53 PM
  #11  
speedevil 
I never finish anyth
 
speedevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Western KY
Posts: 1,122

Bikes: 2008 Merckx LXM, 2003 Giant XTC mtb, 2001 Lemond Alpe d'Huez, 1997 Lemond Zurich, 1989 Cannondale ST, 1988 Masi Nuovo Strada, 1983 Pinarello Turismo

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 294 Post(s)
Liked 137 Times in 86 Posts
I have 198 extra drive screws in sizes 00 and 0 that I bought from McMaster-Carr. I'm happy to put a few of each size in an envelope to you, just let me know. PM is fine.
__________________
Dale, NL4T
speedevil is offline  
Likes For speedevil:
Old 01-08-20, 06:57 PM
  #12  
3alarmer 
Friendship is Magic
 
3alarmer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: Sacramento, CA
Posts: 22,932

Bikes: old ones

Mentioned: 304 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26251 Post(s)
Liked 10,232 Times in 7,101 Posts
Originally Posted by John E
I use small screws, as mentioned above, although I should try small pop rivets.
...using a standard pop rivet is problematic because the interior of the rivet projects far enough into the head tube to interfere with the steerer tube.
It would probably work if you could find some way to flatten the interior projecting stub. The space between these two tubes is pretty tight.
3alarmer is offline  
Old 01-08-20, 07:25 PM
  #13  
natterberry 
Senior Member
 
natterberry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Location: Centennial, CO
Posts: 695

Bikes: ‘83/‘85 Trek 760, ‘82 Trek 614, ‘77/‘78 Trek 304, ‘74 Raleigh International

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 285 Post(s)
Liked 220 Times in 138 Posts
I have quite a few extra 2-56 1/8” brass screws. Also willing to share.
natterberry is offline  
Old 01-08-20, 07:35 PM
  #14  
repechage
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,323
Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3449 Post(s)
Liked 2,800 Times in 1,974 Posts
Drive screws, then set them (also deforms to clear the steerer with a solid rod inside the tube, or really really thick wall pipe.
A nail set with a concave head helps too, there are different sizes around.

Cinelli used screws, hard to find, as they are "countersunk with a slot and slight domed head- Think Sewing machine bobbin case leaf spring fasteners.
Those vary in size- Industrial machine, "Big Bobbin" machines.
repechage is offline  
Old 01-08-20, 07:41 PM
  #15  
bertinjim 
Senior Member
 
bertinjim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 1,450

Bikes: 1970s Alex Singer, 1960s Peugeot PX 10, 1960s Bertin C37, 1973 Carre Bertin C 37, 1970s Carlton Kermesse, 1982 Peugeot PB 12

Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 342 Post(s)
Liked 262 Times in 154 Posts
krems81-

Head badge rivets from Velo Heaven? Come in 3 different sizes: https://www.velo-heaven.co.uk/collec...d-badge-rivets

bertinjim is offline  
Likes For bertinjim:
Old 01-08-20, 10:28 PM
  #16  
aland2
Newbie
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 50
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked 20 Times in 13 Posts
Use a little bit of copper wire off an electrical house mains cable to form a rivet, using a chisel inside the tube as an anvil.Toffee hammer and careful blows.
aland2 is offline  
Likes For aland2:
Old 01-09-20, 12:00 AM
  #17  
jackbombay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Portland Oregon
Posts: 993
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 456 Post(s)
Liked 460 Times in 269 Posts
Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...using a standard pop rivet is problematic because the interior of the rivet projects far enough into the head tube to interfere with the steerer tube.
It would probably work if you could find some way to flatten the interior projecting stub. The space between these two tubes is pretty tight.
I have used copper rivets in the past and just used a half round file to file them down inside the headtube after I had set the rivets.
jackbombay is offline  
Old 01-09-20, 04:47 AM
  #18  
JaccoW
Overdoing projects
 
JaccoW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Rotterdam, former republic of the Netherlands
Posts: 2,443

Bikes: Batavus Randonneur GL, Gazelle Orange Excellent, Gazelle Super Licht, Gazelle Grand Tourist, Gazelle Lausanne, Gazelle Tandem, Koga-Miyata SilverAce, Koga-Miyata WorldTraveller

Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 783 Post(s)
Liked 1,215 Times in 677 Posts
JaccoW is offline  
Old 01-09-20, 05:43 AM
  #19  
KenNC
Full Member
 
KenNC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Posts: 416
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 68 Post(s)
Liked 114 Times in 63 Posts
Really helpful compilation here, thanks!
KenNC is offline  
Likes For KenNC:
Old 01-09-20, 06:17 AM
  #20  
BigChief 
Senior Member
 
BigChief's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 3,240
Mentioned: 103 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1299 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 103 Times in 85 Posts
It can be tricky setting drive screws by hand. The body of the screw is supposed to be .001 to .002 over the size of the hole, so it has to be a perfect match. I think .002" might be a bit too tight for the harder steel used in bike frames. You would need a concave ended punch or the head of the drive screw will flatten. Then it's a 4 handed operation trying to line everything up and drive in the screw. I think you would be better off using a screw and tapped hole with lock tight or a rivet that clinches on the inside of the head tube.
__________________
Inflate Hard
BigChief is offline  
Likes For BigChief:
Old 01-09-20, 05:59 PM
  #21  
due ruote 
Senior Member
 
due ruote's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 7,707
Mentioned: 30 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 903 Post(s)
Liked 524 Times in 318 Posts
Originally Posted by BigChief
It can be tricky setting drive screws by hand. The body of the screw is supposed to be .001 to .002 over the size of the hole, so it has to be a perfect match. I think .002" might be a bit too tight for the harder steel used in bike frames. You would need a concave ended punch or the head of the drive screw will flatten. Then it's a 4 handed operation trying to line everything up and drive in the screw. I think you would be better off using a screw and tapped hole with lock tight or a rivet that clinches on the inside of the head tube.
Yeah, I bought some from McMaster Carr, drilled to their spec, and when I tried to tap the screws in, I could see the head tube was starting to deform. I bailed and just stuck the badge on with silicone and glued on dummy brass heads.
due ruote is offline  
Old 01-09-20, 11:15 PM
  #22  
Manny66 
Senior Member
 
Manny66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2018
Location: Whittier
Posts: 864

Bikes: 1973 Colnago Super, Litespeed Classic , Automoto , Pinarello Gavia TSX,Eddy Merckx Corsa Extra,Eddy Merckx EMX-5 , 1982 Moser SL, Concorde TSX, Vitus 979 KAS. Diamant SLX,60's Meteor

Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 233 Post(s)
Liked 928 Times in 319 Posts
Ive used aluminum rivits a few times. I used to be an aircraft mechenic many years ago so riviting is something im very familiar with..

I ordered some small rivits from McMaster Carr, I cut the length down because too long of a rivit will interfere with the steerer fok tube. Theres not alot of clearance in the head tube so a small rivits work best. I made my own rivit set using a piece of small round stock. All I did was use a 1/4 drill bit to fit the size of the rivit head. I then used a piece of solid round stock that I had in my metal junk pile. I put it in a vise, I slid the steering tube over it, and I used the round stock as a bucking bar , A few small light taps on the head of the rivit and bingo!
I was concerned with slipping off the rivit head and damaging my headbadge , So far Ive been more lucky than good.

Maybe if I get some time I can go take pictures of how Ive done it.
Manny66 is offline  
Old 01-10-20, 12:34 AM
  #23  
The Thin Man 
Senior Member
 
The Thin Man's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Corvallis, OR
Posts: 1,424
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 173 Post(s)
Liked 241 Times in 112 Posts
Originally Posted by due ruote
Yeah, I bought some from McMaster Carr, drilled to their spec, and when I tried to tap the screws in, I could see the head tube was starting to deform. I bailed and just stuck the badge on with silicone and glued on dummy brass heads.
Ditto to this one.
The Thin Man is online now  
Old 01-10-20, 06:58 AM
  #24  
nlerner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 17,127
Mentioned: 480 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3788 Post(s)
Liked 6,575 Times in 2,580 Posts
My standard practice is to glue the head badge back on and then glue faux rivets in the holes. I’ve made those from spoke heads and alu rod.
nlerner is offline  
Old 01-10-20, 07:32 AM
  #25  
speedevil 
I never finish anyth
 
speedevil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Western KY
Posts: 1,122

Bikes: 2008 Merckx LXM, 2003 Giant XTC mtb, 2001 Lemond Alpe d'Huez, 1997 Lemond Zurich, 1989 Cannondale ST, 1988 Masi Nuovo Strada, 1983 Pinarello Turismo

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 294 Post(s)
Liked 137 Times in 86 Posts
Originally Posted by due ruote
Yeah, I bought some from McMaster Carr, drilled to their spec, and when I tried to tap the screws in, I could see the head tube was starting to deform.
To prevent the head tube from denting, find a socket that will fit into the head tube to use while tapping in the screws. You might want two, one above the hole and one below.
__________________
Dale, NL4T
speedevil is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.