Hermes

It is true that one has to train to spin faster and can always elect to spin slower.

We used to have a cadence police at BF. This is true. They would show up in threads and profess that cadence is a red herring and not indicative on anything or a competitive advantage. YMMV

Trackies need leg speed especially for match sprints and mass start events. That is not so much for pursuit and team pursuit assuming on can get the chosen gear started although a good general metric is that trackies should be able to spin 120 rpm behind the motor.

Trackies work on leg speed via motor drills. It can also be done in smaller gears diving off the banking to get started.

I have found that there is a point of resonance at a particular cadence for me. As I approach that rpm, it feels like I cannot do it. Higher rpms seems easier once I am past what I call the resonance point.

3 years ago, when I worked out with Dmitry, he was also advising the two Belarusians on Team Sky. Team Sky was trying to slow Froome's cadence down and reduce it in time trials. They think 80 to 90 rpm is ideal for time trials and Froome was a fast spinner.

So it gets down to individual physiology. Higher cadence seems to tax the aerobic system more but generate less fatigue in the legs. Countering that is the speed of the legs can work with the heart rate to assist in blood flow at lower cadence plus we all have unique requirements.

Have fun with your cadence drills.

sarals 

@Heathpack, it was CD2, X1L with RPM substituted for power. Hi target was 118 RPM, Low target was 94 RPM, 5 minutes each x 3. I have trouble staying above 112 when making a sustained effort, still, but I'll get there. I have managed some 126 RPM maximums in sprints riding 81 gear inches at Hellyer. That gearing is considered "training/beginner", by the way. Barb rides 88 inch gearing when she's training. I'm working my way up there.

Power and heartrate were not a consideration in yesterdays workout. What I got was what I got!

sarals 

@Hermes, wow, did you hit the nail on the head!

For example, in training on the road my self-selected cadence is 85 RPM, and for TT's it's 90 to 95, perhaps. Climbing, all bets are off, it's 60 at best.

In races, crits in particular, I tend to sit close to 100 RPM. I rarely shift gears during a crit, except in the sprint, and that's usually once to stay in my powerband.

At Hellyer, oh you rang some bells! This is the new trackie talking, but I totally get that resonance or "gear bump". Once I get over that particular RPM, and I'm not quite sure what it is yet, I can spin right up. Diving off the banking really helps me right now, and I can generate that 126 or so RPM, building as I go through the turn.

Cadence does to me exactly what you describe. I've found it winds up my cardio, quite a lot, but my legs don't mind it. I'll get a mild lactic flood when I slow below 80 RPM, but if I pick the cadence back up, that immediately dissipates.

This is New World stuff for me. I'm quite enjoying it!

Heathpack 

You know, I do find them kind of fun. And they are really better done on the trainer. I might revisit my preference for doing everything on the road.

Racer Ex 

Hello everyone. Checking in with my training, which has consisted of drinking and eating my way through NYC for a week, arriving home for 16 hours, then driving down to the Bay Area for the family/holiday thing. We did walk 5-10 miles a day in NYC, which made a very solid point about exercise adaptation and DOMS. We're both tight and sore, long stretch and roll session this morning before we head into the city to take our niece to The Lion King.

Tomorrow I am going to do a long ride on the bike, likely SF to the Marin Headlands and beyond. Need to shave off the weight I packed on during my long down period. Going to try to get three solid days in while not going nuts on the eating part of things. Adding in some veggies to the traditional meat and starch menu here.

Not sure what I'm going to do about the pork chop/biscuit/egg breakfast Christmas morning.

Heathpack 

Epic.

Merry Christmas!

sarals 

On the right road, I find them much more fun than on the trainer!

sarals 

Epic indeed!

And I want to add my Holiday Wishes!

Hermes

I like to do cadence work on the trainer or at the track. And I find it better on the trainer than the road.

sarals 

I've yet to do cadence work at the track, but I'm sure it's coming!

I find any type of intervals to be more consistent on trainer, however, the road is just more engaging to me. And I'm one who used to enjoy riding the trainer!

Heathpack 

Last NY trainer workout for me this am, just a recovery ride. The bike is packed up for tomorrow mornings departure. The dog is in a panic over all the packing, doesn't want to be left.

Along those lines, Mom was supposed to move to a rehab hosp yesterday, which would have been great, at least someplace new. But a minor setback yesterday, so she's still in the hospital. Almost everybody else got sent home. Look on the bright side: at least she has a private room now.

But she's not looking on the bright side from where she sits. Sigh. It doesn't matter how long I stay, even her surgeon told me to go- from her, I get a mega guilt trip, laid on as thickly as possible.

TSS 500, IF 3.0

revchuck 

If it were me, I'd eat it. Hard to think of alternative uses. It also gives you an excuse for another ride that afternoon.

revchuck 

Today was 2x(10x45") at Z6, with 45" RBI and 2' RBS. That effin' hurt. The fact that I lost count in the first set and did 11 reps, plus did one in each set at a full minute, didn't help. It's an official OGCC (Old Guys Can't Count) workout. I was about ready to quit anytime during the second set; I'd think, "I'll see how the next one goes, if I can't hold power where it needs to be I'll hang it up," but that point never came. I've got another new acronym for that circumstance - Steady State Pain (SSP), where it hurts like a half-dozen mofos but you can maintain anyway. My legs are still fussing at me. 1:39, IF .87, only 1042 kj.

valygrl

sorry about your mom's setback heathpack, and the guilt trip. You have to take care of you, too.

revchuck 

@Heathpack - I was typing when you posted, missed what you wrote. Sorry to hear about your Mom's setback. +1 to what @valygrl wrote.

Hermes

@Heathpack In the grand scheme of things, it was a minor setback no matter how she saw it and better safe in the hospital where they have resources. High intensity and long duration guilt trips wreak havoc with ones telomeres.

Have a safe trip back to SoCal.

shovelhd

Hang in there HP.

echappist

best of wishes, @Heathpack

Heathpack 

We snuck the doglet into the hospital this morning, that went over very well. As did that cinnamon-sugar donut.

Waiting at JFK for our flight to LAX.

I anticipate podcast intervals today, as I have 90 episodes of the Cycling Time Trial podcast on my phone. Poor Ex, last time I listened to two measly episodes about wheels, it meant three days of wheel/tire questions for him.

revchuck 

Who got the donut, you or the doglet?

LAJ

No good @Heathpack.

Hermes

Great minds think alike.

Heathpack 

Mom!

Bandera

Representatives of the "Wisdom of the 41" no doubt.

Before indexed shifting, and long before those handy (pun intended) brifter controls, when committed to a attack/sprint/summit the gear that you were in was the only gear you had to work with.
( Myths of "shifting with your knee" at full-chat are just another Fantasy of the 41 in my experience. )

The ability to get "the most" out of a gear by turning more RPM if evenly matched, way more if under-geared and getting the grunt on if over-geared was one of the reasons that we rode FG miles on the road.
Cadence rules, and having a broad power-band w/ both spin & grunt on demand was our goal in developing pedaling technique in the clips & straps era.

No doubt the Cadence Police have aged out and joined the Period Correct Police in C&V now where there are equally cluless.

-Bandera

Heathpack 

So speaking of cadence/pedaling, I tend to notice my pedaling more while I'm on the TT bike it seems. Maybe because I spend so much time trying to sit at a steady effort. Or if not a steady effort, just trying to deliver exactly the power I intend to deliver.

Anyway, I have noticed (on the road) that there is a big difference in the quality of pedaling up hill vs on flats vs a 1-2% downhill grade. Probably everyone notices that.

But two weeks on the trainer with the TT bike, I could even notice with the same resistance, same gear differences in how it felt to pedal depending on how I'd position my foot/ankle/leg. Also differences in power. Not huge differences, just little nuances. Like if I'd raise my heel a tiny bit,mI could get my foot to fly over the top of the pedal, it just felt really smooth. But slightly less powerful than if I lowered my heel to pedal with a flat foot. Which seemed to give me a teensy sticky spot at the top of the pedal stroke but less power.

The reason I even noticed this was because my legs were getting tired during long intervals. Without even thinking about it, I realized that I would change things up in my pedal stroke slightly and give myself a little rest with only a marginal difference in power. I'm not sure why I even noticed this, I'll bet everyone who tries to output steady power does the same thing.

It's just kind of cool because there's a lot to the simpliest things sometimes. And the trainer is a really great place to notice things, it's almost like a sensory deprivation chamber.

Also noticed: if I put my head down rocking out to some tune- less power, I get ahead of my cranks when I do that. Amazing! Good TT position is better than bad TT position. I think we can redo the Garmin mount, move it forward a little, so that I don't have to dip my head down as much to see it.

And also: wow, I totally wind up in a way different place on my saddle when I'm working hard vs when I'm just sitting pedaling. Of course, right? "On the rivet" but towards the end of one of these trainer sessions I suddenly really appreciated the magnitude of the difference. The pedal stroke is different there too vs sitting on the meaty part of the saddle. But you have to sit back when you climb. Different things, you really need to train it all up.

No point to this. Just musing about pedaling.