Roody

We just had a thread on carfree living with kids, but that got kinda political and ugly. I'd really like to see a practical thread on bike lifestyle or carfree lifestyle with kids in the household. Just this week, my son and his SO moved into my apartment, along with my 12 year old grandson. So I need some help from others who have lived "bikeheavy" with kids, or who just have some experience of cycling with kids, whether their own, grandkids, neices and nephews, or what have you.

I will repost a little from the other thread to give some idea of wher I'm coming from:

In addition, I haven't bought him a bike yet, so any info on buying a bike for a kid will be appreciated. Otherwise, let's keep it loose, post any thoughts, experiences or memories you have about riding with kids on an everyday basis. Also raise any additional questions/concerns/problems that you can think of related to kids living in the bikeheavy household. Information about using other non-automotive transport with kids is another possible topic for posts.

Please, let's keep this particular thread non-controversial and practical. I have nothing against controversy, obviously, but there's a time and place for everything.

Fizzaly

One thing for sure like you said is buy used, I got my son a used Marin 12speed 20" "MTB" for 60bucks and a used BMX both from a LBS. They change their minds so much on what they like there's no reason to buy new. My son also has problems with direction, I don't know if it's him not paying attention or just not really caring, but I just spent some time riding back and forth to his school and to his favorite park and after a while he remembered the route. I should say I only have him half the time as his mother and I are split up and she drives everywhere. Two weeks ago while in the park he say some people playing tennis and said he wanted to try so now we ride to the park and play tennis every sunday, I haven't really gotten him to go on a proper MTB ride with me yet, he says he wants to but who knows. Just try working with his direction skills some and then when you feel confident give him some supervised freedom and see how he does. Another thing I did to get my son more into riding was having him ride with me to places like arcades, and a local water park here in town, to show him bikes are for thing other than just fun. He kind of acted like riding places was some sort of unwanted chore for a while but over the last year he's gotten pretty good with it.
EDIT: Sorry I just realized how all over the place my post was

CarFreeFam4

I don't have much help to offer on the subject of older kids, since mine are 8 and 3. My 8 year-old still doesn't really ride on his own for a number of reasons, including a complete lack of awareness of his surroundings. I'm also not very well versed in buying bikes for kids. My grandparents own a bike shop, so when we needed one, we just called and they handed one over. If there are any questions on coping with younger kids in a bike-heavy lifestyle, I'll gladly pitch in my two cents.

mellie

My son just turned 13 last week. He has yet to go more than a mile by himself. Even then, it was only to the library where he has been a thousand times. I think it depends on the child, but mine is very geographically unaware. The apple didn't fall far from the tree on that one. We are trying to have him lead the way home when we go places. Once I see he's got it I'll let him fly solo.

I'm sure you have already thought of this but I will mention it anyway. I had to teach him how to lock his bike up properly. I saw him stick his u-lock through the front tire and start to leave for the store. He would have come back to a tire and nothing else. They really don't think at that age.

As for the bus, my son rides a lot. He has a pass which i make him keep around his neck. He would forget his head if it wasn't attached. All buses here lead to the terminal so if he got lost he could just ride to the terminal and get home from there. I am more confident about his being on the bus than I am on his bike. Busy streets and fuzzy thinking 13 year olds make me nervous.

These are just some thoughts. Honestly, I wish he was still young enough to fit in the bike trailer with his 3 year old sister. My biggest problem with her is she throws stuff out of the trailer and tells me about 15 minutes later

Booger1

If the kid is like most kids these days,they don't have there head up long enough from the phone or music to know where they are or where they have been.You have to have an attention span longer than a few minutes to be able to navigate somewhere.

I'm not picking on your kid,just kids in general.Kids these days don't seem to be interested in the outside world,they live in their electronic worlds.

I bought my kids used bikes years ago and WE took them apart and rebuilt them.We had a blast over a couple of weekends,they got to use my tools and not get in trouble.They got dirty/greasy and didn't get in trouble.I explained how bearings work,brakes,chains and gears,derailers,lefty/loosy-righty/tighty,it was fun.They had no idea how to do stuff like that,you could see the light bulbs going off.

As far as riding goes,I took them with me on my bike rides around town when they where young and they always saw dad on a bike,everyday,going/coming---to/from work.They would ride with me on the weekends,a few laps around the block,laps got bigger and bigger.They know our town well now,I don't have to worry about them getting lost anymore.

Someday soon, I'll get one of them to go touring over the weekend with me,but the nearest real campgrounds are 50 miles away,so we'll see how that goes.

I rode to the beach(17 miles) a few times when I was their age on a Sting-ray,at that time,on that bike,I wasn't sure I was going to make it home a few times...LOL! So if they don't want to wander around the city on a bike,I understand,it's not for everybody.

I guess it just boils down to the kid(s) in question,some will like it,some won't.
Hell,I have 2 brothers,they think I'm crazy for riding my bicycle everywhere.

wahoonc

Just a suggestion or two. Let them help pick their own bike(s), I suspect they might ride it more. Make them help maintain it. If they are willing look at folders, they grow with the kid. Some love them others can't stand them. A good used Raleigh Twenty can be gotten for $150 or less and unbelievably durable...I KNOW I own 4 of them

Aaron

Baboo

The big thing I see wrong with having 12 year old kids riding on a bicycle in the streets is that they know nothing of traffic, when to yield or stop or how to behave in traffic. The term defensive driving has no meaning to children of this age and they have no fear. I have grandchildren this age and ride with them, but wouldn't consider having them ride beyond our small neighborhood of a couple of blocks alone. The children who ride to school around here use the sidewalks or a nice MUP alongside the main street in front of the school.

Allen

Rona

I'm super lucky.. I'm in the Netherlands where we have dedicated bike lanes and bike paths. My teens took a while to get used to it. Bike lanes here are super busy with people and mopeds. It's safer because you're away from the cars, but you still have to watch what you are doing.

They miss American food, so as incentive to go on longer trips we build trips around steakhouses. At first I tried to get them to go on hunebedden trips (hunebeds are monolithic burial grounds) and they had a good time, but they are much more enthusiastic if there is meat involved.

My youngest son's bike was a 20 dollar fixer-upper. We spent several days repainting it and rebuilding it. It's his baby now. He takes it to the trainstation when he could easily walk it instead. The oldest got his father's old hybrid and thinks it's cool. He's just not a bike person though. He'd rather walk.

robi

My kids all bike to some degree.. my oldest, now 18 has been bikign to school since grade 1 or 2, at first with me, by grade 5, ie, age 11ish he did not want me there with him....

the youngest was lazy and a real space cadet, then in grade 6 started wanting to bike with us more... then in grade 7 started biking to school some times and I could not take him because of my schedule, so I rode the route with him a few times on the weekends... by grade 8 he is saying feet are for peddling not walkign and other such things he gets from his older brother... he built himself a fixie as a school project and loves riding it..

There are NO bike paths on the 3 km ride they have to their school... they ride on smaller streets, I hope as that is the route I taught them....

Aron, the oldest, started a trend... many of his classmates now bike to work, and the younger kids who wanted to be cool like him started riding.... and several parents ride to PTA meetings and to work (on occasion) because they see me day in, day out rain or shine on the bike...

The point is, ride with the kid, if he likes biking, he will stick to it. Show a safe route, ride a few times together to know how it is going, etc.... Have fun, kids should ride bikes, it is fun, it is faster than walking and I really think the feeling of freedom is akin to getting your DL when you are 16 in the US and think you own he world and can go anywhere....

robi

Roody

There are some great ideas here already. Keep 'em coming!

One thing I liked in particular was the idea of having the kid fix his own bike (with lots of help, of course). It made me remember that there is a program here, run by an older man, where kids can select a bike and work with an adult and other kids to fix it, and then to keep it for free. I'm going to look into this. Besides getting him a free bike (parents are unemployed right now), he will get to meet some other kids in his new neighborhood. Also, frankly, it will geve me a little break from being with him in all my free time, which I think would be good for both of us.

I also appreciated the ideas about dealing with geographical awareness. As somebody mentioned, my grandson always has his nose in a video game. He doesn't seem to be totally connected with the real world. I think we're raising a generation that will be getting lost a lot! Luckily, there's an app for that.

Pobble.808

In case you haven't done so yet, it might be worthwhile running the same question past the folks on the Recreational & Family forum.

Rona

lol.... if they can figure out the maps on Assassin's Creed, they can figure out how to get around town!

chandltp

They can be taught. I rode in traffic all the time from 7th grade on. I believe we are over protecting our kids. I have to make a conscious decision to say "yes" when every fiber of my body wants to say "no", because I know I'm being over protective. I think back to my youth and remember what I was able to do and realize it was a positive experience.

I'm hoping my kids want to ride to school in middle school. I won't have them out on the same routes that I ride, I'll help them pick a less traveled route. But the independence they gain is well worth it.

wahoonc

I was riding to school regularly when I was in the 3rd grade. However! there was less traffic then and the roads were not 6 and 8 lanes that they are today. I also think drivers might have been a bit more attentive then, all they had to distract them was the AM radio

Aaron

Torrilin

That's ridiculous. Most 12 year olds are pretty competent, and they're 4-5 years away from earning a driver's license. If a responsible adult goes with them as wingman a few times, and coaches them on rules of the road or helps them work out tricky bits, they can manage quite difficult riding. It is essential that they start practicing safe road use as soon as is practicable. The more practice they get, the better they'll do as adults. The rules you're suggesting seem appropriate for my 2 year old nephew, not for a normal 12 year old. And I'm saying this as someone who was perfectly happy at 12 to walk about with my nose in a book, and I was always getting lost. Even so, I managed to ride my bike to the library and back or to the pool and back on a regular basis.

As far as Roody's grandson... at 12 he's going to be pretty near his first puberty growth spurt. I'd suggest finding him a used bike, and making sure he understands that when he outgrows it it will be replaced. Help him figure out how to bike to the library or a friend's house or a place that sells his favorite candy bar. Whatever motivates him to get out. Make sure that his bike is a good way to get away from mom, dad and grandpa. Make sure he knows that mom, dad and/or grandpa will come rescue him if it is necessary. If there are city buses, make sure he also knows how to rescue himself, and make sure he's got a bus pass so he can.

People (and that includes kids!) tend to perform the way we expect. Expect more, give them help when they fail, and they will rapidly learn to do well.

Roody

Thanks, torrilin. This is what I'm starting to figure out now, and it helps to see it written so clearly.Yesterday my grandson and I walked to the library again, and took the bus home. I told him that if he was able to show me the way, I would support him in asking his parents to let him go alone. He was able to show me most of the route walking there, and had no problem at all with the bus home. Like you say, when I quit leading the way and had him lead, he buckled down and got it mostly right. I told him I wanted at least one more walking trip before he tries it alone, and he agreed.

Last night he borrowed his dad's bike and we went on our first bike ride together. He did great! He wanted to go to a playground we both enjoy. I told him to lead the way. At first he asked me which way to go, but I just told him to figure it out. He did great! I could tell he was proud when I told him he did well. When we got back, he wanted to ride around the neighborhood by himself. I hope this is a sign that he's getting his desire for more independence back.

My son didn't come into my life until he was nearly grown, so I've never had the experience of helping to raise a kid. I have to say, it's pretty cool...and even better now that bikes are involved!

Roody

Update: I bought the kid a bike the other day. It's a big old cruiser with curved tubes. He thinks it's a MTB, but I would call it a hybrid. I paid $70 in a pawn shop, which is where I most often buy my own bikes.

The other evening we went on an 8 mile shakedown cruise on the Lansing Rivertrail. He stopped to pet every dog and play on every playground, so it was fairly slow going. The next day we went to the beach, again on the Rivertrail. With the incentive of swimming, he scooted right along. Our average speed for the 13.3 mile trip was almost 10 mph. That's not much slower than I would have gone on my own.

The hard part is getting him motivated to go. Once we leave, it's all fun, but it's hard to get started. Oh well, I know a lot of adults like that, including myself at times.

memnoch_proxy

I have three, 8, 5 , and 1. We sold our second car last year. I just upgraded my 8yo from his 20 to a 24. When we go on rides, I often have him lead the way, so as I can keep an eye on just where he is, but I just as much want building up his sense of geography.
Bike picnics have been a good way to get his friends out on rides. We've gone on some 8mi rides with plenty of stops at parks, playgrounds, water breaks. I'm typically on my Xtra with the food and wee propane grill.
We have also gone on some group rides, most recently was a 25 mile (32 counting ride to start line). I showed him a route for next month's group ride and he's again up for another 25 miler. Inviting his buddies has been a helpful method of keeping the bike in the realm of a social tool.

wahoonc

We used to routinely do 15-20 mile family rides. The youngest ALWAYS set the pace. We would plan routes with multiple bail out points. I think the longest we ever did was 32 miles. There were typically 2 adults and 4 children ranging in age from around 7 to 12. Everybody had multi geared bikes, even the youngest. IIRC he rode a BMX style bike but it had a 5 speed freewheel in the rear. That little guy would crank along at 8-10mph all day long. It was the adults that needed the break.

Aaron

1nterceptor

DSCN0771 by 1nterceptor, on Flickr


DSCN0774 by 1nterceptor, on Flickr

owenfinn

You should check out Geocaching. It`s like a treasure hunt using GPS or google satellite maps. Kids can learn to read a map, as well as a bit of history, as many of the geocaches are located at or near sites of historical significance.

My 8 year old doesn`t always like to ride but he is always up for riding out to some new geocache location.

www.geocaching.com

Roody

That's a fantastic idea, I have never tried geocaching, but I always thought it would be fun. I am definitely a geography nerd.

memnoch_proxy

Consider Letterboxing as well, which is like Geocaching, but lower tech. The form of letterboxing I know of is where you take a hand-carved stamp and mark the cached notebook with your stamp, no GPS or electronics necessary besides making a plan with your browser at home.
Letterboxing.org
AltasQuest

Roody

Better yet! We don't have time to get started this summer, but I will try to get my grandson interested in letterboxing for nest year. (I was actually going to ask you if there was something that didn't require a GPS system.)

Thanks for the ideas.

owenfinn

Actually it`s often possible to find the Geocaching locations without a GPS system by using the Satellite Map on the website. We don`t own a GPS system.