Juan Foote

I have mentioned before that I lead a Novice, or "C" pace group ride with my local club. I am a slow rider and got a bit tired of having the B Social group waiting on me all the time, new riders showing up and being shelled, never to be seen again. So, with the help of the club leaders I helped form up the new group in order to help these new riders learn, become more capable, and move up into the faster paced groups. It has been a tremendous success and has brought quite a bit of new blood to the club.

As a side project I formed up a social paced group ride in my area a couple of days a week. We have a few riders that live nearby, as well as slower riders who are unable to stay with the group for the typical fast paced weekend rides the club puts on. I put forth the group as "slow paced, conversational" rides with the focus on the social aspect as well as some really nice destinations we are blessed with having here in the county. I have had mixed results so far, mostly just needing to get the word out to more people, and also having a lot of events planned this time of year as the weather gets nicer...but back on subject.

This last ride was my best, attendance wise, so far. I had a couple of riders come out, some who have ridden with me, on these rides before, and some new blood. My intent for this ride is to be a "group" ride, and I make that clear, along with the pace expectations. I had planned a long 50+ mile ride through one of the local National Forests and passing by the side of one of our local lakes. Beautiful route with lots of good stuff to see and talk about, awesome picture opps, etc. The ride was never designed or conceived as a "training" ride.

When we left out the group stayed together for the first few miles as we warmed up. This particular route went past several river crossings, as well as the lake, so there was a fair amount of climbing involved as it dipped down to the valleys. Within a few miles the group had broken apart, and I (the ride leader) ended up being by myself, off the back, and out of sight of the rest of the group. This isn't unusual in itself, I commonly fall off the back during climbs and just ask the group to wait for me at the top, or the next stop. Well, it kept happening, with my getting further and further behind the group who seemed intent on trying to outdo one another like this was some manner of race. At one point, after riding almost 15 miles by myself on part of the back leg, and most remote part, of the route I even made mention to the group that I would appreciate them waiting for me and us riding as a group for our "group" ride. I was asked by one of the other riders to "grab a wheel" and he took off. I quickly let him know that I was unable to keep the pace they were setting, please slow down. The answer was that within a few minutes I was, once again, riding alone out in the middle of the woods. It ended up that I rode about 80% of the ride solo.

At the final stop I made another comment about sticking together which apparently wasn't heard or heeded and I was shortly on my own again, riding in the last 10 miles by myself. The people who took off didn't even know the route and ended up getting lost on the way back in. I got to the end point a solid 10 minutes ahead of them, and heard them complaining about getting lost. At this point I was so angry that I just kept my mouth shut, said a few precursory goodbyes and let them head home.
The whole ride was essentially a failure. The group took off and left me alone for a solo ride, there was no communication, we didn't stop at any of the points of interest along the route, or for a lunch I had planned (and discussed) with the group in one of the small towns along the way. It wasn't for lack of planning on my part, I made all this clear from the onset, I just got blown off.

I have considered not planning another ride, in spite of the group having grown a little from the beginning to now. I really don't see the point in making plans, laying out a route, uploading maps, calling people, etc. just to end up riding by myself out in the country like I have been doing all along.

Thoughts?
I would appreciate helpful comments.

moppeddler

50 miles with hills seems like it's not the type of ride that's going to attract slow, beginning riders who just want to tool around at a conversational pace. Try to find a 10-15 mile route that's as flat as you can find and you'll have better success. 50 miles is a long way for beginners and slowpokes.

My wife just got a bike 2 weeks ago and did her first gruop ride a few days ago. It was 9 miles and took 45 minutes with very small hills that anyone could climb. She's still afarid of being on the road, and intimidated/confused about how/when to shift, etc. Tha's the type of person you're looking to attract, I'm assuming. She would never have done the ride if it was anything much more than what it was. She's in great shape, and will probably work her way up to doing bigger rides, but everyone's gotta start somewhere.

10 Wheels

The way it turned out, It looks like the Leader was not the Leader on this ride.
That does happen on some rides I have been on.

Juan Foote

Most of the rides I plan are between 15-30 miles. We have quite a few club riders who are very capable of doing long distance rides, and do so quite often, just not as fast as the others. It had been mentioned by a few of the folks that a longer ride would be nice, so I planned it...unfortunately it was a dismal failure from a "group" perspective.
The distance really wouldn't have been a factor with the stops and lunch in between. The ride was broken up into roughly 15 mile sections with points of interest to stop and rest. None of that happened, because the group was a mile up the road...

JoelS

What you describe is actually fairly normal on such rides. You just aren't going to be able to keep the group together unless you actually have a bunch of folks in the same fitness levels. If folks want to go off the front, they're going to. You can't really prevent it. Request, be firm, whatever, but if folks are bored at the pace you want to ride, then off they'll go.

If you don't want that, don't publish the route ahead of time, and be willing to change it from the back. If they all go and leave you, change the route on the fly.

HenryL

The group was obviously not interested in riding at a "c" pace because if they were they would have been back with you. Then your "C" group could have let the faster riders do their own thing. Since they were not waiting for you then I would not plan a ride like this in the future, it simply isn't going to work given the dynamic of the group as it exists.

gerundium

if you feel these people haven't behaved in the spirit of the group ride you want to set up, and have said as such to them, just don't invite them anymore. it's going to take a few attempts to get the word out to people until the ride becomes established with a core group of people who respect the spirit of the ride.

in other words, the people in this ride weren't the intended target for the ride you planned on.

MegaTom

It seems that on one hand, a casual 'C' pace would be welcoming for new riders and other slowpokes alike... but that 50 mile distance can be Very intimidating to that crowd. I would keep at it though, at least for a few weeks, as it could take some time for word of mouth to make its way around. If it was me, I would set up a Facebook group or some other similar online 'meeting place', and spread the word amongst the club and the local bike shops. Perhaps print up a few flyers if your LBS' have bulletin boards. If I could pick up 1-2 regular riders per week, I would call that a success.

Jseis 

Huge difference between a ride organizer and pace/ride leader (even bigger differences between an organized club ride and casual "show up and ride".The pre ride talk must include a route map or description that anyone can follow so no one gets lost. In any group you'll have those that want to roll and those that troll ( ie, they are relaxed and fishing). I wouldn't sweat the rollers...but getting them lost, anyone lost and off route..I'd sweat that.

surgeonstone

One of the purposes of group rides is to find like conditioned riders to ride and socialize with. They are not to wait around for a slower rider. I love riding with similarly conditioned riders. However I ride for exercise, among other reasons, and waiting around or going much slower than I want defeats the very purpose of the ride.
Don't get discouraged, just keep riding, you will eventually find groups to ride with that are compatible.

Juan Foote

I disagree, to a point. When you decide you are going to join a ride you (should) consider the dynamic of that ride and attend, or not, based on your compatibility with the ride parameters. I am much faster than many of the novice riders who join the club ride, but the parameters of the ride are that it is a no drop ride that paces the slowest rider of the group in order to maintain it being a "group" ride. Anyone can ride alone. The whole point of creating the group was so that the slow riders can learn, meet people, enjoy the group dynamic in it's many facets.
This ride was no different in planning. Everyone knew what they were getting into, details were clear, they just decided not to follow any of it and make their "own" ride out of it.

The group that got lost were told the route, and I uploaded a map route to be available for use as a printout or as a .gpx (etc.) file for them to utilize. It really isn't my fault that they didn't take advantage of it, OR simply stay with the ride leader so as not to get lost for not doing so. I do understand what you are saying though.


Thanks all for the advice, so far.

10Wheels-If the group isn't going to follow the ride leader, and set their own, as it were, what can you do about it?

Rowan

Probably give it one more shot, and if it works the way you want, all well and fine. Maybe the renegades at the front won't turn up next time.

If the ride does not turn out the way you want, go with your gut feeling and bail from organising it.

mmmdonuts

Limit your casual (read slow) group rides to two hours. More than that will attract the wrong riders for the group dynamic you are looking for.

njkayaker

On our club rides, the leader (the person leading in front) sets the pace. People who go off the front (get ahead of the leader) are on their own. Often, we have a sweep rider, who knows what they are doing and keeps tabs on riders falling off the back.

It seems that you need to recruit someone else to help you run your rides. That person should be faster than you and manage the group (waiting at turns or on tops of hills). You, then, can be the sweep.

Keep in mind that a ride can't be all things to all people. For this ride, you might have to make a choice between riding for exercise or managing it.

qcpmsame 

I believe the replies about the distance being a bit much for the group you want to target Punkncat. it is poor form for the faster riders that are pulling away leave you after all the notices you gave them. Sounds like the riders showing up are taking the 50 miles as an invitation to ride as they please. Best of luck in getting riders to cooperate, getting a group of bicyclist to do what you ask anytime is like herding cats.

RIRview

The bike club I ride with has a C ride that's very clearly advertised as an 18 MPH max. If people start getting too agressive and consistantly going above that, the leader isn't shy about asking them to please slow down.

jrobe

Seriously, maybe you just have to go faster if you want to ride with a big group. Who wants to wait for one person.

mkadam68

If I may: call the cops. j/k
They're adults. You can't make them do anything. Accept that fact and you may find yourself happier.

Also, you asked for helpful responses and have gotten many. But in your responses to them, you seem to be justifying your actions and rejecting the advice of others.

So far, it sounds like the 50-hilly-miles-is-too-much-for-a-newbie-rider is the most accurate. While you didn't intend it as a "newbie" ride but rather a group ride, the distance & hills are not conducive to keeping groups together (just watch pro-cycling: small groups of 2s and 3s cross the summit finishes far apart). A shorter route & flatter are more conducive to keeping groups together. 3-4 hour ride, with hills? This is not a group ride unless they're all billy-goats.

Also, as you said:

I agree: on certain rides, each rider has an obligation to each other. If they can't keep up, they're unfairly imposing on the others. So what's the group to do? It sounds like you didn't follow your own advice, and picked a ride that was too demanding for your abilities, ride leader position or not. Sounds like the other riders, who waited for you at every turn, were being very patient with you.

"Don't Drop Me"

hhnngg1

50 miles by definition isnt a newbie ride. Keep ur rides 20 or shorter for true beginners.

If you actually want to ride 50 at your pace make sure you have prearranged for at least one other rider you know will stay at your pace. With a nucleus of slower riders not all will be pressured to hang with the fast guys.

If you didnt have any such partner prearranged, reality is that despite your intent, you werent prepared for your own ride if you were blown off the back all alone.

Penny4

Did any true C riders show up?

I think the suggestion of holding shorter rides will help keep some of the more seasoned riders away. And having a leader help you out is key.

One of my C rides kept getting hijacked by faster riders, and they tried to push the avg pace. Fortunately, we had a good leader who would just pedal away at a C pace and no faster. The experienced riders eventually got bored and stopped showing up.

Keep at it...C rides and "social paced" rides are sometimes hard to find. I'm sure there are lots of riders who appreciate you hosting them.

rvk5150

Man; I wish I could find a casual group like this to ride with in my area.....

antimonysarah

As a slowpoke, even if it didn't go well this time, thank you for running C rides with some actual distance. I hate the giant looming chasm between slow = must be a beginner = 15-20 mile ride at 12mph and group ride that calls itself 15-18mph, goes 18-20.

Perhaps you can have a talk at the beginning of the ride and explicitly split into groups, while reassuring people that you will be riding at the back and that slower riders are who the ride is intended for, and that they're welcome.

Another thing that might work well for next summer: do it as a series of progressively longer rides, so actual beginners (as opposed to experienced slowpokes) can work their way up, and the fast folks will be clear that it isn't for them unless they want to tag along slowly as a recovery ride.

howsteepisit

I understand your frustration. I also tend to be slow, but like long rides. Its very difficult to find folks like that to ride with. I mostly ride solo due to this.

Bacciagalupe

0) It sounds like this "social" ride is too ambiguous. If you want to do a C15 ride that's 50 miles, you need to be clear that you are running a C15 ride that's 50 miles.

1) You can run C15, 50+ mile club ride. You just have to be a stronger rider than most of your participants to really pull it off.

You also need to be very clear with the riders about the pace. Our club has a rule that unless the leader explicitly gives permission to be passed for some reason, anyone who passes the leader is off the ride, period.

2) Next time, limit the number of riders you'll take on the ride.

3) In the future, make sure to recruit at least one co-leader if you have more than 5-6 participants. You can't keep track of that many people if you're on the front the whole time. You need a sweep and/or someone who can take pulls on the front.

And FYI, for B's and C's, groups of ~20 benefit from being broken up into smaller groups. Otherwise it gets unwieldy, takes forever to get through lights, takes ages at pit stops, increases the chances of getting flats and slowing down everyone, and so forth.

4) You can let your participants beat you up the hill. But if you can't outride them on the flats, or assert your authority otherwise (e.g. showing superior knowledge of the route), you're toast.

5) Just being roasted on one ride doesn't mean "it's over." Learn from your mistakes and improve your ride leadership skills.

Juan Foote

I thought I was explaining myself, but thanks for pointing that out.