Sharpshin

Summer 2017 I found a mint 1995 RockHopper in a pawn shop for $100, hung up my '89 Schwinn Voyageur on the wall in the garage and set to riding this new bike, converting it into an all-round commuter/tourer. Raised the handlebar with an upright stem, Chris King headset, a set of NW Cycles 36 spoke Mt bike wheels I had, racks front and rear, 26" x 2.0" Marathon Plus Tours, BIke Nashbar 24-32-44 crankset, 12 - 34 eight speed cassete, wide fenders set high so as not to accumulate mud, rear kickstand.





The bike was harsh on my back tho so I installed a sprung Brook's Flyer saddle. Helped a bit. A harsh impact felt in my lower back while riding over rough flagstones back in May of this summer had me hobbling much of the summer with an attack of sciatica. I lowered the bar on the bike and continued to ride it. Ride still harsh enough on my lower back however that I began to doubt if I really wanted to tour on it.

,

I took my '89 Voyageur off of the wall, aired up the tires and rode it for the first time in a year and a half, realized immediately what the problem was with the RockHopper; besides the much more compliant and flexible frame on the Voyageur smoothing out the ride, the big problem is the location of the bottom bracket with respect to the seat. On the RockHopper, only a couple of inches different but forward in relation to the saddle. When sitting in the saddle on the RockHopper my feet were slightly forward and not directly under me, my legs not supporting my weight well unless I stood up on the pedals. On the Voyageur my feet were further back in relation to the saddle, actually supporting my weight.



Another thing that was a surprise was due to the 2" longer top tube on the RockHopper, my riding position on the Voyageur was actually more upright, an effect enhanced by the rear-set placement of the grips on the trekking bar I use on the Voyageur.



So..... now its the RockHopper that goes up on the garage wall indefinitely, I ain't a collector, likely at some point it will get gifted to someone who needs a good bicycle.

Prob'ly I shoulda comparison-rode the two bikes like 18 months ago

hermanchauw

3speed

djb

sharp, as the "TT" guy, we've chatted motorcycle stuff in the past, so you'll get this. As another old motorcyclist-this makes me think immediately of how Ive always had and preferred a more medium "sport bike" position , and even 35 years ago I used to look at Harleys and whatnot with the high bars and forward pegs and all I could think of was how it would put weight and pressure on the lower spine and keester.
Seat density and shape, but especially that balance of peg, bars position to counter wind on our body is key to long hours riding.
With bicycles, no wind support, but leg support while we ride, yet the same seat-bar-pedals relation ends up being similar, finding that right balance doesnt it?

as mentioned, you might be able to counter stuff to an extent. Be careful though of forward seat position, just check to make sure your feet arent tooo far forward of the pedals, not good for the knees, but you should be able to gain an inch or even more without problems.
You can always go for a longer stem also (a pain in the arse I know with trekking bars, have to remove tape and everything) , getting the bars ahead a bit along with seat can help.
Shorter cranks also could help, but then thats an expense not worth doing.

try mucking about with the seat and bars, start with seat and see if it gets you forward enough, then look at stem. Although I know older type stems arent available that much, you might have to try one of those adapter thingees that is just threaded "pole" with the expander thingee, then you add on a regular stem to it.
Used bike places always have a box full of older quill stems for 5 bucks or whatever.

oh, make some detailed measurements from your old bike to try to copy with your changes, being logical with what you measure.

worth a bit of trying anyway.
good luck

djb

dont forget, its most very likely that the trekking bars have a standard diameter, not oversize, keep in mind when and if looking at stems, especially if you have to go the quill to threadless adapter thing route, and then an actual stem.

Andrew R Stewart 

I would title this thread as more about fit then geometry. Seat set back is a big factor relating to how the torso deals with your upper bodies weight. It also affects how the bike is balanced/steered. I see a lot of riders with what I feel are seats too far forward, their pedals are more under them. A common complaint is hand or shoulder/neck discomfort. It sounds counter productive to slide the seat back to lessen the weight on one's hands but what happens is that your torso muscles can better hold the body up. Think about this. when you lean forward where does you butt go? It needs to move rearward or else you fall on your face. Andy

djb

at least sharp has an existing bike that he has done long trips on and knows it works for him, this is a huge help for using that existing template to reference and try to copy (ish).

oops, I read too quickly--the butterfly bars are on your old bike...got that all wrong didnt I?

could your trekking bars give you that added positional change that makes a difference? One of my bikes had them and I find I nearly always ride them "on the sides" so to speak, with my hands in a similar position to being on the hoods. This puts me forward a bit and it helps my back also.

as with all this stuff, sometimes just a small change can make all the world of difference.

sharp--I'd add one more possible detail--marathon plus tours are rather heavy and stiff tires, a friend of mine had them on a bike and I felt the "stiffness" aspect of them compared to regular marathons, and much more than supremes (a very thin walled supple tire).
of course, tire pressures plays a big part too.

dont know if that could be a factor.

bark_eater 

Sharpshin

Holy paradigm shift Batman! Adjusting the seat forward on the rails never occurred to me. Brook's Saddles have quite long seat rails, prob'ly for that very reason, setting the seat forward all the way made quite a lot of difference, thanks




.

That bike is a great commuter/urban bike, tho I might have erred towards "heavy" when having the wheels assembled. The 26x2" Schwalbe Marathon Plus Tours are the toughest, most flat-resistant tiers I've found, tho again heavy. If I do tour on it I'll install a Racktime rear rack and a Bontrager rack up front as I did on my '89 Schwinn Voyageur so as to set the Ortlieb panniers lower. I will say that frame doesn't soak up the road vibration like the slender frame components on the Voyageur. The bike doesn't seem to roll as effortlessly either.





I'll put in a couple of long rides over Christmas break to compare 'em.

Sharpshin

Yes, I'm thinking a set will be installed pretty soon, set up like those on my Schwinn. This will move the effective position of the grips back to level with the steering head.

Plus Tours are indeed heavy and stiff, stiff at least when new, but the best tire I've found to withstand my rough urban commute, I've only torn up two of 'em so far, about one every one or two years.

Tourist in MSN

Those Racktime racks are getting harder to find in USA. A few sellers still have them. But a lot of people that sold them no longer have them in stock.

ColonelSanders

I have purchased 3 Racktime racks from German E-tailers. All good.

ColonelSanders

Is your RickHopper frame made from Steel or Aluminium?

robow

They were steel at that time.

djb

They must have changed not long after, as my 97 or 98 Rockhopper is aluminum and the rear end is rather stiff--but it's great with heavy panniers and isn't flexy and rides well. It's now my "ride in snow" commuter

djb

I remember now those details. I recall thinking how the heck you wreck tires regularly.
Could you just do a back to back switch test with the wheels from the other bike, at different pressures, to see how both roll as well as comfort for you? But I guess if you need them, you need them.

3speed

Sharpshin

3speed

djb

I remember now those extra details about nails and screws and stuff. Riding in the dark a lot is a big factor also, I commute in urban settings all the time, albeit not with lots of metal stuff like you are hitting, but I do notice that when fall comes and Im riiding in the dark more, the chances of hitting stuff that normally in daylight I would see and avoid, is much much higher in the dark, so yes I get it.

just as a comparison though, I rode through a good part of Central America, about half of Mexico, and across France on the same set of 26x2in. Supremes and didnt get a flat (technically I guess I got one cuz when I returned from C.A I had deflated my tires slightly for the flight home, and at home when pumping them up a bit of thorn that had probably been in the tire for a month or two punctured the tube when it was partially deflated)
I ran over a crapload of glass in Guatemala and Honduras, but being in the day always, I avoided the worst of it, and stopped and brushed off tires with my hand whenever I couldnt avoid stuff.
I probably brought this up last time we talked about your commute, but it goes to show you your commute must be pretty bad debris wise and the dark means you arent seeing stuff well.

hey, what pressures do you run on your tires, the tour plus ones? How much do you weigh? Im light at 135 and maybe had max of 60lbs on the bike, and tended to use 45r 42f, or thereabouts, less a bit if on really bad roads bumpy wise. 4 panniers, handlebar bag and a rackbag ontop of the rear panniers, somewhat evenly balanced weight wise.

boomhauer

This pretty much describe my urban riding. I'm constantly rolling over stuff in the dark. Near the homeless camps are the worst for debris.
I'm a Mr. Tuffy tire liner believer for this reason.
I've been told this is overkill for my regular Marathon tires but no flats for 6 years from debris.
Only when I under inflated my tires did the Mr. Tuffy cut into my inner tube and flatten. My fault.
I then removed the Mr. Tuffy and had a flat within a month. Back-on went the Mr. Tuffy's. I found a piece of metal that worked it's way through the tread. It would have given any tire a flat.
I'm a firm believer that the tire liners allow some movement, which prevents penetration of embedded objects.

Sharpshin

djb

as for max pressure, I used to be the same, so all I can suggest is to do what I did--given that I tend to do the same route all the time commuting, I would use my floor pump and try diff pressures. Montreal roads are sometimes very rough, so its perfect to see how diff pressures feel and improve rider comfort.
Easy to do, just reduce by 5psi and observe and note, next day reduce 5 more.... Of course, if you have 10lbs of stuff one and 40lbs of groceries another day, it will affect things, so just use common sense.
I also would note and compare comfort AND riding time, and I soon saw how X lbs less and X psi for a given pannier weight would help my comfort immensely AND have no impact on my riding time given a more or less same amount of effort and no big headwinds or whatever that can skew stuff.

as for losing pressure, one of my bikes has shraeder and it maybe loses more air, but Im not sure, could be though. Having a floor pump with gauge is super fast though so thats why I love having one, bing bang boom and its done. Cheaper tubes sometimes lose air more quickly, but I have always bought cheapish but perfectly good ones and its not a real issue for me.

my shraeder bike has 700x35 regular marathons on it, and I usually ride with 40f and 45 rear, maybe 50r, and thats fine for my weight.

basically, doing the comparison tests are the way to go, and the diff that sometimes only 5-10psi less can make is huge in taking the edge off bumps and harsh edges that we hit on our commutes, and could very well make a big diff to your back pain, along with the other small changes in bike position etc.

its all in the details