tandempower

Stereotypically, driving skills decline with age. Ideally, by the time you are old enough to give up driving by necessity, the transition will be easy and the options for you to get around using transit, ride-sharing, walking, and biking will be safe, affordable, and convenient.

Do you think about how LCF changes as you get older? Do you know people who have had to give up driving as they age? Did they embrace it? How did they get around once they gave up driving? Do you view LCF infrastructure such as bike lanes, sidewalks, and transit in terms of how they benefit the elderly? Do you think the general public associates LCF with the elderly (along with the poor and the homeless) and this is part of why people embrace car culture as something for the young to get around fast, make money, and spend it? In general, do you or others you know deal well with the prospect of living car free by necessity when you get too old to drive?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/...=.23072211d53d

Sir Lunch-a-lot

Or beyond merely getting old - what does LCF look like when you start having mobility issues in general? As I have begun to be more aware of the fact that I am (and all of us are) "temporarily able bodied", I have started to look at homes and infrastructure from an accessibility point of view, and the outlook is pretty dreadful. From what I hear, people who use wheelchairs often become shutins during the winter as poorly cleared (or uncleared) sidewalks and piles of snow at every intersection make transportation virtually impossible to access. It's not surprising that many of the less able bodied elderly wind up in assisted living facilities after being forced to give up driving. In the short term, I can only hope that my journey to becoming car free will allow me to remain more able bodied for longer. In the long term, we will need to advocate for better accessibility solutions in our cities.

tandempower

I agree, though I hadn't heard that about elderly people shut in by snow. When I was younger I worked in a home-care service for the elderly where I would sometimes take time to take people out in their wheelchairs, etc. but now I might do it as a volunteer if I wasn't concerned that someone would try to take advantage of me, i.e. guilt me into giving more time/money/etc. than I want to. It's so easy when you're on a time-clock to just excuse yourself by saying your shift is over and not coming back until your next scheduled visit, but when you have to manage your own free time and someone is telling you how sad they get sitting inside all winter, you might push yourself to trying to be their savior when really you can't do more than you are comfortable with.

indyfabz

I am only 53. I will drive off that bridge when I come to it.

Sir Lunch-a-lot

Given that this is LCF, wouldn't that be more like "ride off" (or, more hopefully, "ride across")?

Walter S

jon c. 

My golf partner gave up driving at 87. He stopped piloting his car a couple years later.

indyfabz

On my way to lunch I saw a very old-looking man driving the wrong way around a major traffic circle in town. Fortunately, there was an unmarked police car to stop him.

CliffordK

I suppose one problem is that if I am ever too old to drive, then I will also be too old to ride, and that could be extremely limiting. Hopefully by that time I'll choose to downsize, and move to a more public transportation friendly place.

However, I think there is also a lot of data indicating that cycling in particular helps people maintain strength and coordination, so I'm still hoping to get several more years of cycling in.

tandempower

Idk, adult trikes seem to be very forgiving. You can go as slow as you want and take sitting breaks if you need or want to. I especially like the ones with shade canopies.

linberl

I'm 68, that's not young. I can still drive but I don't enjoy it. It's funny, when you retire your sense of time changes. Everyone around me in cars is in a big rush and they drive badly as a result. I bike everywhere now. At some point I'll add an electric motor. At some point after that, I'll probably switch from my 16" wheeled folding bike to a trike/recumbent. At some point after that, I'll be too old to bike. I saw my grandparents face the loss of their independence when they couldn't drive but in today's world, we have Uber and Lyft and will soon have AI cars (for better or worse). All of those alternative auto-sharing concepts mean seniors will still be able to get around to places they want to go instead of feeling shut in. Obviously, there's a financial component to accessing those services, so perhaps some form of assistance for low-income elderly will be needed. Public transit becomes less a solution for the very elderly or frail since it often involves traversing several blocks each way to ride points. I'm all in favor of auto-sharing use by seniors; I'll never forget my grandmother driving me down a street going the WRONG way when I was a teen. My parents talked her out of her license after that.

CliffordK

At this point, for me, it is about 5 miles each way to the nearest store, and perhaps 10 or 15 miles each way to get to medical services.

A little 1-speed upright trike won't cut it.

I've talked to some older folks about recumbent tadpoles, but I'm not convinced they could get in and out of the seat without assistance.

I do know of one older guy with Parkinson's with a recumbent Delta, and does pretty well with it.

Nonetheless, the reason elderly people stop driving is because they can't safely be on the road. Weaving, not checking blind spots, wrong way, etc. Some of those same reasons could make it unsafe to ride a bike on regular roads.

tandempower

I guess it would depend on the person's unique situation, but it is certainly safer to maintain control over a trike going 5-10mph than a car going 40+mph. It's also easier to get on and off an upright trike than a tadpole.

A five mile ride to do shopping isn't too bad. If you are retired and have the time, it would actually be a good exercise routine to go shopping a few times a week. Ten to 15 miles for medical services sounds a little more challenging. But driving that same distance is also fraught with risks and challenges. Mail order prescriptions and virtual doctor's visits could probably make a lot of medical commuting unnecessary. Otherwise people might have to move someplace where they can easily get to and from medical services easily without driving, like an assisted living facility.

Since people don't usually like the prospect of assisted living, it is nice to have affordable housing within easy reach by bike/trike/transit. People might still not want to move, but given the choice between moving to assisted living and moving to an apartment where they can live more independently without driving, the latter choice would probably be preferable to most people, as long as they can manage everything else independently.

Mobile 155

Had a friend that rode with our group for years trying to fight off lou gehrig's disease, ALS. He had a nice Recumbent Trike and he credited it with giving him extra years of mobility. Finally it was too much and he sold it and bought a Mobility Scooter. 18 MPH 40 miles range and you could get a top if you wanted. It wasn't any more expensive than a Recumbent Trike and the medical insurance helped with the cost.

The next town west of us allows them on most streets and sidewalks. And as a bonus they can ride them in a store. I see them all over that town and it keeps you from haveing to sit out in the weather waiting for mass transit.

KraneXL

You realize you can create your own shift (1 hour, 2 hours, etc.) which can be just as valid so long as you stick to it. Its when you start to allow for compromises is when things get out of control and people start to take advantage of your time.

Misteraz1003

Sounds about like my Grandfather, he stopped driving about 87 but stopped having car accidents at 92. That's when he was called home.

tandempower

That's something to consider. I think I would be a lot more motivated to participate in voluntary social work if I saw more positive changes in the culture as a whole. Currently it seems to me that there's a disconnect between the environmental and economic values I support and the way most people think and live, so that makes it harder to look for people who aren't 'enemies of what I believe in' so-to-speak. I don't feel any urge to harm others because of their failure to strive for positive change, but I'm not exactly motivated to go out and support society when it is so dedicated to economic patterns that dishonor the values of 'reduce, reuse, recycle' except where it suits their rigid standards of comfort and convenience.

Walter S

Maybe. Maybe not. In my case I became car free because I was ordered by the state not to drive a car for six months due to a temporary neurological condition that might make me unsafe to others. During that time some realities about how attainable a car free life is hit me and I decided to sell the car.

You certainly may be right, but it all depends on what the issue is. Old age may affect your vision, reaction times, or other things that can disqualify you from driving a car but not from riding a bicycle.

Mobile 155

I wonder how Uber and Lyft will relate to this issue. I wonder if it will not be a bigger option for people in the future.

Mobile 155

Not that much where I live. But even so it still leaves Mobility scooters for short distances. Beats sitting on a bench in the hot sun waiting for a bus and not having a way to carry groceries back or sitting in the sun waiting to get home. I plotted the Uber rate from my house to the store and it was 7 bucks. But we also have Care-A-Van that will pick them for a small donation.

Still if it were me and I could no longer drive, A mobility Scooter and a rack sounds good.

Rollfast

When I'm too old to drive my passengers will know as well.

aka Grandpa died peacefully, the other people in the car not so much.

350htrr

When I am too old to drive, I will ride my E-Assist bicycle... Except, mayhap I will add a throttle...

jon c. 

If I can't drive, I suspect I might not be able to bike safely. My dad still drives 20,000 miles a year, but gave up riding a few years ago as he felt too unsteady.

I'm still young at 60, so I figure I've another 25 or 30 years before I have to face that. By that time, everything will have changed so there's no point in worrying now about how far I'll have to go or how I'll get there. I'm ten miles from anything now, but I think that will change in time (hopefully not very soon though).

fietsbob

Not too old to drive but if you have a history of epilepsy, and have had seizures, you will be denied a licence..

downtube42

I live in Portland, OR, and live car-lite. I bike and take mass transit for 90% of my trips. But even here, where infrastructure is decent by US standards, neither biking nor mass transit are games for the elderly to play.

I was in Scandinavia last year, and good God what a difference. In cities and towns, bikes and walking and transit are primary transportation.