njkayaker

And still he managed to get into a collision that was avoidable.

Aaapops

removing sociopath drivers from the roads benefits all of us. It is interesting that some of the people don't like it.

whitecat

That guy will get pulled out of his car trough the window when he does that to the wrong cyclist. And he will get run over on foot - that behaviour is just asking for it. He was very lucky he didnt eat dirt right there right that instant. To assault someone with a car is pure ******bag style.

KraneXL

njkayaker

4 days to come up with that.

And it's dumb.

You have no idea what "circular reasoning" is.

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Maelochs

LOL .... this thread is finally descending into the deep muck of a true A&S masterpiece.

by the way ... @njkayaker did Not use "circular reasoning." Not sure who understands that, or who understands what it means (if only there was, I don't know, a cartoon or something, which explained it really clearly .... ) but hey ... the cartoon was worth the pain of the rest of the thread, so thanks for that.

FliesOnly1

I have hours of biking videos during which I pass countless riders, almost always saying "On you left" or ringing a bell, or both...and virtually none of them can actually be heard on the video. I'm just sayin.

cazzooo

Something very similar just happened to me in San Francisco yesterday. The driver intentionally waited for me at a 4 way stop intersection and intentionally came at me from a stop and rapidly accelerated at me and stopped at the last inches and gave me the finger saying "**** you". What is up with crazy car driver anger? These people are so angry and miserable. They are dangerous too.

MikeyMK

Wouldn't have happened to me, because I wouldn't have made that first move that aggravated the motorist.

Don't get cocky with people who are bigger than you.

CB HI

If you are riding a bicycle, that is enough to aggravate some motorist.
So you must be claiming to never ride a bicycle, except on the indoor trainer.

sirkaos

Thanks for contributing that thoughtful piece of rubbish. I love the "Never" added in there....

Rollfast

Intentional is a moot word. It doesn't matter why to anyone but the court. It's still hit and run.

Chris0516

Purely intentional. No SMIDSY about it.

Flip Flop Rider

people are angry and mentally unbalanced minus the car. add the car and you've got a recipe for disaster as I'm sure we all know already

something about being relatively anonymous and in traffic seems to infuriate a lot of people

I-Like-To-Bike

Conversely, some people are angry and mentally unbalanced minus the car, but add access to the Internet and you've got a recipe for instant expertise in psychiatry, and the law as well as an omnificent power to judge others' behavior in traffic, as I'm sure we all know already.

JoeyBike

I did just ^that on my way home from work yesterday. Tinted windows, stopped to let someone going opposite way go past. I had no clue if he/she looked my way or not. So...I just went around the rear bumper.

Flip Flop Rider

not sure where you're going with that but ok

this is an internet message board, and if you are denying that road rage is real and prevalent in our society then I need to move where you live

and you don't need special powers to judge peoples behavior in traffic, their actions will tell the tale

Maelochs

Wow .... just .... Wow.

First off, Flip-Flops says everyone is crazy. So ... he is crazy, "angry and mentally unbalanced" in his own words, and his thoughts should be judged accordingly.

Second, there is not always a way to judge a person's thoughts from their actions. In this case, we have no idea what the driver or the cyclist was thinking (after all, the cyclist rode In Front Of a Moving Car---fairly "mentally unbalanced" behavior in my book.)

Further ... no one denied that road rage happens. I-Like-to-Argue merely pointed out that Flip-Flop's statement was ridiculous ... prima facie. NOT all people are angry and mentally unbalanced ... though maybe Flip-Flop thinks he or she is the only sane one ... which says a lot, eh?

(And let me tell you, I Hate having to agree with I-Like-to-Bike )

But ... what he said was spot-on. None of us know if this was a deliberate attack, or a confluence of an ignorant, unaware driver and an ignorant, unaware cyclist. None of us know what either was thinking based on his actions.

So ... people who like to live in fact-based realities (even if they only do so when it helps them win an Internet debate ) can clearly see that for all we can clearly see ... we cannot see the thought-balloons showing what the driver and the rider were thinking.

In fact, if there was "road rage" involved here ... I would say it was equally at least on the part of the cyclist, as he was angry that the driver had pulled up to the edge of the road to safely pull into traffic, while the cyclist was basically running a stop sign at the intersection of the MUP and the driveway (again, look at the other cyclists who correctly stayed on the MUP and went Behind the car.)

I have no reason to think the driver paid any special attention to the cyclist at the first encounter---I have watched the video repeatedly and cannot see this "shake of the head" with which the rider supposedly admonished the driver----and I have no reason to believe he saw the cyclist at the second intersection---when the cyclist stupidly rode right in front of him.

But I also am big enough to admit that it Could be that the driver was all annoyed that the cyclist crossed in front of him the first time, and hit him on purpose the second time---I see no evidence which supports that, but I will not pretend to know what people think.

Those who do prefer to pretend to know what people think, are of course free to live in their false realities.

By the way ... considering all this is on video, what was the legal outcome of these two encounters?

Flip Flop Rider

Have you ever seen anyone that was angry, embarrassed, afraid, sad, etc.? How did you know? You don't have to know what someone is thinking to identify these things, you know when you see it

No doubt that you have seen road rage before, what did it look like?

In identifying these emotions, you are not in fact presuming to "know what they are thinking". You are simply identifying behaviors

what made the driver angry or upset or any other emotion we don't know but the emotion itself can be identified by observing it. That's not as you say "presuming to know what someone else is thinking"

Maelochs

So, Mr. or Ms. Flip Flop Rider --- how did you assess the mood of the driver inside a car with dark-tinted windows? We both watched the same video--- and we both know the driver's face and body were not visible.

What information led you to believe that he was in a state of road rage?

wphamilton

Well I didn't see anything in the video that would jump out at me as rage or hostile. I only see the car edging forward as the bikes crossed in front of it, coming from the other direction. I think that should trigger the alarm that it's likely to pull through after they pass. Whether that means go behind him or prepare to stop, I can't say but I tend to not trust them when they're pushing up like that.

Flip Flop Rider

good point. was really thinking of road rage in general. maybe the person was indifferent or distracted

KraneXL

Passive aggressive? Also, that could just mean they're anxious.
Anyway, the idea that there's a simple solution to every possible scenario is ludicrous. Sure there are precaution we can take (I ride defensively), but the best rule is to follow the laws. Otherwise, everybody ends up with his individual logic and trying to out think the other. That's really the environment when accidents happen.

wphamilton

I don't impute any emotions at all to drivers. I just look at them as machines, following a decision tree that's weighted on individual predilections (which are unknown but also occupy a small domain). You don't have to construe them as sentient at all. It works better that way.

Sorry if you have the impression that people are advocating simple solutions for every scenario. In situations similar to this particular one, I am 100% of the time slowing down and prepared to stop, and won't cross in front of him until (at least) he has stopped completely. Others swing around behind him if there's room. It is a fairly simple algorithm that improves our relative safety.

KraneXL

Yep, people have emotions and oftentimes they let it rule their day.Have your read some of the response on the Safety/Advocacy threads? People come up with these simple one-line solutions as if cycling is a straight and level occupation in a closed environment. Staying out of the door zone for example, might sound easy until somebody cuts your off and puts you in harms way. Like the lady that was riding in the bike lane.

My point is there is no one simple solution to every possible scenario. At some point you're going to have to pull off the road and that could be the time the door opens. People do wacky unpredictable things. In fact, I've experience cars stopping and doors opening in the middle of the road!


As for slowing down fine, but that still won't remove an unpredictable occurrence. And as you saw in the video, you still can't out think fate or someone with an ax to grind. The key word here is unpredictable. Meaning you can't out think it. I've had to stop completely and people still just walk/run right into me.

Its not that I'm disagreeing with or challenging YOU -- if I did I wouldn't be here -- its just that it kinda takes all the benefit (and fun) out of cycling. The problem with riding to look out for everyone else, is that it never ends, and you never get anywhere. Or at best get around very, very, slowly.

Be courteous and safe, I get that. But you can't look out for the person on your left that might go this way. Or the person on your right which might go that way. Or the car in the middle that may or may not wait for any of you. Which is to say, at some point you just have to go - that's life.