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I'm ready to admit I was wrong, but was I?

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I'm ready to admit I was wrong, but was I?

Old 10-03-18, 04:57 PM
  #26  
Flip Flop Rider
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might makes right. you should yield to cars and trucks even if you are in the right. my Mom used to tell me when driving, you don't want to be right and dead
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Old 10-03-18, 05:19 PM
  #27  
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We have a 6-lane road here with a "super sidewalk" on one side. It isn't marked for bikes at all but I guess that's the intent. I don't use it as I would rather take my chances in the right lane (I mostly ride that road on weekends and it's way below capacity then). Going the salmon direction just makes things more difficult (same thing with running).

scott s.
.
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Old 10-03-18, 07:05 PM
  #28  
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You're legally in the right unless you're technically prohibited from riding on the supersidewalk. But as others have noted, being right doesn't matter much if you get squashed. Turning cars are my biggest fear and they're even less likely to see you riding in the position you describe. I'd avoid the situation if I could. But if that's the only practical alternative, you just have to go a little slower and watch for it to happen. It will happen again and all you can do about that is try to make sure you avoid getting flattened.
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Old 10-03-18, 08:50 PM
  #29  
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You were riding against traffic, on the sidewalk. The driver was heading in the same direction as you, on this multi-lane highway, and made a left turn.

Bike riders need to be extremely careful when riding against traffic on a sidewalk. The driver was looking for oncoming cars, found a gap, and made his left turn without seeing you at all. They get tunnel vision. That's no excuse for the driver, just reality. He should have seen you, since you were ahead of him before he started the turn. But drivers don't even see motorcycles approaching on a two lane road, and they pull out right in front of the motorcycle.

It's tricky. You'd need to be checking behind you, way across the nearby lanes, for drivers that might turn suddenly. I guess slowing way down at all driveways and intersections is the safest method.

~~~

Similarly, when driving, I started pulling out of a parking lot driveway, concentrating on cars approaching from the left. I just didn't see the bike rider coming up fast from the right to cross in front of me. I almost started pulling out into his path. And I'm usually very careful, looking for bikes.

Last edited by rm -rf; 10-03-18 at 09:03 PM.
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Old 10-03-18, 09:23 PM
  #30  
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Sounds like he hit the brakes hard so he didn’t want to hit you and screamed out of fear and you flipped him off for the same reason. Thankfully you weren’t injured or killed. I ride rural paved and gravel roads so light traffic and I can hear a vehichle a ways off. I used to ride road racing style bikes and had too many close calls with cars at 75mph. I have very little city bike riding experience or urban riding so I really don’t know. Bottom line you are still year to keep on riding
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Old 10-04-18, 03:00 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by Hondo Gravel
I used to ride road racing style bikes and had too many close calls with cars at 75mph
You should have tried keeping your speed at 55 mph. 75 is too fast for a bike unless you're on a multi-lane highway.

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Old 10-04-18, 06:01 AM
  #32  
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Thank you for posting your near miss...it has given everyone a chance to consider your predicament, and to review and evaluate their own safe cycling strategies...and that's a good thing.

I'm glad you're okay.

I say, "Scan for all possible threats. Expect the unexpected. Leave yourself an "out". Always consider stopping as an option."

Questions of right and wrong are irrelevant with regards to the law of physics.
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Old 10-04-18, 07:48 AM
  #33  
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lethal events are often the result of multiple things going wrong fast. some decisions seem harmless at the time, but then, something happens, which, if known in advance, you'd make a different decision. it's never a mistake to make the right decision. such as riding with traffic on the sidewalk (in that situation) but that road sounds like it's worth avoiding. are their any crossings with lights?

does not sound like you were over reacting to almost dying

Last edited by rumrunn6; 10-04-18 at 07:51 AM.
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Old 10-04-18, 08:03 AM
  #34  
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Cycling, particularly road cycling, is a dynamic process. The belief that you can predict every incidents and easily avoid all hazards is ludicrous. There is no way that you can avoid every threat from every direction all the times. That's something we can't even do when walking. There are things happening all around us and one doesn't wait for the other to finish before the other starts. They can all happen simultaneously.

You see a hazard ahead and attempt to avoid it just as someone else moves in to occupy that space that you were about to move into. Everybody is trying to out think or predict what the other will do rather than just following the rules (or worse, make up their own rules).

So you see its not as simple as the door zone avoidance theory. Sometimes you're forced into a situation because that "out" was less dangerous than the alternative at the time.
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Old 10-04-18, 11:28 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Rootman
I too was already was crossing the intersecting street continuing east. He evidently didn't even look and just made the turn. I didn't see him because he was decelerating from ~50 mph and 4 lanes over - and made the turn with a wide sweep, crossing into the turn lane (I checked before I started to cross the turn lane was empty) without stopping and with NO turn signal.
This is the meat of the nut.

The driver should have seen the bike? Maybe ... but bikes aren't supposed to blast across intersections perpendicular to traffic.

Someone said, 'What if it was a pedestrian?" Same thing---if a pedestrian stepped off the curb Right In Front of an oncoming car, it is the pedestrian's fault.

Basically, the bike was not On the road way, and thus had no "Right of Way."

I do not say this to criticize the OP. We all know how this stuff can happen. We have all done something similarly, probably.

But ... to me the issue is not Legal right of way, but how to avoid being in the same situation again.

The rider should have Stopped at the intersection and not just blasted right through. Because the rider was not on the roadway, the rider was governed by pedestrian rules.

California law says drivers should “Yield to pedestrians and bicyclists crossing the roadway.”

Florida law adds “While drivers have a responsibility to pay attention to prevent accidents on the road, pedestrians have equal responsibility to stay alert while walking on sidewalks or crossing the road.”

Basically … if a pedestrian is crossing at an approved crosswalk, and In the Road legally (not recklessly running through traffic or crossing against traffic signals) then the car should let the pedestrian cross.

If the car cannot slow safely and at a normal rate, the pedestrian recklessly entered the roadway.

In this case, the cyclist abandoned his protection as a road user by taking to the sidewalk and would thus be governed by pedestrian rules. So … the cyclist should only have crossed when doing so would Not have caused a car to slam on its brakes.

Whether the car signaled its turn is moot … and unknowable. Since the OP didn’t see the car, he has no way of knowing if the car signaled the turn before beginning the turn. In any case, the car was coming and the OP took a glance, didn’t see a car, and assumed no car would be coming.

The OP Failed to see an approaching car. Also, the car doesn’t appear to have been making an illegal turn, so ….

All that aside …. It boils down to this---The OP should not have assumed that no car was coming. The OP should have looked more carefully.

I know I sometimes get that puckering sensation when crossing major roads because I know I am counting on drivers to obey the law and be sensible. There is never a guarantee someone won’t blast though a red light or suddenly decide to make a left turn from the far right lane through a red light.

I try to keep an eye out no matter what the traffic lights say.

It is even worse when riding on major road and seeing cars in side streets. I cannot stop for every car, but I cannot ever be sure that car will not pull out and hit me until I have passed it … and then it could hit me from behind.

At some point we all make the decision the OP made---to just go for it.

What we can do is anticipate and watch more carefully. In this case, knowing I was on a sidewalk and travelling against traffic, I think I might have stopped—but I am not sure.

I bet the OP at least slows way down next time.
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Old 10-04-18, 12:15 PM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
This is the meat of the nut.
...
The driver should have seen the bike? Maybe ... but bikes aren't supposed to blast across intersections perpendicular to traffic.
...
Except I was not 'blasting' across an intersection. This was an uncontrolled intersection as far as no cross or stop lights for the crosswalk OR the road, and I said at least once in this thread I was travelling slowly - I absolutely hate this road.

I had even looked over my right shoulder and saw the left hand turn lane was empty, I suspect the car turned from the eastbound lane - hell, maybe even the far one for all I know, there was no way I could have seen this. I could ended up in the same predicament as I was with slightly altered timing and if I had stopped fully and proceeded A mere half to full second after a full stop and I still would have been right in front of the car making the same unsafe turn at speed. I think the driver came up on the turn, saw a hole in oncoming traffic and decided suddenly decided to take it. He swept across the LH turn lane and both opposing lanes without even looking past his hood. I was right in front of him and saw no turn signal on either. the chill I felt with tires screeching as he came to a halt and feeling the heat off his radiator on my right leg was enough to make me practically sick. Had I not caught sight of him in the corner of my eye and jinked left I would now be either hospitalized or in the funeral home today.

I guess nothing to be learned or gained here, it gonna happen when drivers don't follow even a modicum of safety measures. When they take a chance in making a wild turn like that and someone's in the way then that someone usually looses, until the lawyers come into play at least. Yet another reason to stay off that road and it's bike / walk ways.
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Old 10-04-18, 12:44 PM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
...
Basically, the bike was not On the road way, and thus had no "Right of Way."
...
The rider should have Stopped at the intersection and not just blasted right through. Because the rider was not on the roadway, the rider was governed by pedestrian rules.
Because Officer Know-it-all ordered OP off the road. So OP was riding where he was told to, across the street on the sidewalk contra-traffic, and almost paid a very high price for the Cop's ignorance.

Even when the intersection is controlled, it's a dangerous situation to be avoided. Uncontrolled, BOTH parties just doing what they're normally supposed to sets up an accident.
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Old 10-04-18, 01:57 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Rootman
I had even looked over my right shoulder and saw the left hand turn lane was empty, I suspect the car turned from the eastbound lane - hell, maybe even the far one for all I know, there was no way I could have seen this. I could ended up in the same predicament as I was with slightly altered timing and if I had stopped fully and proceeded A mere half to full second after a full stop and I still would have been right in front of the car making the same unsafe turn at speed.
The quote above pretty much says it is not possible to safely traverse this super side walk section safely. Maybe it's more dangerous than riding in the road would be.
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Old 10-04-18, 02:01 PM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Rootman
So, was I over reacting?
This is just all part of the "game". If you cycle around traffic enough something WILL happen. Most times it is just how you described - two people yelling at one another. This is a WIN! You learn anything worthwhile from the experience - even better.

My advice: Be aware of EVERYTHING. Grow thicker skin. That is all.
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Old 10-04-18, 02:46 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by wphamilton
Because Officer Know-it-all ordered OP off the road. So OP was riding where he was told to, across the street on the sidewalk contra-traffic, and almost paid a very high price for the Cop's ignorance.

Even when the intersection is controlled, it's a dangerous situation to be avoided. Uncontrolled, BOTH parties just doing what they're normally supposed to sets up an accident.
Regardless of Why he was on the sidewalk ... that is where he was. And ... I might have read the story wrong, but what is seem like is the OP rode up to the intersection at whatever speed (I assume somewhere between 10-20 mph) and took a glance back at the turn lane. But at that speed, looking across several lanes of traffic, and also looking more closely for more proximate traffic ... he didn't see an oncoming car.

If the OP had stopped and ridden across .... or Really slowed ...

In any case ... my idea is not blaming someone but in the OP (and me) seeing what went wrong and not making that same mistake again.

There are so many mistakes to make, why repeat?
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Old 10-04-18, 02:59 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs

There are so many mistakes to make, why repeat?
I literally can't think of thing that I could have done differently. If I had stopped and the timing was different I could have been struck just as easily. I am more and more convinced that the driver came from one of the two right lanes and wasn't in the turn lane. And, I was travelling at about 8 mph or less. I remember I glanced at the speedo some time just before this to make sure I wasn't going any faster, there are too many driveways, streets, bushes and mail boxes and etc. along here to move any faster.
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Old 10-04-18, 03:05 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs
Regardless of Why he was on the sidewalk ... that is where he was. And ... I might have read the story wrong, but what is seem like is the OP rode up to the intersection at whatever speed (I assume somewhere between 10-20 mph) and took a glance back at the turn lane. But at that speed, looking across several lanes of traffic, and also looking more closely for more proximate traffic ... he didn't see an oncoming car.

If the OP had stopped and ridden across .... or Really slowed ...

In any case ... my idea is not blaming someone but in the OP (and me) seeing what went wrong and not making that same mistake again.

There are so many mistakes to make, why repeat?
That's what I do in that situation, but at a controlled intersection. Stop, and then I wait for a red and run the red when there's a gap! Because even looking closely at the traffic it is impossible to tell if *any* moving car is going to go through or turn left. You can't get across from a stop before a car approaching at speed can turn left and beat you there. It's literally not possible to do it safely.

I understand going contra-flow for a short distance because you don't have to cross the major street twice that way. But given the map he just posted, if it was more than one block I'd much rather be on the other side. He wouldn't get this particular problem, but there are also much fewer driveways.
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Old 10-04-18, 05:20 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Rootman
I was riding on the 'super' sidewalk (see my second post above) next to the road riding opposing traffic, protected by a high curb. Nothing wrong with this AFAIK. I've been on the other side many times riding WITH traffic and had a few cars do right hooks nearly take me out.

Hi viz jersey, full bike reflectors, riding east away from the setting sun at 6:40 or so. So, still full daylight but heading towards twilight in 20 minutes, no time to take the 5 mile detour on the MUP and slower streets. I was by this point 75% of the way home. Dong maybe 8 mph, taking it slower because I hate this street. Very limited east west corridors in this town. I was getting ansty for a ride and thought I'd sneak a quick one in after work and cut the time too close for a longer and safer return leg on the MUP.
Ahha! I figured out the problem. You had the sun behind you, the driver was blinded by the glare.
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Old 10-04-18, 05:30 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by hotbike
Ahha! I figured out the problem. You had the sun behind you, the driver was blinded by the glare.
We were BOTH traveling east, bot heading in the same direction.

This was just another driver aiming his car not looking much past his hood, saw a hole in traffic, almost missed his turn and swept over, from what I could see from the eastbond lanes and not from the turn lane. I was upset and shaken and a bit dazed by the experience. If nothing else it was just a warning for others who may perhaps end up in a similar situation. With your head on a swivel being as careful as you can be, drivers can still make you a target. So be careful out there.
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Old 10-05-18, 04:50 AM
  #45  
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Why not prove a link to the location so people can see what you are talking about?

The discussion is kind of useless with out that and it might avoiding needing to invent odd terms, like "super sidewalk".

arstatepolice/posts/here-is-our-learnthelawtuesdays-the-arkansas-state-police-wants-you-to-know-the-/360720284098326/ " data-width="500" data-show-text="true" data-lazy="true">
arstatepolice/posts/here-is-our-learnthelawtuesdays-the-arkansas-state-police-wants-you-to-know-the-/360720284098326/ " class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore">Facebook Post

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Old 10-05-18, 07:24 PM
  #46  
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Your post is perfectly understandable and describes a typical suburban hell, bordered with twin strips of pavement wide enough to invite cyclists to do other than pick their way gingerly between cross streets and driveways, constantly looking for turning drivers who aren’t looking for them. Any speculation that the same thing wouldn’t have been just as likely to occur on the south side of that street is sheer and unfounded speculation. I have no blame for you or useful suggestions.
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Old 10-06-18, 08:29 AM
  #47  
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I did the bird thing once in a similar place, wished I could take it back.

A while back, I crossed a 50 mph 4 lane street, keeping to the right a guy in a big pickup waited for me to go by.
but as soon as I crossed the intersection, he hammered down and cut me off, to turn into a business. the speed limit on the crossing street was 25. I was going 30.
A cop flipped on the bubblegum lights and pulled the pickup up over..
I giggled all the way home.

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Old 10-08-18, 12:14 PM
  #48  
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Picture a CAR going the wrong way down a street. Does that seem wrong?
A bike going the wrong direction is JUST AS WRONG.

Do you drive your car on the wrong side of the street if it suits your convenience.

As in many cases there is fault of both sides. But what you did is egregious.
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Old 10-08-18, 12:44 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by lesiz
Picture a CAR going the wrong way down a street. Does that seem wrong?
A bike going the wrong direction is JUST AS WRONG.

Do you drive your car on the wrong side of the street if it suits your convenience.

As in many cases there is fault of both sides. But what you did is egregious.
What direction is the “egregious” direction for a pedestrian walking on a sidewalk or uncontrolled crosswalk. Not that we would ever ever place blame here on A&S, but really, under what circumstances where the motorist was required to yield the right of way would YOU STILL blame the pedestrian?

Just wondering.

-mr. bill
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Old 10-08-18, 01:00 PM
  #50  
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Glad to hear you're OK!!

Doesn't matter who's right and who's wrong. If you're on the bike and someone does something stupid, you could end up being "dead right" I used to ride a motorcycle years ago (sold it when I had my 1st child). I had so many close calls from stupid or inattentive drivers that I learned to always assume someone is going to do something stupid at the worst possible moment, and I try to keep in mind a Plan B or Plan C, if necessary. I transferred that kind of mentality over to my bicycle riding and it's kept me from becoming a statistic.

Speaking of which, it's not just drivers that do dumb things. A couple (out of numerous) examples:

* On my ride just this morning, I was on a trail thru a park where the trail is easily wide enuf for 4-5 people across. The trail kind of zags as it bends around 1 end of some tennis courts. As I came thru that bend, on the "other side" some guy was jogging with his medium size dog on a leash. Problem was he had the leash extended which allowed the dog to roam over to my side (there is grass on both sides of the trail). At the last moment, I saw the dog and the guy and hit my brakes (more worried about the dog than the jogger The guy saw me and pulled his dog over. He never apologized for it. A-hole....

* Some time back, doing another morning ride, I had come up a street that provided an access point to a paved trail that runs along a creek. As I approached the trail access point (which goes along one edge of a small park area) I noticed a woman with her face buried in her smart phone leaning against a signpost on the left of the entrance. Because of the shadows at that time of the morning, I could see up the access trail, but not very well. In fact, I couldn't see that the woman was holding a ~12 ft. leash and that, apparently, it crossed the trail and there was a dog at the other end. Unfortunately (mostly for the dog as I got about 10 ft. up the access trail I came up on, and seriously surprised (what a scared look on this poor dog's face) a cocker spaniel that must have been looking to do its "thing". From the look on its face when it saw me, it was prob'ly going to be doing its thing all the way home I hit my brakes hard and skidded to a stop just short of the dog (if there was more gravel on this part of the trail I prob'ly would have hit and dragged this dog a few feet).

Apparently the woman holding the leash felt the tug from the dog and pulled the dog out of the way (too little, too late, tho). When I rode away, I heard her say "Sorry!" but was never sure if she was saying it to me or to her dog.

Ride smart. Ride safe. Stay "frosty"

Last edited by stephr1; 10-08-18 at 01:29 PM.
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