WGB 

I got a Takara 12 speed for free after it was hit by a flood. Owner had just put it outside and the flood hit a day or so later. Bike was between a shed and a tree and the flood lifted the shed off it's foundation and the shed settled against the bike. Frame recieved some paint scraping and it had rusting on the cable bosses, so paint was already in a bad way when I got it. I have been stripping it down and cleaning it - excepting the headset as I don't have the right size tool to remove the threaded top race.

Since the price was very fair I won't have an issue with a powder coating and forsee moving from the red it is now to British Racing Green. I hit the scrapes with some primer to prevent rust while it sits.

The frame has only one (1) set of bosses on the downtube. I'd like to add at least one more set on the seat tube.

Frame is Tange 900 Chromo double butted if that helps





It currently has a small indent on the downtube for screw on shifters. I'd like to add shifter bosses.

Can anyone estimate the cost to braze these on?

unterhausen

really depends, I would find someone and ask them. Ballpark is somewhere between $50 (because some people are giving it away) and $120-ish.
Franklin frames is inexpensive. Or Bilenky

Andrew R Stewart 

Interesting that I was thinking about the same range. depending of how the frame is presented and what the return is like. Also that I am likely one of the closer guys who sometimes does this stuff, here in Rochester. Andy

WGB 

Unterhausen

Thank you. I believe the bosses are spaced 63mm apart for drilling (but will check first) and then would just need the bosses themselves. Will search within driving range as I can't see mailing the frame around. I powder coated a frame this summer that only has a single water bottle holder and I regret not going the extra distance and getting a second set added. If paint was better I'd consider clamps.

unterhausen

I recently used bikeflights for a frame and it cost $25 + 5 for residential delivery. I don't see driving very far as economic, unless you are going that way.

A builder will know how to space the bosses. I never really understood why people that design cages (and cage mounted pump holders) don't allow a little slop in the spacing.

Andrew R Stewart 

The old American Classic cages were the worst in this regard. Many caged that use a strip of material attached to the cage wire (what I call "tabbed" attached) and have the mounting holes have one hole already ovalized for spacing tolerance. Some plastic (oops, I mean carbon) cages also have this oval hole feature. BTW I use 64mm spacing, which is a tad more then 2.5". Andy

unterhausen

worst case I have seen was for a bontrager pump mount. It has a wide slot for side to side, but no slop at all for spacing. Trek really isn't that great about accuracy, I guess they don't care.

Nessism

Send it to Andrew. You know it will be done correctly that way.

Worst case you can purchase the bits, drill the bottle holes and remove the paint paint where the braze-ons will be installed, and then find some local welder that will silver braze them. If they hesitate at silver brazing then find another guy. Brazing those bits is easy work and even if the guy has not worked on a frame before, it's low risk.

WGB 

Thank you all for advice! I am in contact with Andy Stewart who reached out to me and we are going to work out a few details.

Ps good call on the shipping because it would a real small box for a frame without forks!!!

Point

Dan Burkhart 

Andy is probably the best choice for you to do the job. I'm closer and not cross border, and could handle rivnut installation for the bottle cage, but the shifter bosses puts it more in Andy's wheelhouse.

Andrew R Stewart 

I was going to mention Rivnutting before but let it slide, but now that Dan did I'll follow up.

Rivnuts are what I consider to be a second choice, not a first choice. When used in a thicker then the usual bike tubing wall thickness and on a tube material which is soft (like AL) they can work fairly well. But when the tube wall is pretty thin and/or the tube material is fairly hard (like steel) the Rivnut won't always get a really tight and interlocking grip on the tube wall. I've replaced maybe a couple of dozen Rivnuts on customer repairs and found this advice to hold water (bad pun attempt)

While most of the Rivnuts I replace are on AL frames I attribute this to the vastly far greater use of Rivnuts on AL tubes compared to the number on steel frames. I've had to do a very few TI framed ones and a few carbon framed ones too. When I replace a Rivnut I add epoxy to the hole and Rivnut as an added insurance (and the only way on a carbon frame to get it to hold tight). I've done a lot of tightening of still in place but not yet failing/completely spinning Rivnuts with pretty good success most of the time. I strongly suspect many of the failures are from poor initial setting at the factory.

WBG- You should be getting an email from me about your job later today. Andy

Dan Burkhart 

While brazing threaded bosses is no doubt the superior method, when properly installed, rivnuts are more than good enough.I agree with the epoxy as added insurance, (belt and suspenders and all that) and I do add a dollop of JB Weld to the nut before installation. As they say, might not help, but couldn't hoit.

fietsbob

My Bike which retailed originally, in NL for $3600, has a dozen Riv nuts
in its 7005 heat treated Frame ..

if a riv-nut ever feels loose, it can be expanded further , in its hole to feel solid again.



I have 1 occasion (I recall) , in which a brazed in boss got loose, So,

I drilled the hole a bit bigger and set a riv-nut in it's place..





....

Andrew R Stewart 

Any bottle boss (squeezed in place or brazed in) is a great thing, till it isn't. I can only talk about my experiences and those of whom I have directly talked with.

I have to say that I don't remember ant steel and brazed in bosses coming loose. I have seen a few with damaged threads and a few with tube failures adjacent to the brazing (as in rust). But these I don't relate to the design or method of attachment but to poor mechanical work or maintenance. I have certainly seen far more Rivnuts suffer from salt induced corrosion resulting in frozen bolts. Given the numbers of each design out there and the relative fewer years of Rivnuts being in the market I stand by my opinion of their greater proneness to problems.

Perhaps we should petition all steel frame builders to ditch the torch and only use Rivnuts Andy

Dan Burkhart 

Not what I'm driving at at all.As I said, brazed bosses are the superior option, particularly at build time,but for fitting after the fact when repainting would add another level of complexity to the job, Rivnuts are a viable option.
I can see where a sloppy installation could cause problems, but that's true of any operation, isn't it?

Andrew R Stewart 

Yes but it's just that Rivnuts are more susceptible to install issues and poor in use conditions then a brazed in steel boss in a steel frame.

"I strongly suspect many of the failures are from poor initial setting at the factory." Says I agree with you in the initial install being a key.

But this isn't really what the OP is dealing with. He's going to repaint the bike and wants to update the braze ons. So I see this Rivnut/brazed in question as not being which is less effort/affect to the paint but which is the better choice before a paint job. For me to suggest he goes with bottle bosses that are Rivnuts and do the other bits with a torch is just wrong IMO. Andy

Dan Burkhart 

I think we are in agreement here, and the OP's job is in good hands.

fietsbob

Dan and Andrew are in places that apply salt on the roads in the winter,
so I can see how that may present an issue..

out here we apply basaltic grit.. when it ices up .

unterhausen

where I grew up, they mostly used coal dust in the winter. Works okay most of the time