jjhabbs 

Purchased this bicycle on Ebay a while back. Not sure I ever highlighted it.. Check it out. Subscribe to my channel if you would be willing to..

Thanks!

Piff 

Gasp! Cables routed in front of the handlebars

Interesting to look at the big brother of my '74 Super Course in fine detail, there is a big difference. I do like how shiny it is!

non-fixie 

Piff 

Funny, it looks fine in the video but I dislike how it looks in the picture.

Chombi1 

Yes, but look at how its bending the front brake cable casing forward and not curving nice and gradual to the front brake caliper......
It might be how Raleigh did it at the factory, but it does not mean it's the best way to do it....

non-fixie 

That does kinda raise the question of who is today's authority on brake cable routing.

Wileyone 

First it was the Paint Police. Now the Cable Police. When will it ever end?

rootboy 

That's a beauty jjhabbs.

non-fixie 

Probably not as long as BF C&V is operational.

While we're on the subject: these two otherwise very original '84 Competition 12's (yes, the ones from the catalog above and yes, this is how iridescent green looks without back-light) came to me with the cables routed behind the bars. I'm guessing final assembly was done by the respective resellers, according to what they (and the Cable Police) thought was correct. The one in front is a few months older, and has Weinmann brakes, as per the catalog. The second has the later Shimano 600 EX brakes. From a cable routing point of view the Weinmanns are better, IMO.

steelbikeguy

weird.... now I'm in the awkward position of saying that the UK Raleigh catalog was wrong, but the USA Raleigh catalog was right...
This is from the mid 70's Raleigh catalog that was used in the USA:




of course, there is also the question of whether Raleigh had any corporate guidelines about this sort of thing. I've heard that Schwinn has had standards for some of these details.

Regardless... I'm a sucker for the classic blue mink & silver paint scheme! Very cool!
I'm also wondering about John's impression of the ride of the Pro relative to other similar Brit bikes. I've heard that the bottom bracket on the Pro was higher than the other Raleigh road bikes, which changed the handling. Is this true??
For comparison, my '74 International has the BB positioned a hair less than 10 1/2" above the ground (when fitted with 700 x 23 tires)

Steve in Peoria

non-fixie 

Of course not. There are American Raleighs and real Raleighs ...

***** ducks ****

crank_addict

Another super machine from John. Classy color (actually all were).

The comment on cable routing and OP setup- I like it. No right or wrong, matter of fact if you look at racing pics of the era you might notice it, especially in English cyclocross. Another trend was having extra long cable.

steelbikeguy

was it mid 80's when Raleigh broke up and the bikes in the USA were badged "Raleigh USA"? Or was it Raleigh Cycles of America? I never owned one, so I wasn't paying a lot of attention.
Anyway, there definitely have been American Raleighs, but I don't think John's Pro is one of them.

One of the details on the Mk V Pro's, such as John's, is that they use the oversize seat stay caps. These were carried over to the Team frames, such as the one that I own. Mine is nominally an '82, so perhaps the feature appeared on the Pro and the Team frames at the same time.
All I know is that when I got my frame, I was unfamiliar with this curious detail and was wondering if it would be wrong to file it flush with the seat stay. :-)
(the answer is "yes".. it would be wrong)
I think I've read an explanation for the use of this detail, and it naturally relates to getting a better fillet of brass or silver between the cap and the stay. Not sure why no one else ever used this technique, to my knowledge.

some photos of this detail....





There have been reports of some vintage Raleighs where the seat stay cap developed cracks where it was brazed to the seat stay, so I can see that the oversize cap could be a solution.
Peter Weigle's flickr stream recently showed his modified method of attaching the cap that is supposed to address this issue.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/493535...n/photostream/

Steve in Peoria

non-fixie 

Thanks for the elaborate reply, @steelbikeguy.

WRT the oversized seat stay caps on Raleighs: I knew they were the sign of "nicer" bikes, so when this picture of an attractively-priced Raleigh popped up in the local classifieds and I noticed the shadow, I bought it. Upon closer inspection back home it turned out to have an SBDU serial number.

tiger1964 

Schwinn had standards for how to hang the price tag before rolling the bike out on to the sales floor.

due ruote 

merziac

@jjhabbs,

Very nice, love me some Raleigh pro's.

Looks like you're a white cable casing guy, I would have voted for black or grey/silver.

CV-6 

RE: Seat stay caps. Wouldn't it be more correct to say the caps carried over to the Professionals from the Team Frames? The info I believe I have seen is that the Pros were purposely built to more closely resemble the Team Pro frames starting with the Pro Mk V. . AFA anyone else using oversize caps, Bernard Carré was using them in the mid-60s and of course the Bernard Carré Lejeunes from about the same time up to the mid-70s,

IMG_1368 by L Travers, on Flickr

TiHabanero

I build my frames with oversized caps. I think it looks good, and not many do it. I have run the brake cables in front of and behind the handle bar. As for performance, it makes zero difference how they are routed. As for kinking the housing and cable, I have yet to see this happen.

The 79 Pro I have had since new is my favorite vintage bike in the collection. My brother has a 74 in silver/black. I have asked him numerous times to get it from him, but he refuses and lets it rot away in the garage. A real shame.

merziac

Well its that time of year, arm wrestle him, strongarm him, get the family to gang up on him, tell him the C+V police are coming, figure out how to get him on board to at least start the process.











=

steelbikeguy

that is very possible... I'm completely unaware of the specifics of when the caps appeared on the Pro's and the Team frames.
However... that's a really good impetus to dig through my archives and see what I can find. Excuse me for a minute....
....
....
okay, I did find one of Hilary Stone's articles from Cycling Plus about the Raleigh SBDU group. He says " By now the SBDU had developed a style of its own. Dropouts were drilled for lightness and the bottom bracket shells had straight slots milled into them to reduce weight. Jan LeGrand, the team mechanic for the professional team and a frame builder in his own right had before each season built some of the team frames personally at Ilkeston. One of his little trademarks was the oversize seat stay cap that overlapped the seatstay top.
Traditional cast seatstay top eyes had several disadvantages; both from their heftiness and with the need to use a lot more heat when brazing them in place. Instead, LeGrand simply cut to shape some sheet steel and silver brazed in on to finish off the top of the seat stay."

let me see if I can stick the article in here....



looks good so far...

enjoy!

Steve in Peoria

jjhabbs 

Wow.. Thanks for all the comments.. I find them informative and interesting. I have posted many of my bicycles here and on Youtube etc. The question of cable routing always comes up. I ran a shop in the 80s and was a sales rep for GT in the 90s. I find it interesting that this debate always comes up. Here is my conclusion. I went to Several bicycle shows as a retailer and as a supplier. What I found over the years is that the way the cables were routed was regional...YES regional. I went to schwinn service school in 82 and they taught us to run them in front of the handlebar. However, In my travels and going to the vegas and shows in California I seen then run differently. Also, Id go to shops that I perceived as "high end" and seen them both ways. So. I doubt that this will ever put the subject to rest but hope it gives some perspective. I also believe that some criticism on things such as cable routing, the way people tape their bars, people not lining up the decals on the rims to the labeling on the tires and stuff like that are sometimes said innocently and sometimes said out of envy. Personally, I like the cables run in front of the bar. Makes the cockpit feel less busy to me while im riding.

Just a gentle note to some. (If your offended by what im about to say, this message is probably for you.) Not necessarily to those that responded to this post. Please remember, some folks that post their bicycles on this forum are taking a risk. Some are posting the only bike they own and its their pride and joy, some post her bikes that are not high end but still are very valued. Some post here bikes that they restored for the first time. People come here to show off their bikes and hope for some affirmation because we have a common interest. I cant see any reason why someone would feel the need to tear down the BF member that may have not set up the bicycle as you see fit. Lets encourage and build each other up.
Lets be clear for a moment. This is a lonely hobby. I have a freaking bicycle museum in my basement and those in the bike club I ride with have ZERO interest in my vintage crap. Im ok with that. Thats why i come here and have a YouTube channel to talk about my crap. So, remember that before we feel the need to rip someone over petty stuff. Just saying. Im sure many of you are in agreement.


P.S. I will make a separate post with these comments.
JJ

3alarmer 

...I use a color coordinated zip tie where the brake cables cross on everything now. I'm a total outlaw bad-ass.

Chombi1 

I don't share my suggestions to tear down a bike and its owner. I forward my suggestions on how to configure things on bikes from just my knowledge on such that I learned from lots of other people (and confirmed effectiveness on my bikes) who share the love of cycling and bikes through the years.
Running cables on bikes, my mechanical sense tells me that the routing should be as smooth and direct with the most gradual bends and shortest lengths so you get the best response and performance from your brakes. It is just simply that and it definitely makes a difference on all my bikes (that's why I actually prefer the feel of my non aero levered bikes to the aero levered ones). I think that is very useful knowledge shared with fellow C&Vers tor a critical safety component on a bike. Akin to maybe telling a bike owner that their front brake shoe holders are flipped and the pads could shoot out of them unless they flip them, but to a lesser extent of being a "clear and immediate danger".
In the end it is up to the owner how they take our comments and suggestions, whether to consider them for their bikes or not but we should not be so thin skinned and get offended by these. That's how I learned how to build my bikes all these years.
If I was so sensitive about comments in these forums I would be balled up and crying all the time from all the usual comments about C&V CF bonded frame bikes being worthless CF asplosion timebombs on two wheels......

jjhabbs 

I agree with you on all points. Just asking that some be more sensitive. And yes. some are too sensitive.. Even so.. This place has to be somewhat safe. I also have a bonded First gen Specialized carbon. havent blown up on me yet! lol. i weigh 220..