Up North

+1 vote for orange.

cashwatson007

if I did buy the s4 for $1300 with the tiagra. Would it make sense for me to take the group set off and sell it for a few hun and buy a nicer groupset?

af2nr

I would have to think it wouldn't. Doubt you could take that group off, sell it, purchase a new group, install it, for less than what you could just step up at time of purchase. Not saying it couldn't happen but I wouldn't think it would be likely.

side_FX

+ I have to vote for the white. the crystal white has something in that paint that sparkles when the light hits it right. I haven't seen the orange/black combo. It's not a bad choice either.......but I gotta go white!

bt

what's the seat tube angle on these frames??

cydewaze

In my size (56)
Seat tube angle: 73.3
Head tube angle: 73.5

bt

wondering out loud here....would moving the seat 10+mm forward and maybe raising it appropriately and then putting a 10+mm longer stem help the handling you speak of and also get the saddle out of it's precarious position?

if already tried, kindly disregard.

cydewaze

I spent quite a while figuring out where my saddle needed to be for me on my last bike (and oddly enough, on that bike, the saddle position looked quite normal). When I got the new frame, the saddle position was replicated from my old bike using a tool that the LBS has.

I think the main reason it looks funny is because my last seatpost had more setback than this one does (I think the new one is something like 5mm and my old one was 20mm, but I could be wrong). But I definitely trust my LBS to measure and replicate my position (they do a lot of bike fitting and custom geometry orders). The new bike felt exactly the same as my old one, position-wise as soon as I got on it. In the end, I sort of wish I'd have kept the 10mm longer stem because I got used to it pretty quickly, and now the 100 feels sort of short. But I'll probably get used to that quickly too.

Campag4life

Hmmm. Real issue is two fold. Saddle rails are not supported as well with the saddle pushed all the way rearward. Two, this rearward saddle position puts greater leverage on the single pivot seat clamp...which tend to be ubiquitous in the industry and many are prone to slippage...especially with the saddle positioned as you have. Just eyeballing that seat mast, you have about 20mm of setback built into the mast/clamp which is the most common setback size among stock seatposts. So the reason you need it pushed back farther aside from a slight difference in setback compared to your previous bike is...because the seat tube angle is fractionally more upright on the Emonda for your framesize.
I would sure like to see you on the bike. That is a short stem for a good performance fit unless you are a smallish rider.

cydewaze

Well I went through a period of time a few years ago where I was having some lower back issues. As a result, I started inching the saddle forward and increasing stem length to open up my hip angle (along with raising the bars). While this helped my back, it absolutely tore up my quads as they were doing basically all of the work. I took the bike in and got measured, and found out that I had basically gotten myself so far forward I was basically in a TT position.

So I decided that rather than fiddle with the bike, I'd fix my back. I spend some time doing a lot of core exercizes, particularly involving my lower back and abs. I also did some stretching. I went back to the LBS and got fitted, and got a ballpark position that I tweaked slightly, which is what's given me my current position. My average speed has gone up quite a bit (from the mid 15's for my 45 mile loop to around 16.7-8), my climbing has improved a lot, and I don't feel like any one particular muscle group is doing almost all the work.

So other than mechanical problems with the bike (i.e. a broken seatmast cap) I have pretty much zero incentive to fiddle with the position.

As far as geometry goes, you're correct. I think my old bike had a 73.5 seat angle. It's more than the Emonda, but not much. But maybe it's enough to make a difference, I dunno.

bt

what you need is more in the area of 72.5 seat tube angle.

I'm surprised an lbs would let a bike out the door with the seat slid so far back on the rails.

be careful with road bumps while seated.

cydewaze

I'll also do some measuring against my spare bike. I used a 4' level and a plumb like to copy my saddle position from my other bike some time ago. Curiously, that bike also has a 110mm stem.

CactoesGel

So after 709 miles lifetime, this is how I ride my SL 6.

cydewaze

I love, love, love that paint scheme. It's actually the one I wanted, but they wouldn't let me pick! Probably not enough of them to go around.

Campag4life

Will chime in about your fit a bit. I have been riding for many decades now and still experiment with my fit and have learned a lot over the years.
To me there is a 'range' of fit that works and not a specific fit. In particular this relates to saddle tip to handlebar center.
If I were you...I would center your saddle over saddle clamp which will still provide decent setback with that clamp....I would level the rear of the saddle...and not put a level over the entire saddle....leveling the rear of the saddle will make the saddle slightly nose up...and then put 1-2 sizes longer of a stem on the bike which will give you a similar saddle tip to handlebar center.

The comment you make about riding with saddle more forward causing your quads to scream is based upon the following. The benefit of pushing the saddle forward to a more traditional setback position, yes allows the hip angle to be opened up. But here is the point. The hip angle when you push the saddle forward "doesn't have to kept open".

I will give you an example. On my road bike, if I push my saddle all the way forward I can do two things easier than if I have the saddle back farther in the clamp.
1. I can place my elbows on the tops of the handlebar getting into a TT position.
2. I can ride with much longer stem which basically recloses my hip angle and still keeps my glutes in the pedal stroke.

You wrote you need to push the saddle back to get the glutes into the stroke. Nope. You can push the saddle forward and still enlist the glutes if you get the back flatter to the ground. You do this with a longer stem. This is why a more traditional seat clamp position on your setback post on your new Emonda can be faster for you. With a longer stem, you can ride more aero with a flatter back angle and with the same hip angle as you if you push the saddle back with a shorter reach aka shorter stem.

So hip angle is more important than saddle setback in my experience. And hip angle is not only about the horizontal position of the pelvis relative to the BB but top tube and stem length that affect torso angle to the hip.

I hope that makes sense. I encourage all serious cyclists to own 2-3 stems and experiment with their fit...from medium stem length to long. Short stems on a properly sized frame for a road bike maybe good for window shopping in town but no good for spirited road riding.

Hope that helps.

cydewaze

Yep, I spent a while experimenting on the last bike, which is how I got my previous position. Due to that, I fortunately have a collection of (way too many) stems of various lengths and angles.

I measured my spare bike, on which I replicated my last setup, and it's NOT the same as the Emonda, so somehow, somewhere a measurement was lost or done wrong.

I dug up some geometry specs for my old bike.

Seat tube angle: 73.3 (identical to the Emonda)
TT length: 56.1 (also identical to the Emonda)

So that means my old 110mm stem should have been the same for both bikes. And the LBS assured me that he'd duplicated my setup exactly. I suppose my saddle on the old bike could have slid back, but had that been the case, when I moved that setup to the Emonda, it would have felt the same with the same stem, and it didn't. It definitely felt longer.

I've now bumped my saddle 1cm forward and of course I happen to have a 110mm stem that's the exact same angle as the 100.

This is how things look now:





If the temp ever gets above 3 degrees, I'll give it a spin and see how it feels. I might have to bump the saddle height up a tiny but, but a 1cm forward bump might not be noticable in the height.

Campag4life

To me, that saddle would create an uncomfortable position on the bike with too much weight on the hands. Many believe setback is the number one reason why there is more or less weight on the hands. It is actually the number 2 reason...the pedals being a platform for neutralizing weight distribution/falling forward. No. 1 reason is whether the saddle is level 'where we sit on it' which is the rear section. If you put a magazine under the back legs of the chair you are sitting in right now its the same thing...your weight will shift forward. If the saddle is tilting forward like yours is as shown, then your weight will be falling forward. The reason why many choose your saddle tilt however it due to perineal pressure. So here is an interaction. The saddle pushed back on its rails is a kluge for the saddle being tilted forward. They are related. The farther a saddle is positioned more rearward on the bike, the more bothersome the nose of the saddle is to the perineum. So the solution is...push the saddle more forward and then level the rear of saddle. This way you can tilt your pelvis in the drops with close to a flat back and not put too much weight on your balls....which is what the nose does if your saddle is too far back.
This isn't discussed much in fit literature but wanted to share this dynamic as I believe its quite important for a proper fit.

cydewaze

We'll see how it feels when I ride it. Everyone's rear end/pelvic structure is different, so something that looks weird to someone else might be fine for me. I've never had any sort of hand problems on any of my road bikes though.

cashwatson007

any more pics?

cydewaze

No more from me until I swap out the bar tape and saddle, but there must be other Emonda owners out there.

nemeseri

I just ordered an Emonda SL frameset and the estimated shipping time is mid-late January. That's the same for a fully assembled Emonda SL 6, so I went with the frameset instead. I find it kinda surprising that Trek ran out of stock well before the holidays and I couldn't find my size in 200 miles radius of the Bay Area. Sad.

zymphad

What's the verdict on strength and durability? Did Trek sacrifice reliability for weight here?

IcySmooth52

It's probably way to early to tell.

dtrain

Your frame is totally embarassed by your saddle. He's all, "WTF...I'm a new Emonda! Trek's latest frameset. Come on now."

txags92

They have been out of most sizes in the black SL6 frames since around August. I was hoping if I ordered one in the next week or so I would have it before Christmas. Sounds like I better get in gear and get it ordered if I want to be riding it next spring.