mariachi

I'm starting the process of ordering a custom frame to be my brevet bike. I would like to have a more sportive (i.e. not touring geometry) but still fit 38C tires for the added comfort. The builder is puzzled by this.

Could you post examples of good classic (or classic looking) randonneur bikes sporting 700x38C (I don't want 650B at the moment).

bikemig 

That's a pretty large volume tire for general road riding; I suspect that's why the builder is surprised.

Are you going with caliper brakes? discs? Cantilevers?

The gunnar crosshairs may be close to what you are looking for, Gunnar Cycles USA, CrossHairs for Gravel or ?Cross Riding

If I were looking for a swiss army knife that could take fat tires, this would be on my short list.

mariachi

Cantis. Yes, it's a big volume, but even big brands are starting to release bikes with bigger tires (the recent Specialized Sequoia comes to mind)

ThermionicScott 

~38mm was the original 700C tire after all. That's the size that brings the overall diameter up to about 700mm.

Are you going to be running fenders as well? Your builder may be concerned about toe overlap.

mariachi

I was thinking about 45mm fenders. A bike with no fenders is useless for me.. it always rains here and I really hate riding with a wet behind
He doesn't have any measurements from me yet, but yes that may be an issue. Although I got the feeling is more surprised in general that I want 38C tires instead of something smaller. I also want a mount for a rim dynamo and he said battery lights are easier to maintain, so he obviously has a different bike in his mind

noglider 

Where is "here?" You can put your location in your profile, and it will be displayed each time you post.

mariachi

currently in Germany didn't remember to set that thanks

ThermionicScott 

That's interesting... you'd think that with all of the fully-integrated commuter bikes they have in Germany and elsewhere in Europe, he'd grok what you were going for. Does he cater more to the roadie crowd?

mariachi

I would prefer to leave the name out of this thread, but he is in england and very british

Honestly I don't like the bikes in Germany. Everything is overbuilt and overengineered. Because that 3km commute to work might turn into a Walking Dead episode.

Salamandrine 

For "classic" brevet bikes with tires around that size, you really must look to the French framebuilders. Alex Singer and Rene Herse are the big names, but there were others.




A drop bar bike with a 700x38 tire was essentially unheard of in North America until around 10-15 years ago, with the exception of the Specialized Expedition touring bike of the 80s. OK, on second thought Rivendell started up in the mid 90s, but they were alone. There were possibly some boutique custom framebuilders.

Nowadays, there are many options. Perhaps the three most obvious suppliers of that style of bike in the USA are Rivendell, Velo Orange, and SOMA.


Atlantis - Our best selling touring bike - by Rivendell Bicycle Works
Double Cross (Complete Bicycle) | SOMA Fabrications
VO Campeur Frameset - Campeur - Frames

The Golden Boy 

You know the Germans always make good stuff.

Salamandrine 

It's funny because at one time Germany had the same sort of reputation as China does now, for cheap but somewhat shoddy manufactured goods. (fairly or not) Part of the reason for the Bauhaus was to correct this. Obviously it worked.

clasher

It's a miyata 1000, I think it's from '89 or '87. I've used it to ride brevets up to 400km and it has 700x38 in this picture. It's not quite as heavily built as modern touring bike like the LHT. I changed the wheelset to something lighter built around mavic open pro rims and was quite sprightly.


Here it is with the modern wheels and a dynamo lighting system. It's got 32mm tires in this picture.

I didn't feel like the "touring" geometry of this bike was holding me back at any point.

bikemig 

The bridgestone XO series with drop bars (the XO-1 and the 2 in '93) came with 26 inch wheels. No problem running a nice puffy tire and a lightweight wheel on one of these bikes which essentially have road bike geometry. It's a heck of a comfortable bike for a long day in the saddle. This is my 1993 XO-2; it is the most versatile bike I own:

lostarchitect 

My VO Pass Hunter currently has 700x38 tires on it. They are very cushy. It's probably overkill for the riding I do. A good thing about fitting 700x38 is it means you can also fit 700x32 with fenders if you want.

This is not the greatest photo, but you can sort of see what's going on:

non-fixie 

Roy Thame with 37mm. I might be able to fit a fender in there as well.

gugie 

Brevet and randonneuring are really interchangable words. Based on what I've seen from online forums and pictures, German randonneuring isn't at a state as it is in the US, and most are riding road racing bikes. OP (that's Original Poster), is that what you see?

I live in famously rainy Portland, OR, we're on exactly the same page here! 45mm is probably too narrow for 38mm wide tires. I would suggest 50mm wide as a minimum. Also use a mudflap in the front, one that is just a few inches from the road. This will protect your crank area from spray. A good generator hub system is easier to maintain than batteries. With modern LED's, these systems need NO maintenance.

Rivendell bikes are the beautiful mules of the cycling world, for the most part. If you read Grant Petersen's writings much, you'll find he doesn't have need to ride a bike more than 40 miles in one day. Brevet's are typically 200km and longer. Also, Grant loves to load his bikes up both front and rear, necessitating a stiff frame. The American Renaissance of randonneuring follows the French model of the 40's and 50's, with gear stowed in a reasonably sized handlebar bag, and, if needed, front panniers. This allows the frame to be light and supple. It also requires, IMO, a low trail geometry.

It's odd that the Europeans are looking to the US builders for randonneuring bike design. People like Peter Weigle, Jan Heine and others studied those old French constructeurs, just as Brunelleschi studied Roman ruins before designing the Duomo in Florence.

@mariachi, if your English builder is confused about your request, I'd find another builder. If you can't find one in Europe, contact some American builders that know and understand this style. I have no idea of your budget, but some great American builders are listed here:

M.A.P. Cycles
Lyonsport
Norther Cycles
Chapman Cycles

I'd put J. P. (Peter) Weigle at the top of the list, but his backlog is probably pretty long, but if you go and search for him on Flickr, go look at his bikes. You can use flickr mail to contact him.

I'd recommend forgetting about a rim dynamo, go with a hub one. The German built Schmidt SON is the epitome of this type, the Shutter Precision models are better values, IMO. Neither rub on your wheels, have less losses than a rim/tire dynamo model, and will last forever, essentiallly.

Most of the US builders have bottomed out on 650b for wide tired randonneur bikes. For small to medium sized bikes, they make a lot of sense. Frame design is a study in compromises. Try and make a 700c bike with wide tires and you'll run into issues with toe clip overlap, or the bike will be exceedingly long. For a taller rider that takes a larger frame, I don't see any issues using 700c fat tires.

Also, note that light weight, supple 700c tires can be found up to 44mm now.

MetinUz

Here is my Rivendell Romulus, wearing Compass 38mm tires in the middle of a mixed terrain 300K brevet. No room for fenders with such fat tires.

clubman 

My 93 Cdale T1000 came new with 38mm Conti Top Touring on Ritchie Rock rims even though the catalog spec was 35mm Michelins.
I found them unsettling under a heavy load and went with Conti 32's and later switched again to 28's. I preferred a hard tire carrying 60 lbs of gear, contrary to the current trend to fat tires. Maybe the rubber sucked then.

1Mule

My Surly cross check gets it done. though it's neither classic nor vintage. Fits 38mm with these Handsome Cycles fenders, currently running 700x 35 Schwalbe marathon evolution tires on it. Took this pic this morning before heading out on a 40 mile loop.


unnamed (1).jpg

OneIsAllYouNeed

38mm Pasela tires. Velo Orange 47mm fenders.

AZORCH

My 1971 Raleigh International with 700 x 38 Compass Barlow Pass tires. (Many of you may remember this as a three-speed build.) Although I've heard others say that their experience with tire width has differed from mine, I easily fit 38's with fenders. (Actual width on these rims is closer to 37.) The ride quality is similar to my Boulder Brevet, though perhaps not quite as sporty.

gugie 

As I found out, the 71's have longer chainstays that later versions.

And that's a might sweet build!

Salamandrine 

That explains a lot. I've read some of his writings but none of his books. I find his POV entertaining and amusing and occasionally insightful. While I've never been one to drink the kool aid, so to speak, I'm still appreciative of his contributions.

OT but I once spent several months obsessing over the Duomo and trying to figure out the secret method.

Salamandrine 

Lovely bike, and great picture too. I've got to work on my photos!!

Nice to see a 'caveman' British bike. I'm referring to the funny french article about rando bikes someone posted a couple weeks back.

My new Mercian would just barely take 38 but it would be pushing things. 35c with no fenders would be no problem.