slynkie

(this is my first venture into C&V, so please go easy on me..)

This morning I was given my pick out of some abandoned bikes. There were some kids bikes, a x-mart mountain bike, and this -


It's a rust bucket Apollo Imperial frame, dura ace ****ers, FD + RD, and shifters. Not sure what the brake levers or the brakes are. The front hub says Shimano. 56cm top tube. And that's pretty much all I know about it! The only information I could find on this frame was this thread:
https://bikeforums.net/showthread.php?t=285926

So, the Imperial was the top of the line Apollo, that sounds like a good start. Here are the rest of the pics:


















I'm really not well educated on old bikes at all - can anyone give me more info on this bike? Do you think the rust is just cosmetic, and if cleaned up the frame would still be ridable? (How to clean it up is the next question, but I assume a search will yield that info, I just haven't gotten that far yet - I didn't even have time to put the chain on a chainring - just pics!). Overall I feel like this is a potentially great find, but I'd love to hear any yays/nays..thanks!

John E

That looks like a very decent Japanese frame from the early to mid 1980s. I suspect the visible rust is cosmetic, but there may be serious internal corrosion -- pull the seatpost, the bottom bracket, and the headset and see what you can with a flashlight.

wahoonc

I'll be dayumed...TWO Apollos in one day!

Aaron

DMF 

The spot I'd worry about is the front top tube lug. The rest isn't too bad (externally).

jebejava

The Dura Ace components are earlier than 1980. By at least 1980 or a year or two earlier, the DA front derailleur had an unslotted side plate and the brakes had a vertical "rib" joining the lower and upper part of the rearward arch. I don't remember the exact years, but it could be the 1979 model year when many changes were made to the design of the component group. The large chainrings also dropped the Campagnolo NR style and had that graceful arch from the spider to the teeth (I just can't think what it might be called!). I'm not sure, but these design changes might also coincide with the renaming of the DA/600 groups to Dura Ace EX/600 EX.

The Kuwahara headset might be a price point component, but could also be a measure to avoid the DA and 600EX headsets of that era which needed a special Shimano wrench.

What does the Tange tubing sticker read? I remember the Champion No.2 set (approx. Columbus SL equivalent) as having black and green stickers, but I don't remember what the No.1 stickers were like.

slynkie

Thanks for the great info everyone!

wahoonc, the headbadge on that apollo is niiice

It reads:
Champ(ion?)
No. 2
Chrome Molyboen(?) Steel
Butted Tubes
Tange Industries Ltd

vpiuva

Nice find. Deck bleach, steel wool, and mag polish will be your friends. Is the seatpost stuck? Check the stem, too.

slynkie

Thanks - not sure yet on the seatpost + stem, I haven't tried yet (not sure I have proper tools, even). I hope to sneak away from work a bit today and start disassembling. I'll report back

East Hill

You're at work on your birthday? You should be celebrating by taking that apart and getting it gorgeous again .

(Welcome to C & V, too)

East Hill

T-Mar

THe components are 1st generation Dura-Ace. The 2nd generation, Dura Ace EX, was introduced in 1978. However, what really narrows thing down are the oval holes in the brakes levers, which were introduced in 1977. Still, Shimano produced both generations for a period, so it could conceivably be 1978 or later.

Given that none of the group is EX, the presence of the Kuwahara headset would appear to be a cost-cutting move, as it was the EX headset that used the scalloped wrench surfaces.

Regardless, it is easy to verify the year, as Kuwahara used an open format serial number on the Apollo frames.

I recall Tange #1 stickers being distuinguished by presence of blue, versus the red used in the #2 sticker.

slynkie

Yea, working...but, I work from home Thanks for the welcome!

East Hill

Ah, well try to convince your slavedriver boss to take an hour or so off and get some oxalic acid unless you happen to have some around the house...(that's the deck bleach, also used for swimmin' pools and removing rust from bicycles!).

East Hill

slynkie

Well, I've disassembled a good chunk. So far from what I can see the inside of the tubes looks good. I'm having trouble with the crankset though - I got the drive-side off (just an 6mm allen), but I can't get the other crank off. This is definitely new territory for me, so I may just end up bringing it to my LBS tomorrow to have them take the rest apart (i'm also not entirely sure how to take the headset off...or, actually, that I even need to), but if anyone has any advice I'll give it a shot first...

non-drive-side:


drive side with crank removed:


headset:


I've taken everything else off (the brakes, derailleurs, and stem/handlebars)...this is fun

slynkie

Another possibly dumb question - would it be sacrilege to have the frame blasted and re-painted in a non-traditional way (I'm thinking either a clear coat over the raw steel, or just black)?

Antipodes

Nice! I've only seen one other Imperial, and it was in mint shape. I'm surprised that you found over in NY. I thought they were pretty much just a Pacific NW thing, especially in Canada. Apollos are everywhere here in Victoria, BC. I have the model below yours, the Gran Sport, which originally sported Shimano 600 everything, excepting the headset, which is the same as on your bike. My Gran Sport has Champion #5 tubing, but yours should be Champion #2 I think. Did you check the serial number, located on the downtube, as T-Mar said. Mine is from 1981 - yours looks to be of a similar era. Enjoy it - they are nice bikes. And no, it is not sacrilege to have to have the frame painted - I had mine powdercoated a beautiful metallic orange, and it looks fantastic...

slynkie

Champion #2 is correct - I'm not sure how to decode the serial number, but the first two digits are "81". Can I assume that means 1981?

I saw your thread with the original color of your Gran Sport, nice ride! Any pics of the powdercoat job?

Antipodes

Yes, first two digits means 1981.
There are no pictures of my bike in it's original state, because I got it in a rattle-canned paint job. I then had it powdercoated. It was originally a maroon colour.
Here it is, in its current fixed-gear state:

T-Mar

Apollo had good distribution across Canada. I can attest to a strong presence in southern Ontario. Being distributed by a Canadian company, penetration into the US was much more difficult, though there were isolated pockets. CCM and Sekine experienced similar problems.

Given that the distributor was located in Richmond, it is not suprising that the populous Vancouver/Victoria region would have the highest concentration, much like the Winnipeg region has the highest concentration of Sekine.

+1. However, it is very curious that the bicycle would be spec'd with the old Dura-Ace when the the new Shimano EX version had been available since 1978. It would appear that this was a cost cutting move and might explain why we have seen so few. Anybody buying a high end bicycle tends to be very knowledgeable about the components and would probably be reluctant to buy old technology for the sake of saving a little money. The vast majority of people buying high end want the latest and greatest components.

Even though Shimano offered the original Dura-Ace into the 1980s, it was not the full group and there are a few things that puzzle me about the components. For instance, the front derailleur has the holes in the cage. According to my Shimano literature, this version was not available in the early 1980s. While the brakes resemble Dura-Ace, they are a version I have not seen. The quick release mechansim is not that of the 1st generation. Nor are they the EX version. They would appear to be some development of the original calipers or a copy. Has anybody else seen this particular version?

DMF 

Soak the join in Liquid Wrench starting ASAP. Even if you can't get it off it will help the LBS.

Yeah, you should. I believe the knurled and embossed ring unscrews. Try a pipe wrench with some shop rag padding. A pipe wrench is less likely to slip and scar than something like pliers.

vpiuva

OT, but is that an OCP rules picture or are you really that tall?

Lamplight

I'm almost 100% sure those brake levers are higer-end Dia Compes. Gran Compe or something like that. Great find!

bbattle

You'll need a square taper crank puller; Park Tools sells one. Use a wrench to undo the top nut on the headset, then a monkey wrench on the knurled circular one.

That frame will clean up real nice. I'd strip it down, sand it real well, then use some Rustoleum primer that will reduce any remaining rust back to iron and keep the frame from rusting further. It's a black primer. You can spray this primer into the tubing; may use one of those red "micro tubes" that comes with a can of WD-40 to get way down the tubes.

Maybe the resident decal maker can provide suggestions on getting a new set of authentic decals. Before doing anything to the frame, take lots of pictures of all the decals.

jebejava

Yes, they look like the "Gran Compe Superbe Sidepulls" in the Bikewarehouse 1980 catalogue scans, pg.5, on Mark Bulgier's site : https://bulgier.net/pics/bike/Catalogs/BikeWarehouse-80/

Great fun looking through that catalogue seeing the stuff that I drooled over then!

urodacus

got the seat post out yet? looks like it's had a hard life, and may never have been removed. good luck!

many Apollos in Australia too, but i don't rmember ever having seen an Imperial.

DMF 

monkey wrench == pipe wrench

I don't think that's what Rustoleum does. Rather, it penetrates and seals. To remove rust, use an active chemical like naval jelly (phosphoric acid).