squeegy200

Paul & Phil have become iconic. I couldn't watch without their commentary.

Being from LA, its somewhat like a Dodger game without Vin Sculley. The game just isn't the same

gear

You should come back to beantown for a game, Tommy Hienson has taken Most's place.

Dudelsack 

I saw that. I knew exactly what they meant. When you come to a fork in the road, take it. It ain't over til it's over. If you don't go to other peoples funerals, they won't come to yours.

I love those guys.

Six jours

Phil Liggett was an elite amateur racer who turned down a pro contract in order to pursue cycling journalism, and has been covering the sport for more than 40 years. Paul Sherwen actually was a professional bicycle racer. I'm sure that together they still fall far short of bicycle racing knowledge compared to, say, some guy on the internet who reads Bicycling! while sitting on the can, but the rest of us realize they deserve a little respect.

If I was king, P&P critics would be punished by being forced to watch an endless loop of TdF coverage narrated by Sam Posey, John Tesch, and Pierre Salinger. A few hours of that should be enough for even the harshest detractor to understand how far bike racing coverage has come in the U.S. over the past few decades.

cthenn

Along the same lines of NBC, who is this "new" guy along side Bob and Ryan Seacrest in the evening show? I normally DVR the truncated daytime broadcast and then if I have time, I'll tune into the evening show to watch more of the interviews. But this guy is sorry. He has ZERO personality, and he talks too fast. He doesn't even know how to be on TV, he just sits there looking dour, mumbling too fast. Just let Bob talk, he's a goof, but he does know stuff, and says it with some energy. Dunno, not impressed with whoever this guy is.

hodadmike

cthenn, I think you mean former pro racer Scott Moninger.

Cat4Lifer

Phil & Paul > than the rest

TerranATG

Phil & Paul are the Al Michaels & John Madden of cycling commentary.

slcbob

Not sure about that, but I do put Bob Roll forth in as the Don Meredith, sans the "Dandy" part.

Watching the opening act to Stage 2 coverage I saw everything to love/hate about P&P. Phil simply couldn't get his pick to win out of his mouth, stumbling through the whole Matt/Mark/your pick/my pick thing, Paul pulled him through the difficulty, then they graciously deflected a line of commentary without coming out and saying Tyler Farrar doesn't quite have it, and moved on to do a good job of recap and travelogue for a while before the racing action and halfzheimers kicked back in.

qcpmsame 

+1, Phil and Paul and Bob are great at what they have to work with. The experts here will straighten them out I am sure.

DXchulo

I don't think Al Michaels deserves that insult.

pigah

American announcing of non mainstream sports (bicycling, track and field, swimming, soccer to a lesser extent) all suffer from the same problem. The audience is assumed to be ill informed and the announcers are constantly reintroducing the whole sport. Can you imagine if basketball announcers explained why fouls are called in basketball every game?

DLBroox

I totally agree with this and wanted to mention Madden myself. I loved him. I once watched one game while he hijacked the broadcast to figure out where the leg heaters were plugged in. As he spoke the camera man traced the path of the cords all the way to the generators. It was pure Madden. That's exactly what it's like to listen to Paul.

Keith99

Excellent point.

They also do not have the advantage of other announcers to learn from. They don't get to see what worked for others in the same sport with a similar audience. Almost by definition when there are a significant number of announcers the audience is presumed to be informed.

I happen to know a lot about the talent for a lot of the Rugby matches in the U.S. Dallen Stanford and Brian Visard are mainstays as announcers. I've seen both make mistakes. Both are very experienced players. Both played for the U.S. national side.

Everyone makes mistakes. I know neither of them is the most knowledgeable of the people invovled. No insult to either, just that the best player is not always the most informed.

I also know the producer. For american football there is a huge support staff. For rugby, it is the guys on camera and the producer. No spotters, no dedicated research staff. My bet is it is the same or at least close for cycling. They are calling it cold, perhaps a spotting staff of one or 2 at the most.

They do not work under the same conditions as announcers for mainstream sports.

Racer Ex 

It never gets old:

https://www.xtranormal.com/watch/5710...verage-preview

Give them credit. Without spending hours fawning over Lance they have to actually try to come up with something to say about the race. I don't believe they mentioned Lance once so far. Odd.

Some doozies from today:

"The roads are so narrow they have nowhere to crash"

And yet they crashed.

"I'm sure he wants to win today's stage"

As opposed to the riders that don't.

"Look at the pain on his face"

I'm blind. Thanks for pointing that out.

cthenn

OK, then the guy who is terrible on TV has a name now . He may have been something in his career the vast majority of us wish we could be, but that doesn't mean he should be on TV. Just my opinion though...

Six jours

Well, you guys asked for it. European bicycle racing coverage in America, circa 1989.


Keep criticizing Phil and Paul and I'll go to your house and make you watch this clip a la A Clockwork Orange.

Walter

I remember when ABC introduced their Wide World of Sports with an ad that said in so many words: "Greg LeMond has just won the TdF in a record 8 seconds. Tune in at ___PM."

And you guys complain about spoilers?


Well they had to find a wide spot in the road.

chasm54

LOL. That it truly wonderful. Especially the focus on toy soldiers.

Dudelsack 

Great little video. France was involved in a few wars? Who knew?

Until recently Olympic coverage was full of that kind of crap. Only in the past few years have they allowed us to enjoy the competition instead of having to listen to sob stories about the athlete's childhood and see photos of their grandmothers, hobbled over by arthritis, sweeping dirt off the stairs of their squalid shack somewhere (in Switzerland).

Sea Green Sky

No, not senile. Go back and watch a Tour from the 80's, Phil was pretty much the same then as well (he never shut up back then either).

Phil and Paul always remind me of these two for some reason.



I much prefer the Eurosport or SBS broadcasts, but those take time to acquire.

gpsblake

I think Phil and Paul do a great job, considering they are looking at the same feed as we are, it's hard to pick out who is who on those pictures. I like Bobke also but the other 2 guys who come on for prime time coverage aren't that good.

Cat4Lifer

I watched all of the ABC TDF coverage in 1989 (as well as ESPN's) and I don't remember them spoiling Lemond's win.
And Wide World of Sports aired on Saturday afternoons, don't see how they could have spoiled Lemond's win on Sunday.
Anyway, the best edited coverage was done by CBS; they sent their own camera-men, and Phil was at his best.
The '87 TDF was the first I had watched.

seypat

What exactly are the detractors wanting from the play by play? For me they do a great job. Here's what I want out of the announcing crew. I want them to be like a couple of buddies that are with me watching the event. We get there and they set the table. Then we watch the event. There are the usual comments about the background such as the scenery, people watching, team kits, etc. And there is some commentary about the event itself. I am allowed to watch the event and form my own opinion.

That is what P & P do for me. Throw in Bob and his informative/goofy comments and commercials and you have a good broadcast for me. If there is anything I would like to see eliminated, it would be that annoying Pro Form stationary bike commercial.

But that's just my opinion.

nondes 

How did we get this far in the thread without hearing about Phil's

"He's unpacking the suitcase of pain..."?