deacon mark

chainwhip

...YOU just said "clinchers are great".

"There are some tools , neat as bones."

Some older tech works really, really well.
The testing and development cycle is long, and speaks well with regards to simplicity, durability, and performance(at a certain level).

ThermionicScott 

I had to look up that reference. Apparently Socrates didn't foresee that we would start completely switching tracks once we had perfected something.

joelcool

I tried tubeless on my road bike. My first puncture sprayed sealant all over my bike, water bottle and me. Took me far more time to clean up the mess than it would have to change the tube out.

Went back to conti 4ks and won't be looking back any time soon.

Sooooo… WOW CLINCHERS ARE GREAT!

TMonk

clinchers + butyl tubes on my daily driver (Giant TCR)
race clinches + latex tubes on my race bike (Spesh. Venge)
tubulars on my track bike (Dolan)
tubeless on my MTB (Ritchey)

So it depends on the application! And like you @deacon mark. I wouldn't have it any other way

FlashBazbo

End of analysis. If you rarely flat, there is no reason to go tubeless. Tubeless with sealant are heavier and they require more periodic maintenance. Maintenance-wise, the tipping point is somewhere around 12 pinhole flats per year. Why? Because every month, you've got to deflate your tubeless, check the goop level, top up the goop (adding still MORE weight to your tire), and re-inflate. Roughly the same degree of effort as changing a tube. And you can't count cuts, because cuts destroy both types of tires. So, if you have fewer than 12 pinhole flats per year . . . don't do tubeless. Tubed clinchers are GREAT!

Seattle Forrest

My tubeless tires haven't come off since maybe October? It's starting to get nice out some days and I'm riding more ... am I going to lose some teeth?

Edit to add: I love my tubeless setup. I've loved great tube setups too. Good rubber is where it's at.

datlas 

Wow, clinchers are great!

/thread

tagaproject6

Wow, clinchers are great!

Bah Humbug

That was exactly my experience as well, though I also dabble with Corsa G+ tires.

79pmooney

One of those events will cover the cost of a lot of sewups. I rolled a clincher off at 25 mph, broke my collarbone, a rib (might have been just cracked; I didn't have it X-rayed), got an acre of road rash and hit my helmet hard. Rear tire, I rode the bike like I was on black ice for about 25 years doing my best to stay away fror the curb that was both downhill (road crown) and outside (gentle corner). All was going well until the tire jammed in the seatstays. Doing that crash at 50 is one of my recurring nightmares. By contrast, I've blown a sewup at over 40. No big deal (except for the HR spike!)

I knew I broke (a) rib(s). The routine is that they do several chest X-rays, say there isn't a lot they can do, come back in two week for followup where you get them again. I;'ve had two much radiation already. So I kept mouth shut. I did say yes to "does it hut to breath?" When I went back to the orthopedist for my final visit, he mentioned I broke a rib. I asked him how he knew. "It hurts to breath." I told him why I kept my mouth shut and he laughed. (We got along well.)

I live where we have real descents. Just outside Portland. Several 1000'ers at various grade. 15 miles south are the Chehalems where I've done a whisker under 50 on my less than fastest bike. On roughly alternate years, Cycle Oregon does the week-long ride in real mountains.

I'm hoping to make the switch to tubulars before that tire comes off. If I do, I will never know if I was being smart. If I don't and it does, I will get and extremely painful reminder that I made a poor choice. (But smart or otherwise, I will get to ride on that magic carpet again.)

Ben

WhyFi

100% agree.

And this I find suspect.

I check my sealant every 6 weeks and that's being particularly... particular. I've never had to add to the front more than once per tire. The rear, which obv sees more flats, usually needs to be topped off every other 6-week check.

In terms of effort, checking the level through the valve stem with a dipstick, topping off and filling up with a track pump is a painless 3 min operation - way easier than levering off one side of the tire, checking for debris, changing the tube, re-mounting and then re-inflating with a mini-pump (CO2 has the advantage here). There's also something to said about picking the time and place of your battleground - at the end of the day with a beer in hand beats the hell out of having your ride interrupted and getting beat down by the sun or being bitten by mosquitoes on the side of the road.

Given the above, I'd put my break-even point at somewhere around 6 flats per year at the outset and lowering it 4 or so after becoming proficient (admittedly, the learning curve can be a pain in the ass).

Psimet2001 

Agreed but I would even go a step further:

Training bike: Clinchers with butyl - tubeless only if you live in an area with goathead thorns otherwise no way.
Crit Bike: Tubulars. 50/60mm deep. 24/28 spoke
Road Race: Race clinchers/latex tube
Track: Tubulars
Cyclocross (racing): Tubulars
Cyclocross Training/Gravel/Adventure: Wide bodied tires - tubeless
mtb: no thanks.... but yeah - tubeless.

Psimet2001 

Reading this I am reminded of the time a rider put on a brand new Schwalbe 1 or whatever they call it - road race clincher just before the Glencoe Grand Prix. He was a monster slab of beef who was a straight up midwest crit racer if you had to close your eyes and picture one. He came into the last turn in the 2/3 race in like 3rd or 4th wheel. Perfect place. sidewall/bead blows out of the tire mid turn. He ate the barricades at close to 30 mph. He was so upset. He kept complaining to me like it was some sort of horrible thing that these fell apart in the first ride and they were supposed to be top end tires. All I could do was say, "I told you never to trust Schwalbe".

Remember seeing almost the same thing happen on a brand new Conti GP4000SII as well. Bigger racer - hit the corner hot. Tire casing has a few of those strings on the casing pull away like Contis do and the casing just let the bead go mid turn. That was the same season that same rider had the business idea to package together a "road rash kit" to sell to racers. "Seriously it will sell great. there's a huge market and it's impossible to find all the tagederm and stuff you need to clean it right and heal quick" - "no man - you just wreck more than others do.The market isn't that big."

rubiksoval

A tube?! Butyl?

Are you sure you're a serious cyclist?



Tubeless and tubular are two completely different things. A serious cyclist would know that...

rubiksoval

I've never had a problem with GP4000s, but I used the Pro 1 for a few races. Twice it rained mid race and twice in those crit races the course went over brick and those tires had zero grip. I dropped out of both, the second time after going straight through a barrier because I couldn't' turn. I put two and two together then and haven't touched those tires since. No more Schwalbe for me!

delbiker1 

Never tried tubeless, never had a reason to. The past three years I have 14,000 to 15,000 total miles on my bikes. I have had 7 flats in that time. I use good quality tires that usually get changed in the 2,000 to 3,000 mile mark. The tires on my commuter/errands bike get switched back and forth with 28 mm to 37 mm tires, depending on the weather conditions and the type of riding I will be doing. I have not had a flat on that bike in the last 2 years, maybe even 3 years. I love clinchers!

cycledogg

TT Bike = Tubulars

PepeM

Why not tubulars for RR?

DrIsotope

By the time one of my tires comes out of service, there will be 40-50 puncture marks on the carcass, primarily from goatheads. Seeing as I wear out a rear tire in 5-6 months, tubeless is how I avoid getting a 2+ flats a week.

If a space beam shot down and eradicated tribulus terrestris overnight, I would gladly go back to tubes. This is what the tubeless haters largely seem to miss-- I'm not running tubeless tires because it's super neato and I get a good feeling from it.

I just replaced a worn out tire with 5,800 miles on it, that had never so much as needed air added to it during a ride. By contrast, when I got my Cervelo, it came with tubed Mavics, and I got three flats in ten days. So yeah, clinchers are great. But not here.

ljsense

This is right on. If you're in an area where each season has maybe 2 road races, and you can tell them apart from the 14 crits only in that they have a centerline rule and longer laps, I'd say just run those 50/60 tubulars for them too.

TimothyH

Upgrade to Vittoria Rubino G+ Speed and put the past behind you.


-Tim-

Trsnrtr

Check sealant once a month? I must be doing something wrong. I checked a pair recently that had been on 3 months and both yielded the same amount as when installed. Checked with a calibrated syringe. Granted, I only run tubeless in the Illinois winter on a set of winter wheels so maybe the sealant doesn't last as long in the summer?

#orangeseal

Cyclist0108

I thought clinchers with sealant and no tubes were still clinchers.

Rides4Beer

BRR lists them as heavier with higher rolling resistance, but how's the real world feel compared to GP4Ks? I've had good luck with GP4Ks, and I'm loving the new GP5Ks, but the price on the Rubino G+ is nice, might be worth a try when my GP5Ks wear out.