What qualities for a dual-purpose Road-Commuter / Gravel-Adventure bike?
04-25-17, 05:30 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
What qualities for a dual-purpose Road-Commuter / Gravel-Adventure bike?
In a quest to find the mythical "one bike to rule them all" (well, almost), what qualities and features would you look for in a bike that would be a fast endurance-style road bike, sturdy commuter, and capable gravel/adventure bike?
From my limited knowledge, I would consider the following:
1) comfortable geometry - longish wheelbase, tall head-tube, medium-low bottom bracket, long-ish trail.
2) Ability to happily run tires from 28-40mm width
3) Hydrualic disk brakes
4) Braze-ons for fenders and racks
5) Flexible gearing (50-34/11-32, 1x11 10-42)
6) Moderatly light weight (say <9kg naked).
Is Carbon fiber a good choice for a dual-purpose bike that spends most of the time on the road? (Downsides might be possible damage from gravel & difficultly in mounting heavy loads).
Any thoughts, or recommendations for bikes that fit this category?
Thanks!
From my limited knowledge, I would consider the following:
1) comfortable geometry - longish wheelbase, tall head-tube, medium-low bottom bracket, long-ish trail.
2) Ability to happily run tires from 28-40mm width
3) Hydrualic disk brakes
4) Braze-ons for fenders and racks
5) Flexible gearing (50-34/11-32, 1x11 10-42)
6) Moderatly light weight (say <9kg naked).
Is Carbon fiber a good choice for a dual-purpose bike that spends most of the time on the road? (Downsides might be possible damage from gravel & difficultly in mounting heavy loads).
Any thoughts, or recommendations for bikes that fit this category?
Thanks!
04-25-17, 05:59 PM
#2
Senior Member
As for the one do to everything.. A lot of bikes can do that to some extent. One thing I went through, a lot of what someone else buys a bike for was not what I wanted a bike for. Depends on what you want and you do on it and how much you want to spend. There are so many things people do a little of and a lot of on a bike that the best options for you might not be what they are for someone or anyone else for that matter. I rode a 35# 26 inch hybrid/comfort/hardtail (or whatever you wanted to call it) that was built like a tank and I did everything on it for years, just swapped between two different wheel/tire sets depending on the conditions that day. I still have it but recently bought a "gravel bike" with 700 40c tires (small compare to what I am used to) similar to what you describe except it comes in at 24#, not the 20ish you are looking for. I still do roughly the same things on that bike but I get done a little faster.
Last edited by u235; 04-25-17 at 06:19 PM.
04-25-17, 10:05 PM
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I would go steel but have never ridden a carbon bike... Jamis Renegade series should tick all those boxes, or a Niner RLT (steel or carbon), or a Vassago Fisticuff (my current do it all bike), or an All-City Nature Boy 853...the list goes on and on. Really depends on your budget and whether you want to buy complete or build it yourself and deal hunt to get the weight down.
Edited to add: Check out Rodriguez frames if you want light and NICE steel...pricey though
Edited to add: Check out Rodriguez frames if you want light and NICE steel...pricey though
Last edited by john_mct; 04-25-17 at 10:21 PM.
04-26-17, 06:06 AM
#4
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+1 for steel, it'll be mora durable off-road.
Look at the Soma Fog Cutter, it's designed with endurance geometry but able to fit wider tyres.
Look at the Soma Fog Cutter, it's designed with endurance geometry but able to fit wider tyres.
04-26-17, 06:15 AM
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Quiver-killers are about impossible to do, IMHO. What makes an offroad bike a good tool offroad, is at odds with what makes on on-road bike good.
You'll be happier having a dedicated road fun-fast ride and a dedicated wider-tire gravel/commuter...rather than trying to have one bike that does both....besides you'd need to have a quiver of spare wheels, changing tires based on where you want to ride today gets old real fast.
You'll be happier having a dedicated road fun-fast ride and a dedicated wider-tire gravel/commuter...rather than trying to have one bike that does both....besides you'd need to have a quiver of spare wheels, changing tires based on where you want to ride today gets old real fast.
04-26-17, 07:07 AM
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Also budget is the main issue. The 3T Explore with one fast road wheelset, one 650B gravel/adventure wheelset, and one durable 700c touring wheelset would probably come as close as possible. Then again the cockpit setup would have to be the same across all three disciplines which could be done but would probably have some compromises.
04-26-17, 08:27 AM
#7
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The Niner RLT 9 RDO ticks all the OP's boxes. I'm sure there are others.
This is going to be the tough part. My Niner RDO is 19.8 lb built including cages, pedals and GPS mount and it is expensive. To get into this range you are going to have to spend money for carbon or custom ti/steel. Would alloy be lighter? I don't know. I'm open to hearing alternatives.
Regarding carbon, one reason why I went with the Niner is that it is built using a mountain bike carbon layup and tested to MTB specs so it should be as durable as any carbon mountain bike out there.
Someone mentioned the 3T Exploro. This is a gorgeous machine. I think it lacks rack mounts though.
I love the Jamis Renegade Elite. This has an amazing parts mix. I'd likely be riding one if it came with Di2.
-Tim-
This is going to be the tough part. My Niner RDO is 19.8 lb built including cages, pedals and GPS mount and it is expensive. To get into this range you are going to have to spend money for carbon or custom ti/steel. Would alloy be lighter? I don't know. I'm open to hearing alternatives.
Regarding carbon, one reason why I went with the Niner is that it is built using a mountain bike carbon layup and tested to MTB specs so it should be as durable as any carbon mountain bike out there.
Someone mentioned the 3T Exploro. This is a gorgeous machine. I think it lacks rack mounts though.
I love the Jamis Renegade Elite. This has an amazing parts mix. I'd likely be riding one if it came with Di2.
-Tim-
04-26-17, 10:49 AM
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Does anyone posting in this thread actually run three wheelsets with three different types tires and tubes?
Just reading that is ridiculous.
Is the user also expected to change cassettes and chains? Chainrings? Why not pedals and shoes? Can he really be expected to ride in road rides with SPD shoes and pedals? And don't even pretend SPD-SL is going to be ok for gravel.
I think it's fun to spitball ideas but lets try to keep it grounded in reality here. Having a bike that can keep up with group rides as well as perform gravel and commuting duties does not require multiple wheels, tires, cassettes or anything else.
Just reading that is ridiculous.
Is the user also expected to change cassettes and chains? Chainrings? Why not pedals and shoes? Can he really be expected to ride in road rides with SPD shoes and pedals? And don't even pretend SPD-SL is going to be ok for gravel.
I think it's fun to spitball ideas but lets try to keep it grounded in reality here. Having a bike that can keep up with group rides as well as perform gravel and commuting duties does not require multiple wheels, tires, cassettes or anything else.
"Let's keep this grounded in reality". That is reality. You want a quiver killer, you'll want different tires. Different tires mean different wheels, due to annoyance and practicality...also odds are you'd want lower gearing on the larger tire wheelset as well, because larger tires increase gear-inches.
The handling compromise required in frame design might be workable....but it depends on your definition of "fast group ride". The fast "group rides" I do are rather prohibitive towards slack endurance geometry and upright riding.
04-26-17, 12:24 PM
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What has been your experience riding a fat-tired smooth tread bike on gravel, fast group rides, and commuting duties? It's not clear if you've ever done it or if you're just sharing your opinion of how you think it must be.
How do you set-up your multiple wheelsets? Do you just shim all your brake rotors or do you just loosen the calipers and re-center each time you change your wheels? Do you change cassettes and chains? How do you track for those items or do you just measure and replace hoping that one cog isn't more worn than the rest? How much tire and tube stock do you keep or just replace when something gets damaged or worn out? Do you have a seat-bag with flat repair items for each tire size or just shift the items around as needed? Are you running tubeless? How are you limited in your fast group rides by endurance geometry (what is that?) and upright riding position? Are you routinely riding in training crits? Can you ride in the drops for long periods? What's been your experience riding in wet gravel or mud with smooth tread tires and how does it compare to knobbies? Same question but in dry conditions?
I dunno man the more I think about what you've posted, the more it seems like you don't really ride much at all? If you want to share your opinion that's fine, just maybe don't try to advocate from a position of authority on things you aren't doing and don't appear to have much experience at.
I'm not advocating a "quiver-killer" I'm saying that one bike, one gearing, one wheelset and one set of tires can do fast group rides, gravel and commuting just fine. It can handle singletrack but not at near the same speed as a mountain bike.
My experience disagrees with everything you said; key word is experience, not opinion. This is how I've been riding for a couple of years.
When I went from a 700x23 race bike to a 650bx42 gravel bike I was riding with the same racers I was riding with before and with the exception of losing some sprints I maybe could have won with bigger gearing and smaller tires, I've had no issues keeping up. I got ribbed for the fenders and when I show up with a rack but by and large it's the same as riding a race bike. Well except I can corner better, take swooping downhills faster and don't panic when an unseen pothole or steel grate shows up. Oh I can also take a sweet 6 mile rocky, rooty with lots of elevation singletrack shortcut at a very fun speed, to get to the ride.
How do you set-up your multiple wheelsets? Do you just shim all your brake rotors or do you just loosen the calipers and re-center each time you change your wheels? Do you change cassettes and chains? How do you track for those items or do you just measure and replace hoping that one cog isn't more worn than the rest? How much tire and tube stock do you keep or just replace when something gets damaged or worn out? Do you have a seat-bag with flat repair items for each tire size or just shift the items around as needed? Are you running tubeless? How are you limited in your fast group rides by endurance geometry (what is that?) and upright riding position? Are you routinely riding in training crits? Can you ride in the drops for long periods? What's been your experience riding in wet gravel or mud with smooth tread tires and how does it compare to knobbies? Same question but in dry conditions?
I dunno man the more I think about what you've posted, the more it seems like you don't really ride much at all? If you want to share your opinion that's fine, just maybe don't try to advocate from a position of authority on things you aren't doing and don't appear to have much experience at.
I'm not advocating a "quiver-killer" I'm saying that one bike, one gearing, one wheelset and one set of tires can do fast group rides, gravel and commuting just fine. It can handle singletrack but not at near the same speed as a mountain bike.
My experience disagrees with everything you said; key word is experience, not opinion. This is how I've been riding for a couple of years.
When I went from a 700x23 race bike to a 650bx42 gravel bike I was riding with the same racers I was riding with before and with the exception of losing some sprints I maybe could have won with bigger gearing and smaller tires, I've had no issues keeping up. I got ribbed for the fenders and when I show up with a rack but by and large it's the same as riding a race bike. Well except I can corner better, take swooping downhills faster and don't panic when an unseen pothole or steel grate shows up. Oh I can also take a sweet 6 mile rocky, rooty with lots of elevation singletrack shortcut at a very fun speed, to get to the ride.
I could go right down the line and answer....But not worth the time or effort. I'm glad you enjoy listening to yourself talk.
Happy Wednesday.
Last edited by Marcus_Ti; 04-26-17 at 12:30 PM.
04-26-17, 01:00 PM
#11
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Man, I'd really like to see this. I've never seen anyone try it but I just don't think anyone but the strongest of the strongest could keep up around here with 42s. I'm on the upper end of capable riders and even I don't find it easy to keep up with a 15lbs, 60mm carbon-wheeled rocket.
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04-26-17, 01:13 PM
#12
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I have a Soma Wolverine that clicks most of the boxes. I can ride with the B group on group rides. With my carbon race bike I was B group too. I have 3 wheels sets, 2 700c and 1 26". I really like the low BB 26" with 2" supple tires. It is my favorite bike of the 9 I own and ride it most. I really like the ability to ride almost any road, trail or 2 track. I have 29x2 Thunder burts and Continental speed ride tires on the 700c wheels. Swapping over is pretty quick, but do have to tweak the brake adjustment a little usually.
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI
Tom Palmer
Twin Lake, MI
04-26-17, 01:46 PM
#13
Junior Member
]Does anyone posting in this thread actually run three wheelsets with three different types tires and tubes?
Just reading that is ridiculous.
Is the user also expected to change cassettes and chains? Chainrings? Why not pedals and shoes? Can he really be expected to ride in road rides with SPD shoes and pedals? And don't even pretend SPD-SL is going to be ok for gravel.
I think it's fun to spitball ideas but lets try to keep it grounded in reality here. Having a bike that can keep up with group rides as well as perform gravel and commuting duties does not require multiple wheels, tires, cassettes or anything else.[/QUOTE]
Actually I do have 3 wheelsets with different cassettes designed for the riding needed. Sorry if it is ridiculous, it really works for me. I use a triple crankset (48/36/24) with bar end shifters and do not worry about chain wear with the different cassettes because I keep the chain lubed. I keep the cogs as close together as possible, the road wheels have a max 23 tooth large, the dirt road a 25, and the singletrack a 32. I also use platform pedals and normal shoes. Some of the new group ride people will "educate" me about clipless pedals and I tell them I have ridden them since the 90's and like to be comfortable. They stop educating me after a couple of rides when I stay with the group and do some pulls. Spitballing ideas is enjoyable for some of us and just because it is against the cookie cutter conventional wisdom doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. I tinker with my bike setups a lot just the see how I like it. I have ridden upright bars on a 650b converted Bridgestone RB-2 and got a bunch of complements for riding that old, slow steel bike. It was just as fast for me overall as my carbon race bike, a little slower up hills and faster down because of the fatter tires.
Tom Palmer,
Twin Lake, MI
Just reading that is ridiculous.
Is the user also expected to change cassettes and chains? Chainrings? Why not pedals and shoes? Can he really be expected to ride in road rides with SPD shoes and pedals? And don't even pretend SPD-SL is going to be ok for gravel.
I think it's fun to spitball ideas but lets try to keep it grounded in reality here. Having a bike that can keep up with group rides as well as perform gravel and commuting duties does not require multiple wheels, tires, cassettes or anything else.[/QUOTE]
Actually I do have 3 wheelsets with different cassettes designed for the riding needed. Sorry if it is ridiculous, it really works for me. I use a triple crankset (48/36/24) with bar end shifters and do not worry about chain wear with the different cassettes because I keep the chain lubed. I keep the cogs as close together as possible, the road wheels have a max 23 tooth large, the dirt road a 25, and the singletrack a 32. I also use platform pedals and normal shoes. Some of the new group ride people will "educate" me about clipless pedals and I tell them I have ridden them since the 90's and like to be comfortable. They stop educating me after a couple of rides when I stay with the group and do some pulls. Spitballing ideas is enjoyable for some of us and just because it is against the cookie cutter conventional wisdom doesn't mean we shouldn't do it. I tinker with my bike setups a lot just the see how I like it. I have ridden upright bars on a 650b converted Bridgestone RB-2 and got a bunch of complements for riding that old, slow steel bike. It was just as fast for me overall as my carbon race bike, a little slower up hills and faster down because of the fatter tires.
Tom Palmer,
Twin Lake, MI
04-26-17, 10:08 PM
#14
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Does anyone posting in this thread actually run three wheelsets with three different types tires and tubes?
Just reading that is ridiculous.
Is the user also expected to change cassettes and chains? Chainrings? Why not pedals and shoes? Can he really be expected to ride in road rides with SPD shoes and pedals? And don't even pretend SPD-SL is going to be ok for gravel.
I think it's fun to spitball ideas but lets try to keep it grounded in reality here. Having a bike that can keep up with group rides as well as perform gravel and commuting duties does not require multiple wheels, tires, cassettes or anything else.
Just reading that is ridiculous.
Is the user also expected to change cassettes and chains? Chainrings? Why not pedals and shoes? Can he really be expected to ride in road rides with SPD shoes and pedals? And don't even pretend SPD-SL is going to be ok for gravel.
I think it's fun to spitball ideas but lets try to keep it grounded in reality here. Having a bike that can keep up with group rides as well as perform gravel and commuting duties does not require multiple wheels, tires, cassettes or anything else.
04-27-17, 05:07 AM
#15
Senior Member
Never the less, the Jamis Renegade Elite checks off every box the OP mentioned. I actually weighed one the other day and it comes in at exactly 19.1 lbs. You toss on some pedals and and cages, it will still be less than 20 lbs. I'm looking at one myself and just trying to justify the purchase, not the price. I already own a 2015 Diverge Comp Carbon. My question is, should I pull the trigger based on what it is compared to what I have. Didn't mean to hijack the thread.
04-27-17, 06:28 AM
#16
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Having changed tires a couple of times, I'm already bored with it, and can see the value in spending a few hundred $ in getting additional wheels with the right tires for the job. Ideally one would have multiple bikes with different wheels, but this is a much more expensive and space-consuming option.
04-27-17, 12:22 PM
#17
Senior Member
I bought a Specialized AWOL Comp '16 for this exact purpose. It does gravel, single track, road, touring/bikepacking, shopping and commuting just handily. I do all these things regularly on that bike and seriously, I could not ask for a more capable do it all rider. Stock build minus saddle ticks all the boxes for me with the addition of a tubus tara front rack.
*Wide tubeless ready tires stock - 700c 1.9 inch, goes to 2.1 inch
*Reynolds steel
*Dirt road touring geometry - long wheelbase, long sloped toptube, low bb, short stem, flared drops
*1x11 sram rival
*hydro Disc brakes
*all the braze-ons one could need for racks & fenders and 3 sets of bottle cage bosses.
*not a boat anchor
*it's black
It's very rare when a stock build from one of the big 3 hits that niche at a decent price-point. The only thing I wouldn't take the Awol on is fast group road rides - that's the one case for me where a carbon weight weenie road bike shines... as it should!
*Wide tubeless ready tires stock - 700c 1.9 inch, goes to 2.1 inch
*Reynolds steel
*Dirt road touring geometry - long wheelbase, long sloped toptube, low bb, short stem, flared drops
*1x11 sram rival
*hydro Disc brakes
*all the braze-ons one could need for racks & fenders and 3 sets of bottle cage bosses.
*not a boat anchor
*it's black
It's very rare when a stock build from one of the big 3 hits that niche at a decent price-point. The only thing I wouldn't take the Awol on is fast group road rides - that's the one case for me where a carbon weight weenie road bike shines... as it should!
04-27-17, 12:52 PM
#18
Full Member
Another steel frame vote here
Just my .02
https://viventebikes.com/ (My bike so I'm bias)
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Just my .02
https://viventebikes.com/ (My bike so I'm bias)
Long Haul Trucker | Bikes | Surly Bikes (or disc trucker)
04-27-17, 08:09 PM
#19
Senior Member
You want to spend 20 minutes+ per day putting on different tires for a different ride. By all means. It. Will. Get. Old. Fast. Which is necessary because: tires that will let you "keep up on fast group rides", and tires that do off paved-road well (beyond anything but hard-pack dry-as-bone dirt) are mutually exclusive things.
"Let's keep this grounded in reality". That is reality. You want a quiver killer, you'll want different tires. Different tires mean different wheels, due to annoyance and practicality...also odds are you'd want lower gearing on the larger tire wheelset as well, because larger tires increase gear-inches.
The handling compromise required in frame design might be workable....but it depends on your definition of "fast group ride". The fast "group rides" I do are rather prohibitive towards slack endurance geometry and upright riding.
"Let's keep this grounded in reality". That is reality. You want a quiver killer, you'll want different tires. Different tires mean different wheels, due to annoyance and practicality...also odds are you'd want lower gearing on the larger tire wheelset as well, because larger tires increase gear-inches.
The handling compromise required in frame design might be workable....but it depends on your definition of "fast group ride". The fast "group rides" I do are rather prohibitive towards slack endurance geometry and upright riding.
04-28-17, 04:24 AM
#20
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As to wheel switching...I do it.
I run fulcrum Racing 7 wheels (with a dedicated cassette) with 25mm road tires for general and group pace line rides.
For gravel and cyclocross practice, I run 30mm Kenda Kwick cross tires in my stock Alex Rims.
My bike (2015 Jamis Quest Comp) has rim brakes, and both wheels are within about a mm in width, so there is no brake adjusting. In addition, the cassettes are close enough that the RD shifts fine with zero adjustment...and shifts great with just a slight turn.
2 Wheelsets...easy 2 minute wheel change. 2 tire types that each work well on their intended surface.
I run fulcrum Racing 7 wheels (with a dedicated cassette) with 25mm road tires for general and group pace line rides.
For gravel and cyclocross practice, I run 30mm Kenda Kwick cross tires in my stock Alex Rims.
My bike (2015 Jamis Quest Comp) has rim brakes, and both wheels are within about a mm in width, so there is no brake adjusting. In addition, the cassettes are close enough that the RD shifts fine with zero adjustment...and shifts great with just a slight turn.
2 Wheelsets...easy 2 minute wheel change. 2 tire types that each work well on their intended surface.
04-28-17, 04:27 AM
#21
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FYI, I got my extra wheels, plus a 9-speed ultegra cassette for about $200. I've been very happy with them.
04-28-17, 05:01 AM
#22
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Does anyone posting in this thread actually run three wheelsets with three different types tires and tubes?
Just reading that is ridiculous.
Is the user also expected to change cassettes and chains? Chainrings? Why not pedals and shoes? Can he really be expected to ride in road rides with SPD shoes and pedals? And don't even pretend SPD-SL is going to be ok for gravel.
I think it's fun to spitball ideas but lets try to keep it grounded in reality here. Having a bike that can keep up with group rides as well as perform gravel and commuting duties does not require multiple wheels, tires, cassettes or anything else.
Just reading that is ridiculous.
Is the user also expected to change cassettes and chains? Chainrings? Why not pedals and shoes? Can he really be expected to ride in road rides with SPD shoes and pedals? And don't even pretend SPD-SL is going to be ok for gravel.
I think it's fun to spitball ideas but lets try to keep it grounded in reality here. Having a bike that can keep up with group rides as well as perform gravel and commuting duties does not require multiple wheels, tires, cassettes or anything else.
I just finished changing from "Standard" to "Compact" for an upcoming ride. What a pain. Crank change, new chain, adjusting front derailleur, etc. But it did give me a good excuse to do a long procrastinated cleaning and tuneup for the bike too. I'll probably change back when it is time too change out the next chain.
Disc brakes would make converting between say 700c and 650b much easier, as long as the discs and cassettes are aligned the same (same hubs?).
Many road riders have "race wheels". How different is that?
I'm not sure I'd really want to do the changes, but it might not be bad if one carefully considered each change. So, the OP wanted to run both road compact PLUS 1x11 gearing. Why? Choose one, at least for the front. One can still run different cassettes in the rear as long as the derailleur has adequate range for the biggest one. Although, shifting is better with the derailleur close to the cassette.
Pretty much everything else is within the realm of possibilities. Start with a good quality 650b gravel bike, and add a set of 700c road tires.
05-11-17, 03:16 PM
#23
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endurance-style road bike, sturdy commuter, and capable gravel/adventure bike
I have two wheelsets, one with gnarly tubeless 700x40c's for offroad stuff and the other with conventional slicks for long-distance road riding. I use both for commuting depending on the route. Change them all the time, only takes a minute. One set gets studded tires on it in winter.
50-34 and 11-32 on both wheels.
Mechanical discs. But hydro would be fine too. Thru-axle. But QR would be OK as well.
Mounts for fenders, rack (not used yet but will do a tour at some point) and third water bottle.
Mine comes in at over 12kg with sturdy wheels and dyno-hub, so it's not ideal for real climby road rides, but no problem keeping up on long, reasonably fast group rides.
I do singletrack on it and often hit the mtb park on the way home from work. I'll never rip it up downhill but it's still a load of fun and my handling skills have blossomed. Has totally changed the way I ride and enhanced my whole riding experience. I'd want a metal frame rather than carbon for endurance and/or gravel riding. Just seems more durable. But just my opinion. I do have a carbon road bike as well which I bring out now and then, but not often.
Not sure what models would fit the bill but I'm sure it won't be hard to find one.
EDIT: re: pedals. I switch between SPD and SPD-SL. But really, you can do any kind of riding with either. I just prefer SPD for unpaved stuff if it's snowy or muddy in case I have to put a foot down. My SPD pedals also have a platform so if the cleats get completely clogged I can still pedal.
Last edited by yarb; 05-11-17 at 03:23 PM.
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