Filling a small dent in the top tube.
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Saratoga calif.
Posts: 1,049
Bikes: Miyata 610(66cm), GT Vantara Hybrid (64cm), Nishiki International (64cm), Peugeot rat rod (62 cm), Trek 800 Burning Man helicopter bike, Bob Jackson frame (to be restored?) plus a never ending stream of neglected waifs from the Bike exchange.
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 339 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 632 Times
in
229 Posts
Filling a small dent in the top tube.
I am preparing to paint an old French bike frame and it is in great condition except for a small dent in the top tube. The dent is about 1/4" deep and 1/4" round . It looks like someone shot a ball bearing at it. I want to fill the dent before I paint the bike. All I have is this one small dent. As a possible alternative to bondo I thought maybe I could fill it with solder and file it smooth. I have already sand blasted the frame so it is perfectly clean.
Is this a good idea. I remember people used to fill seams with lead back in the 50's hot rod days. If I used electrical solder would that work or do I need to use plain solder and flux.
Is there a best way to go about this. I don't want the bondo or solder poping off at some later date.
Any suggestions appreciated.
Is this a good idea. I remember people used to fill seams with lead back in the 50's hot rod days. If I used electrical solder would that work or do I need to use plain solder and flux.
Is there a best way to go about this. I don't want the bondo or solder poping off at some later date.
Any suggestions appreciated.
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sherwood, OR
Posts: 1,279
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 336 Post(s)
Liked 309 Times
in
180 Posts
Solder is a good idea, but brazing rod would be better, and I would say you definitely need flux either way. I am sure that a frame builder could do it in five minutes if you throw them a 20, and would probably give you a short strip of sandpaper to help smooth the surface.
#3
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,513
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2747 Post(s)
Liked 3,394 Times
in
2,056 Posts
If you plan on powder coat, you must braze fill and file/sand smooth
#4
Senior Member
Unless the frame is being powder coated, bondo is the way to go. Brazing would take some very careful filing and sanding, to not show.
#5
Half way there
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,957
Bikes: Many, and the list changes frequently
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 986 Post(s)
Liked 880 Times
in
527 Posts
Solder is a good idea, but brazing rod would be better, and I would say you definitely need flux either way. I am sure that a frame builder could do it in five minutes if you throw them a 20, and would probably give you a short strip of sandpaper to help smooth the surface.
Neither lead or bondo will pop off if you apply correctly.
Good luck.
#6
Generally bewildered
Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Eastern PA, USA
Posts: 3,037
Bikes: 2014 Trek Domane 6.9, 1999 LeMond Zurich, 1978 Schwinn Superior
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1152 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times
in
251 Posts
As a bit of possibly useless information, soldering and brazing are essentially the same, except for the technical differentiation: In brazing the metal that you bond the surfaces with melts at greater than 450°C, and for soldering, less than 450°C. A lot of structural (like for radiator repair) solders melt in the 260-425° C range. Powercoating cure temps are in the 300-425°C range.
Seems to me that it breaks down: if you powdercoat, fill with braze. Else, use Bondo or solder. Given that this is expressly what Bondo is for, and its easier to apply than solder, that's what I'd use for painting.
Seems to me that it breaks down: if you powdercoat, fill with braze. Else, use Bondo or solder. Given that this is expressly what Bondo is for, and its easier to apply than solder, that's what I'd use for painting.
#7
Full Member
not sure how feasible it is in your situation but
Likes For carlosponti:
#8
Mother Nature's Son
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Sussex County, Delaware
Posts: 3,118
Bikes: 2014 Orbea Avant MD30, 2004 Airborne Zeppelin TI, 2003 Lemond Poprad, 2001 Lemond Tourmalet, 2014? Soma Smoothie
Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 853 Post(s)
Liked 1,436 Times
in
818 Posts
I have a steel frame that had a dent in the front of the head tube, about a nickle size and maybe 1/4 inch deep. When I rebuilt the bike I took it down to bare metal and sanded it out to 1800 grit sandpaper. I had the frame powder coated and the powder alone nearly filled in the dent. At a close inspection, the dent can still be seen as a minor imperfection. At a further distance, unless you look really hard, it does not show.The powder coating is very durable and the color options are more than 6,000. Single stage is around $100. I had a 2 stage, special order powder used and it was $180.
Likes For delbiker1:
#9
Senior Member
There are a few problems with solder. Unless you are experienced with it, it's hard to build it up into a nice smooth lump over the dent you want to cover -- it wants to spread out and coat the heated metal. That's why it's so nice for joining pipes -- it gets pulled into cracks. So I could see a frustrating experience as the solder doesn't take the shape you want it to. It could be cooling into all sorts of nasty lumps and pits, then fall off the frame and through the hole in your Croc when you heat it up too much.
Second, as others mentioned, anything you can melt with a Home Depot propane torch is not going to stand up to powder coating. I think that most powercoat ovens go to about 390 F or 200 C to cure for about 10-15 minutes. As others mentioned, that will be too hot.
Silver brazing is usually done with an oxyacetylene torch. If you find someone with one of those who will fill the dent for $20, also buy a lottery ticket. I always hear these legends of people with expensive tools and mechanical expertise willing to take on small jobs for a few bucks, but where they are, I don't know.
There are high temp epoxies that would probably fare fine in a powdercoat oven -- but I'd check with your powdercoater first.
If you're not powder coating, then I'd go with an epoxy. It doesn't absorb water and is stronger than Bondo. You could get the stuff you can kneed and apply like clay, then sand smooth.
Second, as others mentioned, anything you can melt with a Home Depot propane torch is not going to stand up to powder coating. I think that most powercoat ovens go to about 390 F or 200 C to cure for about 10-15 minutes. As others mentioned, that will be too hot.
Silver brazing is usually done with an oxyacetylene torch. If you find someone with one of those who will fill the dent for $20, also buy a lottery ticket. I always hear these legends of people with expensive tools and mechanical expertise willing to take on small jobs for a few bucks, but where they are, I don't know.
There are high temp epoxies that would probably fare fine in a powdercoat oven -- but I'd check with your powdercoater first.
If you're not powder coating, then I'd go with an epoxy. It doesn't absorb water and is stronger than Bondo. You could get the stuff you can kneed and apply like clay, then sand smooth.
#10
Senior Member
Join Date: May 2019
Location: Bloomington, IN
Posts: 2,949
Bikes: Paramount, Faggin, Ochsner, Ciocc, Basso
Mentioned: 117 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1303 Post(s)
Liked 1,911 Times
in
1,141 Posts
There are a few problems with epoxy and those are about the cure temps and the breakdown temps. 350* is the best number you can find, and that won;t work for powder coating. Everything you want to do should be done with a frame builder on site for you. Some paints will accept bondo and others won't, find painter who knows his bizniz and trust him/her. It shouldn't be a problem. Smiles, MH
#12
Senior Member
#13
Senior Member
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Jose (Willow Glen) Ca
Posts: 9,845
Bikes: Kirk Custom JK Special, '84 Team Miyata,(dura ace old school) 80?? SR Semi-Pro 600 Arabesque
Mentioned: 106 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2338 Post(s)
Liked 2,822 Times
in
1,541 Posts
Home depot mapp torches will melt bronze. I have used them to remove cable braze ons
another option is for @capnjonny to call or go to https://www.silvacycles.com/ and see what it would cost for them to fill....then he could do the filing sanding
bunch of local references there Silvas is in Campbell CA and i know the Capn lives close
another option is for @capnjonny to call or go to https://www.silvacycles.com/ and see what it would cost for them to fill....then he could do the filing sanding
bunch of local references there Silvas is in Campbell CA and i know the Capn lives close
__________________
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
#15
SE Wis
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Milwaukee, WI
Posts: 10,513
Bikes: '68 Raleigh Sprite, '02 Raleigh C500, '84 Raleigh Gran Prix, '91 Trek 400, 2013 Novara Randonee, 1990 Trek 970
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2747 Post(s)
Liked 3,394 Times
in
2,056 Posts
There is also UV cured powder coating that doesn't require heat curing but I believe needs the static part.
Both methods require more $$$$
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2014
Location: City of Angels
Posts: 4,870
Bikes: A few too many
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1364 Post(s)
Liked 2,181 Times
in
1,183 Posts
I've used both brazing rod and lead. Brazing rod is harder and more durable but takes a bit more work to finish. Lead solder does work great for small areas, but @dedhed is on the money about powder coating. The curing temps could be above the melting point of the solder, depending on what you use. Plumbing solder is typically 50/50 lead/tin with a low melting point. Auto body lead is something like 70/30 with a higher melting temp. That may be ok for powder coating, but no guarantees. Don't use electrical solder.
Neither lead or bondo will pop off if you apply correctly.
Good luck.
Neither lead or bondo will pop off if you apply correctly.
Good luck.
I believe that "Rolling Blocks" will still leave a small indentation because the impression either needs to be "pulled" out or "pushed" out from the back....I have never seen a dent that was rolled out that did not leave some small impression after rolling...the video still shows a dent after "rolling"so as other have said unless powder coating bond is the way to go.
The dent is small I vote for Bondo less work no heat and no filing etc.
JMO, Ben
Best, Ben
__________________
"EVERY PERSON IS GUILTY OF ALL THE GOOD THEY DID NOT DO"
Voltaire
Voice recognition may sometimes create odd spelling and grammatical errors
"EVERY PERSON IS GUILTY OF ALL THE GOOD THEY DID NOT DO"
Voltaire
Voice recognition may sometimes create odd spelling and grammatical errors
Last edited by xiaoman1; 09-14-19 at 03:02 PM.
#17
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 2,067
Bikes: 84 Pinarello Trevisio, 86 Guerciotti SLX, 96 Specialized Stumpjumper, 2010 Surly Cross Check, 88 Centurion Prestige, 73 Raleigh Sports, GT Force, Bridgestone MB4
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 278 Post(s)
Liked 71 Times
in
56 Posts
I would just use a mild abrasive plastic/clear coat polish like PlastX. Buff it gently and then work outward into the unaffected area. Follow up with pure Carnuba yellow wax, call it good.
#18
Half way there
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 2,957
Bikes: Many, and the list changes frequently
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 986 Post(s)
Liked 880 Times
in
527 Posts
O.P.
I believe that "Rolling Blocks" will still leave a small indentation because the impression either needs to be "pulled" out or "pushed" out from the back....I have never seen a dent that was rolled out that did not leave some small impression after rolling...the video still shows a dent after "rolling"so as other have said unless powder coating bond is the way to go.
The dent is small I vote for Bondo less work no heat and no filing etc.
JMO, Ben
Best, Ben
I believe that "Rolling Blocks" will still leave a small indentation because the impression either needs to be "pulled" out or "pushed" out from the back....I have never seen a dent that was rolled out that did not leave some small impression after rolling...the video still shows a dent after "rolling"so as other have said unless powder coating bond is the way to go.
The dent is small I vote for Bondo less work no heat and no filing etc.
JMO, Ben
Best, Ben
#20
WGB
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Niagara Region
Posts: 2,917
Bikes: Panasonic PT-4500
Mentioned: 46 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1800 Post(s)
Liked 2,334 Times
in
1,378 Posts
Some people aren't bothered by dents.
Owner thought it was fine....
Saw this either Tuesday or Wednesday in Barcelona.
Owner thought it was fine....
Saw this either Tuesday or Wednesday in Barcelona.