HGR3inOK

Please check your private messages.

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

pctjeff23

Not worth it

Ozonation

I have no experience with Bfold, so I can't say whether or not they're good: I've heard they're very competent, but I also recall a comment from another indicating they were a bit... ah, indifferent, maybe even aloof? This is third party, so I wouldn't put too much stock into it. I think you might be reading a bit too much into the owner's response to you, but as a potential buyer, I would certainly agree that what you ask for (test fold, etc.) is quite reasonable - that is, after all, the point of folding bike!

For what it's worth, let me relay how we got our Bromptons. The nearest dealer to me in Canada is in Toronto, and that shop, didn't have any Bromptons in stock. So, I phoned every single Brompton dealer in Canada. I ended up contacting a shop in Victoria, BC - Fairfield Bicycle - that just happened to have a Brompton model in the configuration and colour I wanted. I must have bugged the poor sales rep with a half-dozen phone calls and follow up emails about appearance, functionality, how it folded, their experiences with it, blah, blah, blah. The Brompton also came in the 6 speed reduced gearing, which the sales rep commented seemed to ride very nicely, even on flats and especially for hills or into a headwind. He convinced me (and I'm glad he did - the reduced gearing is very practical).

Then I found out that they had an older red model that was in very good condition and used as a tester. They could give me a break on the price since it wasn't selling. My wife's favourite colour is red. But... no reduced gearing - just a standard 3 speed ratio. Too bad... but wait! He thought about it, went and asked the owner - who was licenced and trained to service Bromptons - and yes, the owner was willing to upgrade the gearing to the reduced 6 speed gearing like the one I was going to buy for a modest upgrade price! Sold!

So, for me, the shop was very helpful, patient, knowledgeable, and lived up to what they delivered. And so they got my hard earned money for two Bromptons. The shop earned my patronage, and I was happy to give it to them.

Bottom line: If a shop has what you want and you think you can enter a "relationship" with them (for service) and feel comfortable doing so, get the bike. If you have nagging doubts now, think carefully about the tradeoffs and if you can live with them, or else every time you look at your brand new $3000 bike, you'll feel regret and you don't want that.

Folding-Bikes

Thanks for bringing this up with us! Looks like the website is no longer live.


Reach SL has the highest end components on a folding bike to date, and at 8.2kg for a 20" 451 I think the lightest, apples and oranges when compared to other folding bikes.


Like Hank said, if its too good to be true, it probably is, with high quality retailers in the US such as Bfold and FudgeCyclesStore in the UK the risk is never worth it, specially since they offer the experience and high customer service and bike like this deserves. As a rule of thumb, Pacific only sell to shops who carry loads of brands, so people can compare with other bikes and make the right choice for them, we do not tend to sell to online shops!!


Hope this helps,


Juan

(MD for Pacific Europa Limited)

pctjeff23

The experience that Ozonation had with Fairfield bicycle sounds like exceptional customer service. Stuff like that seals the deal and gets you a customer for life. A little patience and willingness to spend the extra time with a customer goes a long way.

Bfold is very knowledgable, no denying that. But "Aloof" and "indifferent" seems to capture my sentiments as well.

Ozonation

I forgot... the rep at Fairfield even took the time to photograph the actual bikes I would be getting and sent them to me so that I could be sure of the colour, style, and configuration. He also asked for my height and recommended the extended seat post and swapped out the standard one to ensure I was ready to roll when I received the bikes. Both bikes were packed into the Brompton soft cases (which I ordered), and boxed very securely. They both arrived within 5 days of payment.

An exceptional experience indeed!

ratdog

Bfold is an good bike shop for what they do.

Looks like the OP is sore because David wouldn't budge on discounting a $2,850 bike when he already knows Bfold is the only shop in the region distributing these bikes. FWIW, his business plan is a smart business plan and that is how he stays in business. BFold specializes in hard find folding bicycles and folding bicycles that are hardly ever discounted. He does this because it's a small shop and the person working sales is often also the same person doing the service orders. They cannot afford to be a shop where people come to test ride then buy elsewhere.

The OP asking the BFold associates to spend more time than already spent with a "new" buyer who has never made any kind of investment with them (such as a prior bicycle purchase or repair service) and who has already tipped their hand that they are considering ordering the bike from overseas of course will be met with skepticism.

And to answer the OP, yes you are being very unreasonable. You fired the first salvo and showed your true colors and then expect the seller to overlook that and treat you as if nothing transpired. IMO, BFold has only treated you as you have treated them. And this only after they spent time with you in good faith before you tried to get a better price by asking them to match a fake seller. So the OP should get over it and either buy it from BFold or find himself another bicycle because it's highly unlikely that he is going to get that bike in the NE region from anywhere else.

BassNotBass

Well 'said' ratdog. I agree 100%.

Ozonation

Well ratdog, I generally agree with what you and many others post, but I don't think the OP's request for more information or unreasonable at all.

I went and bought a Rivendell bike from the Country Bike Shop in Ohio. The proprietor spent 4 hours with me, discussing every nuance of the bike, took me out to ride 3 different bikes and configurations, and outlined all the various advantages and disadvantages. When I left, I hadn't even placed an order nor had I ever had any prior dealings with the shop - and he knew that I still might not place an order given that there were used and online options available to me. I ended up buying the bike because of his superior attitude, treatment, and care he took of me.

Don't get me wrong... if Bfold thinks they've "had enough" of the OP, that's their business and perogative, but in a world of hard earned dollars, I cannot fault the OP for asking for a discount or more information so long he's not be rude or abusive about it. I see it as negotiation. The seller (or the buyer) can always say "no".

brakemeister

hey Its NOO YAWK ..... they do talk different and are sometimes a little rough around the edges ... or so I thought ?
Ratdog is right ...You know how difficult it is to have something more or less exclusive which is located in a market niche about the size of a cheap flat rate shipping carton ....
And than this guy walks in and talks hundreds of dollars off..... actually he is talking about my lifelihood here, the small profit I make to keep the lights burning, to send the kid to college ( or grad school, in my case..lol)

Really ?

Start a bike shop where you cater to the 0.2 percent of peeps who are buying folders.... than sell the real cool bikes where only 0.00002 % of people have even an interest in ....

Ever walked into a Ferrari dealership and even started to talk about money ? lol ( I actually have no clue ..lol )

Get that bike from him, bring a sixpack of some good beer ... and start all over ...

Thor

ratdog

Sounds reasonable if you ignore the fact that I already said that Bfold's business model is not to be everyone's showroom hence why they specialize in hard to get bikes that are never discounted. They were very helpful until the OP started treating them like a showroom.


I am going to guess that this shop is a larger shop with several employees and with lots of different bikes on display. A shop who's margin is better than a small specialty shop like Bfold.



If you can't fault the buyer from trying to keep a few hard earned dollars, you can't fault the seller from trying to earn a few dollars especially since the buyer lives so far away that he will never bring the bike in for service. That is assuming he also tipped his hand on that one.


FTR, I've also been treated in a rushed manner and given non-helpful replys when dealing with Bfold, but I don't gripe about it because I had asked for low margin parts and also didn't buy the bikes the parts were for from BFold. The times I've gotten service from them for repairs I've had no complaints. As a matter of fact, it's instances like that when they have more time to speak with you that their friendliness comes out though do expect to be ignored if there is a sales going on since there is only 1 person in the store most of the time.

Ozonation

Nope. One person - proprietor/owner/seller. Specialty shop - only carries Rivendells, and only has 20 or less bikes on hand. The shop area and repair area are basically one big room. I'm not sure how much money he actually makes from this (and I'm not sure how either).

To be fair, he has another business, but that makes it even weirder: he takes the time to try to make sure each and every one of his bike customers are satisfied, when you think about it, he really doesn't have to. He does it because he wants to and he's passionate about it.

ratdog

It's nice to hear that there are still shops willing to spend time with customers, but owning a shop in NYC where commercial rents can be over $100K for the little hole in the wall that is Bfold's space will put a damper on how many sessions a shop can spend with a customer who has not committed to buying a bike.

Ozonation

Well, I have three main bikes: a Brompton, a Rivendell, and a Salsa Fat Bike. All three were bought a store at least 250 km away from me: I will almost never return to them for service - and they knew it. All three went out of their way to get me a good price with superior service and attitude. All three were smaller, independent bike stores, not big chains stores. And yes, for each one, I tried to negotiate some sort of deal - whether it be a lower cost or some "freebie". Most of the time, I got a great discount on some needed accessory, and I walked away knowing I got the best price I could, particularly since these were relatively expensive bikes. I asked and negotiated respectfully, and was treated great. And I bugged each one endlessly with questions about the bike and yes, took up inordinate amounts of their time and attention - I'm pretty assertive when it's my money.

I bring all three bikes to my LBS. None were purchased from it obviously. Smallish shop: one owner, a couple mechanics, maybe one or two sales staff during the high season. Would they like to sell me a bike? Of course. Would they feel offended if I asked them for advice or serviced after my bikes given that I didn't buy the bikes from them? Maybe. After all, they are always busy.

... but they have never been rude to me. Always polite, always helpful, even showed me stuff about my bikes that they felt I should know. They give me a nice discount; I'm brash enough to ask if they forget, even on low margin items. As a result, I patronize them shamelessly. Most of my colleagues at work go to the same LBS.

There is another LBS locally that has a high profile. Great bikes, fantastic accessories. Most of my colleagues who know more than me don't go there and have not recommended them. Why? Because they don't like their aloof attitude.

============

Look, at the end, I can't fault either the OP or Bfold - you can act and choose to interact with whoever you choose and how you choose, and if a store has a particular way of operating that works, hey more power to it. My point is that so long as you're respectful, I don't see why the OP would not want and ask for a good price and great service - we expect it from others when we go out to a nice restaurant, spend money on a nice set of clothes, etc. Negotiation is at the heart of supply and demand, and if it works, say yes; if it doesn't just say no.

I think I'm done - I talk too much anyways!

CenturionIM

wow, no idea folders are that expensive. For 3k, I can get a very nice full carbon bike + top component grouppo easy.

badmother

But then again- why would you want that when you could get a great folder instead??

pctjeff23

Ratdog,
Hi. I have a name. It's Jeff, not OP. You bring up some good points, but I think you may be misinterpreting my post slightly. I am not sore that he did not discount the price. He can do whatever he wants to do with the price. That's up to him and I understand that. Like I said, I did not know the andi site was a scam when I e-mailed him about it. When I realized it was a scam, I did not blame him for not matching a fake scam price.

I am however questioning the service. I told him I was 99% on buying one of two specific bikes the next time I came in. I just wanted to make sure I knew the bike folded up compactly into a suitcase and how exactly to do this. Obviously, the easy thing to do is just send me a picture of the bike in a travel case. It's more personalized service to teach the fold for a customer when he comes in. And like I said, that is a huge selling point, and I want to make sure I know how to fold the bike compactly.

Also, like I said, I did not test ride the bike when I was there. There was one other customer who came in about 15 minutes after I arrived and began talking to the salesperson. I knew I was taking up a lot of time with my questions, so I let the salesperson help that customer and then proceeded to ask more questions when the store was empty. If the store is not crowded (as in empty) and the salesperson is not busy, what is the issue with trying to obtain as much information as I can about the bike.

The last time I e-mailed B-fold, I thanked him for his help and feedback in proving the fraud website. I did not ask him to meet any other prices or lower the prices. I accept the price. I'm past that. It's the defensive, non-accomodating attitude of "manager". There's work invovled in making a sale. More in some cases than others. I guess he's doing fine, and like you said, he has a successful business model. It just rubbed me the wrong way.

CenturionIM

uh oh, more bikes making overtures to my wallet.

BassNotBass

But I bet it has big wheels and isn't the greatest for traveling and touring. For 3k I'd get a custom made Bike Friday that suits my needs better than some off the shelf carbon bike.

smallwheeler

champignon

Can't speak to your needs. Fitting bikes is not brain surgery, and for $3000 there are lots of people who can fit lots of bikes that will fit any number of people with different shapes. Bike Friday has no monopoly on that skill, no matter how well they may do it or how much they may market that capability.

pctjeff23

I wanted to conclude by giving some love to NYCeWheels after my recent bash session of Bfold. I just bought the Reach Road (Racing) 2009 model.

I went into the store on two separate occassions, and the salesperson at NYCeWheels helped me take apart the bike both times to show me how the fold is done. The first demonstration fold took about 30-45 minutes, and he was willing to do the fold on my return visit becuase I had told him I had forgotten a few steps of the disassembly. Took a nice, lengthy test ride. He exchanged the existing seat post with a longer and lighter aluminum one free of charge. He referred me to a nearby bike shop for accessories I needed (extra tubes, tire, bar bags) rather than trying to sell me on the limited selection of these items that he did have.

Tested the bike yesterday on a 70 mile ride and I'm very happy with it. My previous bike was a heavy Takara Horizon, and I guess I don't know what I'm missing with high-end carbon fiber bikes, but the Reach Road was certainly an upgrade and felt fast and comfortable. As far as the 20'' wheels, I didn't really notice any difference at all besides being ever so slightly twitchier on turns. But that aspect didn't bother me. There was some bobbing up and down of the bike at high speeds down steep hills, but again, not really anything that was bothersome.

The bike passed the first test, as far a great quality ride. Now, the second test is mastering the science of taking it apart and fitting it into a suitcase. That could take a while.

BassNotBass

Something that is often overlooked because it's normally not that apparent at the speeds most people ride their bikes, especially small wheeled bikes, but I bet the wheels could use a little balancing. I usually wind little lengths of solid core solder around the spokes at the nipples to add weight on the light side of a wheel to help balance them. It's a 'trial and error' proposition but once accomplished helps smooth out the ride when going fast.

DVC45

Sure, but it won't fold.

pctjeff23

Bass, I would hope that a brand new bike has balanced wheels, but not necessarily? So wrap solder wire around the enlarged nipple part of the spokes on both wheels, test the ride down a steep hill, and this should balance out the wheels? I've read other reviews on the Reach Road that bobbing at high speeds is common, so I just kind of expected and accepted that facet, but that would be a nice surprise to have it corrected.

Exactly. I guess it all depends on how and where you are going to use your bike, though. I know I'm sacrificing a little speed and ride quality with a folder. A little. But I love to travel and I'd love to be able to take a good, quality ride with me on vacations, rather than spending a few hundred on rental each time. Plus, with a folder, it's nice to do point to point trips rather than loops or out and backs.