tomato coupe

Because traffic laws allow them to drive at the speed limit?

Leisesturm

Part of the problem in this discussion is that we are simultaneously observing the mechanics and dynamics of Interstate and Freeway operation conflated with urban and suburban operation. The two are very distinct. Almost mutually exclusive. The DOT has nationwide jurisdiction on the Interstate Highway System. Interstates are mandated to have curve radiuses and/or banking that allows an 85th percentile driver to feel in control at 80 mph. There are very, very few State entities that sanction operation at those speeds, even though the roads they maintain can support it.

The discrepancy leads to what speeding occurs and not a small amount of the road rage that results from letter of the law types juxtaposed with doing what comes naturally types. Strict adherence to 65 or 70mph on a road that is begging a driver to open up a bit ... well you see the results of that every evening on your local news channels. Driving through town you can be on a 15mph residential cul-de-sac one minute, A 25mph business district main street or a 20mph school zone (wut) or a 45 mph two lane blacktop in the next minute. Automated sytems can keep up with that but a human driver is cued by externals that inform how fast it is safe to operate!

Let's really get a grip and observe that even though the road you are on has a 35mph speed limit, the presence of road work crews, and accident, slower traffic ... any or all of these will have an effect on the speed that you can actually drive that stretch right now. My phone always knows what the speed limit is of streets that I am on. It is NOT reading the traffic signs. It is working off map data stored in a database and this information does go out of date. It's going to take a quantum leap forward in artificial intelligence before any automated driving system can govern the dynamics of the constantly changing environment a car (or bicycle) operates in. Honestly, I don't see it happening in our lifetimes.

Tesla's and Waymo's efforts notwithstanding, they aren't winning the race to actually put a self-driving car on the road that can pass the Turing Test. Not even close. Chat GPT is about what we've got and when Chat GPT 'hallucinates' the results are humorous. When a Model 3 hallucinates, the results can be dire. I'm a musician. A Classical Musician. The distinction is important. Classical musicians work from ... classics. Your success is built on how exactly you interpret the OG. Every now and then someone comes along that has the nervous system of a Hamster on Methamphetamine and can flat out destroy any existing speed record for the Chopin Etude in Ab, and instead of praise they are going to get serious hate from the cadre of concert pianists of 'standard' ability who just can't hang it over the edge like that.

Everyone in this thread that wants cars governed to the 'speed limit' is acting on those kinds of not wanting to see others go faster than they are able to, petty jealousy. IMO its not how fast you are going but how fast can you stop. When Diane Bish tears through the Bach Sinfonia to Cantata #29, I'm cheering her on. If it was full of slips and mistakes that would be one thing. But if its clean and perfectly executed, well good on her. Its the carelessness that kills, not the speed. Look at the length of this thread. Who knew there was so much to say on the issue of speed. Speed and speed limits are arbitrary. One city's 20mph is another city's 30mph.

In the part of Northwest Oregon, where I live, most of I5 has 55mph posted. At 60mph (56?) you are speeding. At 65 you are seriously hanging it out!! I took my wife, MIL and a friend up to Mt. St. Helen's up in Washington and we just couldn't understand why everyone was driving so fast! Oh ... 70mph speed limit, 75mph prevailing speed of traffic. That'll do it. When the governors come in, what speed would you want them set to? It's a serious question. I'd love to hear what speed should ALL of us drive on: Interstates, State Routes, Two Lane Blacktop, Business Arterials, Expressways ... etc. Let's see where we all come down on this. Should be interesting.

RubeRad

Separated at birth! You guys should form a club

RubeRad

I don't?
I don't?
How is "everybody should feel the way I do about X" different than "I think X is correct"?

Correcter than though at least, holier would depend on if there's a moral component. I'm pretty sure I've got less 'holier than thou' going on than thou. Would that make you " 'holier than thou' than thou" ?

Yes. That's why I started this thread, to spread the word.

Evolution hasn't happened yet, so it will never happen?

I'm fine with that too, but that's kind of another thread. If you want to continue teaming up with ILTB to **** on me about that, you can go over here.

RubeRad

strict adherence is killing people?!?! STOP THE MADNESS

Posted speed limit is a good start. Yes, posted limits differ by regional policy, and yes every posted limit is slower than some people can safely handle, and faster than some people can safely handle. if cars actually observed limits, it wouldn't be hard to adjust limits.

I-Like-To-Bike

Nobody needs to team up to make a **** of you on this (non-bicycling related) topic, you manage it all by yourself when you spread "the word" as interpreted by yourself.
This thread is long overdue (about since post one) to be redirected to Foo or P&R oblivion.

PeteHski

We should be allowed to drive at the speed limit, when conditions allow, without risk of being prosecuted for speeding. I haven’t lost any notion of what “limit” means and that has nothing to do with enforcing speed limits in a fair and practical manner.

You used the word “nonsense” earlier and what you have said here is indeed nonsense.

bbbean 

This has the law of unintended consequences written all over it.

Troul 

even if a police officer were to pull over someone, take extra time to conduct business, that is driving less than 5 mph in going over the posted speed limit to issue a warning might bring about some benefits to the local area.
If enough time is "wasted" issuing that warning, the speeders might either slow it down or gain a bigger offense to try & battle in court.

tomato coupe

wut?

Troul 

rather than let the folks that drive 5 to 10 over keep doing what they do, pull them over & take 20 minutes or longer to issue the warning before the traffic stop is wrapped up. If the perp decides to be a bag of Ds, issue a ticket instead of the warning.

tomato coupe

Okay. Is the goal to waste the driver's time or the cop's time?

PeteHski

That sounds like 20 minutes of wasted police time.

Over here the tickets are issued by mail. There is no stopping involved unless you are doing something reckless. If you drive 5 over in a 30 zone you get a ticket. I set my adaptive cruise max at 10% over, so 33 in a 30. I do dial it down to 30 or less when approaching pedestrians etc out of respect for the limit.

It’s not a bad system overall and you can’t really complain if you get a speeding ticket because you would have to be clearly over the limit by 10% +2.

Troul 

i'd rather my tax dollars be wasted by wasting the offenders time using the force from the police personnel. It'd be a good task for the rookie cops or those soon to retire.

Troul 

I dont want a camera doing the job that is the duty of an officer. If the issue is not having enough police workers, then that is a funding issue that needs to be addressed sooner rather than later.

tomato coupe

Purposely wasting the time of the police will be a surefire hit with everyone.

Troul 

only one way to find out, let them try it out.

tomato coupe

It's a bit like hitting yourself with a hammer -- you don't have to try it to know it's not a good idea.

Troul 

i wouldn't know about that one, I don't get off hitting myself with a hammer. Thanks for sharing... I guess.

PeteHski

Speed limit enforcement is more of a technical challenge. Cameras have proven to be far more effective than humans in this task. That's why cameras are now literally everywhere across the UK and most of Europe and you are far more likely to get a speeding ticket than 30 years ago. They are getting ever more sophisticated with smart average speed cameras, so you can't just hit the brakes as you pass them. Come and drive across London or any other big city here and see how it works.

Leisesturm

Actually it is more of a recruitment/available worker issue than funding. All big cities are finding that there simply aren't enough people willing to do ANYTHING in the numbers that they were pre-Covid. My transit system has had a signing bonus of $7500 (up from $2500) and they have raised the hourly wage three times. It's now $28/hr. and they still are short of bus/train operators. Critically short. The police dept. is short hundreds of officers and there simply aren't enough people without criminal records and/or the willingness to work among the increasingly violent and unhinged populace (same reason bus/train operators shy away) to staff the system properly.

Chuck M 

I've been easily influenced by this thread apparently. Today on the highway, I tried setting my cruise control to 10% over the posted limit. I was still getting passed, just not as much as when I set it to the limit.

Alan K

That’s not the only reason why, but it is one of the reasons.

RubeRad

Awareness does influence behaviors. That's why they put unmanned, non-ticket-giving, information-only speed-gun mph signs on the sides of roads. Just seeing their speed shown to them from an external source makes drivers slow down.

Alan K

Every time I am around a big city, I feel like if I didn’t go at least 10 miles over the speed limit, someone is going to hit me in the back.
Last year driving around Florida (after a long gap) was educational - some drivers with their fancy sports cars go around criss-crossing lanes like they are in a Hollywood movie. Fortunately, you ca hear them coming because of the very loud buzzing sounds. And hope that they will change lane at least a few yards from rear end… not much you can do about it. There are rarely any cops around when that happens. May be it’s my age speaking…