MajorT

I recently purchased an Selle Italia Storica, new and boxed with all the extras, bag, tools, and cream...not a bad price at £49.
Looks good out of the box no complaints and fitted to my single speed easy enough.
But I think I've got an issue that maybe someone out there can help me with. After fitting the saddle and sitting on it a few times for adjusting etc I noticed a couple of creases appeared starting about halfway down the middle about 6cm long. I thought it was normal as the saddle felt ok . I took it for a quick 20 mile ride on checking it again the number of creases had increased ( no pun intended) and the area as flattened slightly and lost its convexed profile, the area can be pressed in with palm with medium pressure. My question is, Is this normal for this saddle? Does the saddle have to be pretensioned before use? If I hold the sides in then it returns to its original shape until I let go.
Ive seen used Brooks that have retained there shape in this area after 1000s of km so I'm not to sure what to think.
I can’t find any info on this online hence the questions. So any advice would be greatly appreciated. It is setup for me to sit on the widest part for my sit bones and comfort .I’ve included some pics hopefully this will show you what I mean.
My concern is if it looks like this after 20 miles what will it be like months down the line.

bargainguy

The Storica retails for $120 in the US:

https://www.amazon.com/selle-ITALIA-...01M1O6JWL?th=1

If you bought yours new for 50 pounds....hmm. Sure it's legit?

It's hard to tell from the photos. Does it seem like real leather, or more like imitation?

Only reason I ask: I've never seen real leather do what yours is doing.

grumpus

It's a leather sandwich with some sort of reinforcing mesh, probably something like polyamide or UHMWPE, in the middle, so won't act like a single thickness of leather. I think the idea is for it to be soft while resisting stretching. It's been around for a few years and doesn't seem to have had much uptake, so I wouldn't be surprised to see someone discounting surplus stock.

MajorT

Thanks for the reply’s….

It’s definitely the genuine article right down to the inc tools cream and original box. I think it’s just old surplus stock.

I did find a used one for sale. You’ll notice from the pics that it’s retained its shape but just as importantly the position of the adjustment bolt compared to mine. The used one looks unadjusted and mine is in a different position!

Troul 

anytime leather [pleather] is stacked to form what a poster has mentioned in a previous reply, it tends to crease. How it rebounds to it former surface shape isn't always going to result in what it looked like out of the box.

nomadmax 

You don't have much money in it. If it's comfortable, call it a win and ride it.

easyupbug 

My brother had one of these and I don't recall anything unusual about it but certainly a new saddle should not have had the tension adjusted out as you show in the photo as that would be more typical after many miles.

freeranger

I wonder how old the used saddle in post #4 might be? Perhaps the leather used was made to be more comfortable sooner and it's too supple so as to allow a quicker break in. Never owned one, but have read that Brooks take around 300 miles to break in. But Brooks is not a laminated design either. Perhaps the laminated design is in need of some re-design?

easyupbug 

I would try Saddle Sauce from Selle Anatomic (who builds "laminate design" leather) which I use on all 6 or my leather suspension saddles. Creases form with the leather hardens over time and laxes suppleness which does not let it give. The Selle Anatomica help line is a good one and they might render an opinion if Selle Italia have no comment.

grumpus

Comparing the two, yours seems to have been tightened a lot - what happens if you slacken it off?

FBinNY 

FWIW my Brooks Pro saddle from 1967 formed the same pattern when fairly new. That seat continued to serve with those "cracks" for over 20 years and 50k+ miles. I still have that bike and the saddle still has those cracks.

MajorT

Plenty food for thought here....

1. certainly a new saddle should not have had the tension adjusted out as you show in the photo as that would be more typical after many miles........ My thoughts too!

2. Saddle Sauce from Selle Anatomic......Selle Anatomica help line is a good one and they might render an opinion if Selle Italia have no comment........Good idea I will definitely drop Selle Italia a line, be interesting to see what they say.

3. laminated design is in need of some re-design?......quite possibly, Selle Italia are not making them anymore so who knows you maybe onto something.

4. Comparing the two, yours seems to have been tightened a lot - what happens if you slacken it off?......Agreed, I'll definitely give it a try.

5. Brooks Pro saddle from 1967 20 years......Love this one! They don't make them like they use too!..I doubt I could say the same about this one in 20 years time.

Thanks for the reply's I'll adjust the tension, use the cream that came with it and will drop Selle Italia an email. It might be superficial (wishful thinking) and if so as nomadmax says I'll ride it and hope it stays good for as long as I need it to.

sweeks

That looks to me like the pattern that would result from compression of the saddle between the rider's legs, not from either excessive or insufficient tension.
I wouldn't worry about it. With normal maintenance, I'd expect the saddle to have a normal lifespan.

MajorT

Thanks Sweeks, definately another point worth considering.

mackgoo

How tight is the stretch?

Duragrouch

I've not experienced this. Looking at the mechanics of this: That area of the saddle is an inverted U section, held in tension by the steel frame, with downward force applied at the closed end of the U, which will result in compression forces (front to back) in line with the leather on top, and tension forces on the bottom (open end). So wrinkling would seem to be normal to me, if the leather is still stiff, with the "neutral axis" in bending, being partway down the sides. If the leather were soft, the sides would tend to flare out, losing some of the U shape, and you'd have more of a hammock. If that U section were reversed, open side up, in addition to being uncomfortable, the "edges" would then be loaded in compression, and not thick enough to resist that, and they would buckle. This is why U-sections are loaded in compression on the closed end and tension on the open end. Increasing the tension adjustment on the frame may help cancel some of the compression on the top side, but be careful, you may have sufficient mechanical advantage to cause damage at the rivets. Something in tension, the shallower the depression, the higher the tension, for a given load. So a looser adjustment will sag a bit lower under load, and more localized compression (wrinkles) on top, a tighter adjustment will be less sag under load, less compression, and a tighter, more rigid feel of the saddle.

MajorT

Not really sure on this, the saddle felt firm enough. So had no need to adjust tension. When the crease appeared I observed the bolts position and its more or less where it was when received it. I turned it a couple of quarter turns but backed of until I new what was needed. As stated previously the bolt is in a different position than the used saddle.

MajorT

Think I understand most of what you're saying. Im definitely wary of adjusting without fully understanding why I'm turning the bolt and how much turning to do. Knowing the implications of overdoing it etc. It would be great if the saddle came with a standard factory setting. Then the user could adjust tension according to rider weight and comfort needs as required.

Duragrouch

Let me further qualify what I said, after a day of thinking: What I described in terms of compression on top and tension on the bottom, that applies to a *rigid beam*, supported at the ends, with a load in the middle. An example is a floor joist, supported at the ends, with you standing in the middle. However, the saddle leather is not a rigid beam; It has *some* beam stiffness, due to the sides of the saddle formed downward, that provides much better stiffness than just a "tape" strip of leather on top and no sides; However, it still relies on keeping the leather in fore/aft tension by the steel frame, to keep it from collapsing in the center under load, so it's a combination in function of a beam, and a "sling". That sling tension might cancel any beam compression forces at the top. A good analogy is spokes; the spoke at the bottom when rolling, is never loaded in compression, it's always in tension, but when at the bottom, the tension is simply *reduced*, and if the spoke tension goes to zero, it's a problem, that's how spokes loosen. Accordingly with your seat, because it is partly a beam, that would imply some compression forces on top when loaded, but for the saddle to not collapse, I think there is sufficient tension (or should be) such that the top is never in true compression. Having said that, where most saddle forces are applied, aft, it does not have the depth of shape as further forward, so more sling forces there, so perhaps, to get the right feel aft (under your butt bones), the tension may be such that there can be some slight beam compression (and wrinkling) on top where the saddle has deep sides. A lot of that can depend how you like your saddle to support, butt bones, or further forward under your crotch. My preference has shifted aft over time.

MajorT

Thank you for making that perfectly clear Duragrouch...you're well thought out concise and articulate response to my dilemma whilst simultaneously poking fun.....at my expense is appreciated, thank you.

Duragrouch

Glad to help. Actually, I had no intention at all, to poke fun at your expense, not at all. Just limited in terminology to explain things.

grumpus

I wonder if they're cheap because they're returns - someone could have tried it, not liked it, tightened it, still not liked it, returned it. Because I'm pretty sure the factory default tension would be at or near the lowest setting.

MajorT

That's a fair point Grumpus I'll bear that in mind.