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Trip report: Folders from Taipei Cycle Show

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Old 03-10-12, 09:31 AM
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Taipei Tony
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Trip report: Folders from Taipei Cycle Show

Hi all, I went to the Taipei Cycle Show earlier today and here's my trip report.

Keep in mind that I'm a newb when it comes to folders(and bikes in general). So there won't be a lot of bike terminology or technical details. Here's my story from the Intro. forum: https://www.bikeforums.net/showthread...lo-from-Taipei

I am just about to buy my first legit folder. Before I went, I had already researched and chose a few folders which I wanted to take a good look at. These include the Tern Link Uno, Tern Verge Duo, Dahon Mu Uno, Dahon Jifo, and the Curve D3. But I also wanted to keep an open mind.

Of course all the major players in the foldie markert were there, Brompton, Ori, Pacific Cycles, Tern, Dahon, Oyama, Strida, KHS, Flamingo, and many others. Even though I have been researching and looking at folders for the past few years, I have never actually seen any of them in person.

This was the first time that I got to actually see and touch all the great folders that I've been reading so much about.

I will save the best for last, the folder which I am seriously thinking about buying. It was a surprise for me too.

Ok first, I was very surprised at how heavy and bulky these folders actually are. From what I saw online, these things were very portable and could be easily whisked around. But I was somewhat dissappointed. I had chosen a max. weight of 25lbs for any potential folder as I thought 25lbs would be fairly light. Boy was I surprised, 25lbs definitely did not feel light to me! Perhaps I'm just too weak, I am a skinny Asian lol. I see myself struggling to lug 25lbs up and down the stairs everyday.

Another aspect that surprised me was that the folding/unfolding of these things wasn't as smooth and fast as I had imagined. None of the big name folders really impressed me in terms of fold speed and fold simplicity.

Here are some unique and notable folders that I came across.

This one looks similar to the Strida when folded up, it's called “5 Links”, I had never seen it before. I didn't inquire much about it as it was way too heavy. Here's their website: https://www.bev-intl.com/complete-bike.htm



Speaking of Strida, they had a new 3 speed model called the “Evo”. Some type of integrated shifting system that you activate by backpedaling 60 degrees, sounds pretty crazy.

Here is a folding bike made of titanium by a Taiwanese company called Hasa. I was shocked by how crazy light this thing was! Not only that, the folding mechanism on this bike is the best that I've seen. It was extremely easy and hassle free to hinge and unhinge the joint. I could actually open this one without straining myself or hurting my fingers. But the price on this thing is just ridiculous. The guy told me that it retails for 120,000nt(~$4,100us) but he can sell it to me for 100,000nt(~$3,400us). Titanium is expensive but damn those prices just seem way too out of line. However, it is featherlight, he said 8.4kg or so.



Speaking of titanium, there was also a titanium Brompton there. I was really looking forward to checking out the Brompton as I had heard so much about it(“all roads lead to Brompton”). The bike was nice, the fold was nice too. But the one thing that stood out was the screw hinges. It just seems a little slow to screw and unscrew, a minor complaint to an otherwise fine bike. The Taiwanese distributor quoted me 37,000nt(~$1,250us) for the base model. The titanium model is around 60,000nt(~$2,000us). Needless to say, the Brompton is out of my budget.

Now onto Terns and Dahons. As mentioned earlier, I wanted to check out the Link Uno, Verge Duo, Mu Uno, and the Jifo. I completely ignored all the other models as there is no chance I'm buying any of them. First up, Link Uno vs. Mu Uno: The MuUno is listed at around 3lbs lighter than the Link, but I still found it to be a bit heavy. I couldn't really feel any difference between the Link and the Speed in terms of weight, they both felt the same, pretty strange.

Now onto the folding mechanisms. What really stood out was that the Tern's release latch required a lot of force and strength to open/unlock. The way I'd describe it is that the Tern's latch requires a hard 'snap' to open and close. It requires a sizable amount of strength to 'snap' it open. Closing it is no problem but the opening, I foresee lots of pain and suffering. I can see myself busting up my knuckles and fingers trying to open the latches. This compares with Dahon's latches which can be be described as a slow 'squeeze' to close, and a controlled 'pull' to open. The Dahon's system seemed much safer for my hands and fingers lol.

Tern had a test area outside so I was fortunate enough to test ride both the Uno and the Duo. With the Duo, I like the fact that it has gears but at the same time, it doesn't have any cables, derailleurs and what not. Plus it's an auto shifter, something I've never experienced before. From the the ride, it felt as if the 2nd gear kicked in way too late; The correct terminology would be that the gearing is too high on the 2nd gear? I don't think I'd hit those speeds on my commute. The Uno felt alright. The one thing that stood out was that it took a little too much effort to start from a standstill; The gearing is too high? Dahon didn't have any test rides available. Not a good pic here:


Now for the prices. These prices are for Tern and I really shouldn't be telling you guys this but what the hell. It's interesting because the guy showed me this chart with all the prices. It had a U.S. price, a Taiwanese retail price, and a “special” Taiwanese price. What's even more interesting is that the U.S. price on the Uno doesn't match the prices that I've seen online. This may sound complicated but here it goes: For example, the Uno is listed as $650 on many U.S. Retail sites. But it's listed U.S. price is only $599 on that chart. The listed U.S. price for the Duo is the same as the U.S. retail price, $1000. Now for the Taiwanese prices. The Uno has a retail price of 17,900nt($608) which matches almost exactly with their listed U.S. price. The “special” price is 14,900nt($506) which is $150 cheaper than U.S. retail prices, a significant savings. The Duo has a retail price of 29,990nt($1019), again this matches almost exactly as the listed U.S. price. The “special” price is 26,000nt($883), a savings of around $120 compared to U.S. retail.

No one at Dahon would give me any prices, for some reason they were being very secretive about it. If I had to pick between the the Tern Uno and the Duo, I guess I would pick the Uno. It's almost half the price of the Duo. And the 2nd gear on the Duo really doesn't give me any advantages.

Now finally, onto the finale! The folder which I was most impressed by, drum roll....the Giatex! It's actually a sliding bike, ala the Swift. I had seen and read about their bikes online. But I didn't give it much thought because it didn't seem to fold very small.

However, I was pleasantly surprised, even somewhat amazed. Not only did it fold smaller than expected but it was super light. Lighter than all the potential candidates. And it's folding mechanism was super smooth and simple. Sliding is definitely much faster than folding. This fast slide is only slightly slowed down by the need to tighten 3 hand screws. And yet another shocking aspect is it's price, only 8,000nt($270us)!!! That is super cheap for a quality folder. That's for the single speed model with the 16'x14' wheels. There's another model with a 3 speed internal hub which sells for ~13,000nt($440). Now I'm seriously considering this bike as it fits all my needs. And for only a few hundred dollars, it's not much of a risk. This is their website and the following are pics from the show(the model I am considering): https://www.giatex.com/



I hope you guys enjoy my trip report. Any comments or suggestions would be much appreciated
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Last edited by Taipei Tony; 03-10-12 at 10:25 AM.
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Old 03-10-12, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Taipei Tony
This is their website...
I don't see their web address. Btw - great post, thanks for sharing!
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Old 03-10-12, 10:07 AM
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Thanks for the info. I think the web address is www.giatex.com
Wonder if they'll become available in the U.S. soon.
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Old 03-10-12, 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted by JosephLMonti
I don't see their web address. Btw - great post, thanks for sharing!
Oops, nice catch.

Originally Posted by Casbah
Thanks for the info. I think the web address is www.giatex.com
Wonder if they'll become available in the U.S. soon.
Yep, that's the one.

https://www.giatex.com/
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Old 03-10-12, 10:39 AM
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Great Report
did you ride that Giatex ? Former models had a real funky ride, even with bigger wheels, but the top tube was turning and swiveling back and forth. They might have solved this and with the much smaller wheels might be good enough .

The Duomatic Automatic Sram hub shifts at around 8.5 miles per hour on the Tern Verge Duo. Most folks actually like it to shift at a higher speed. I find it it just ok a it is.
The Verge Duo is a top of the line Hydoformed ultra stiff frame.... versus the Link Uno which is "just" a normal frame ( albeit also very very stiff and light )
Good for them to let everybody testride their bikes, that after all by itself is a strong indication that they believe in their bikes and the purpose they are trying to achieve.

About folding time, the fastest folder must be Dahon Jifo ..its like 7 seconds..and it folds very very small. Weight is below your 25 lbs limit as well. But it is double as what you paid for the Gia... The Speed Uno is a great bike for the price and also very easy to mod and personalize ....

A lot depends on personal taste and thats a very good thing, some folks need a bike which can be used to hammer down the lycra clad "normal" bikers, some need a lot of gears, some need less, some like steel, some like Internal hubs and the list goes on and on ... it would be very bad if everybody would lust after the same bike . Most likely I would be out of business... soooo competition and variety is very good.

Again great report and have fun with your new bike. You know we want to see pics :-)

thor
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Old 03-10-12, 10:51 AM
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Ti & everything stainless or aluminum would be a winner in the Yachting crowd,
just tie the thing so it won't wash over the side, under way,
and it would be excellent.

other than stumbling over it sail handling..
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Old 03-10-12, 11:53 AM
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you got it fietsbob....
Currently its a Curve Sl with Internal hub.
Not lashed to the outside but tucked away securly out of sight.
Too much stuff to trip over as it is, plus the saltspray will simply destroy everything, if not constantly washed with ( rare and expensive) freshwater.
Lusting for a alloy polished Curve with 2 speed automatic, and maybe a real simple ( but nice) trailer, to haul gas, water, groceries

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Old 03-10-12, 06:25 PM
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I would note that the price you quoted for the Giatex 3-speed IGH model is not much less than the price of a Curve D3 (if you can find one). What would probably stop me from considering the Giatex are the two different wheel sizes, plus I don't know how readily available 14" tires and inner tubes (and wheels) are.

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Old 03-11-12, 08:17 AM
  #9  
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Originally Posted by Taipei Tony
Hi all, I went to the Taipei Cycle Show earlier today and here's my trip report.
....
Now for the prices. These prices are for Tern and I really shouldn't be telling you guys this but what the hell. It's interesting because the guy showed me this chart with all the prices. It had a U.S. price, a Taiwanese retail price, and a “special” Taiwanese price. What's even more interesting is that the U.S. price on the Uno doesn't match the prices that I've seen online. This may sound complicated but here it goes: For example, the Uno is listed as $650 on many U.S. Retail sites. But it's listed U.S. price is only $599 on that chart. The listed U.S. price for the Duo is the same as the U.S. retail price, $1000. Now for the Taiwanese prices. The Uno has a retail price of 17,900nt($608) which matches almost exactly with their listed U.S. price. The “special” price is 14,900nt($506) which is $150 cheaper than U.S. retail prices, a significant savings. The Duo has a retail price of 29,990nt($1019), again this matches almost exactly as the listed U.S. price. The “special” price is 26,000nt($883), a savings of around $120 compared to U.S. retail.

....
Forget the red herring regarding prices... The USA types WILL NOT work for asian wages, NOR live in Asia on asian wages. Period.
You speak of different prices as if any western has a clue about differing standards of living, and...

Forget the price differences. GET what suits you and swallow the price differences - unless you want to work in a sweat-shop and learn Mandarin..
Cheap is cheep - and that includes red herrings...
Bin der, dunn dat.
BTW, I am overseas travelling and see LOTS of expats living high-off-the-hog on their western savings in "cheap" (or is it inexpensive) surroundings while the locals cobble together their wages for their families and are VERY happy that the westerners are here... providing them with a living that none of the expats would want
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Old 03-11-12, 08:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Casbah
Thanks for the info. I think the web address is www.giatex.com
Wonder if they'll become available in the U.S. soon.
I think it's available in the U.S. This guy has it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TCM5JFQ2e8E

Here's the bike on their site: https://ridethisbike.com/products/Gia...lding-bike.htm
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Old 03-11-12, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by brakemeister
The Duomatic Automatic Sram hub shifts at around 8.5 miles per hour on the Tern Verge Duo. Most folks actually like it to shift at a higher speed. I find it it just ok a it is.
The Verge Duo is a top of the line Hydoformed ultra stiff frame.... versus the Link Uno which is "just" a normal frame ( albeit also very very stiff and light )
Good for them to let everybody testride their bikes, that after all by itself is a strong indication that they believe in their bikes and the purpose they are trying to achieve.
Really, only 8.5mph?! It felt much faster to me, but I'm no expert lol. Frame stiffness is not a major concern for me so I think the Uno frame is more than sufficient for me. It's interesting to note that the Duo is actually lighter than the Uno(although by a very small margin).

Originally Posted by brakemeister
About folding time, the fastest folder must be Dahon Jifo ..its like 7 seconds..and it folds very very small. Weight is below your 25 lbs limit as well. But it is double as what you paid for the Gia... The Speed Uno is a great bike for the price and also very easy to mod and personalize ....
I checked out the Jifo. There was a very nice Dahon engineer that helped me out a lot. It has a very cool and quick fold. But for me, the fold wasn't extremely smooth, it kept getting stuck when I was trying to collapse it. Maybe because I'm new to folders so I'm not too proficient at folding yet. It's very light and folds small. But it's also very expensive, especially for just a single speed. It's about the same price as the as Verge Duo. For the money, I'd probably go with the Duo.

I didn't see the Speed Uno there and it's not on their website. I think it's been discontinued?

Originally Posted by brakemeister
Again great report and have fun with your new bike. You know we want to see pics :-)
I haven't bought it yet. I'm having trouble making a final decision lol.
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Old 03-11-12, 08:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jiten
I would note that the price you quoted for the Giatex 3-speed IGH model is not much less than the price of a Curve D3 (if you can find one). What would probably stop me from considering the Giatex are the two different wheel sizes, plus I don't know how readily available 14" tires and inner tubes (and wheels) are.
I was actually really interested in the D3 before the show. I was drawn to it by it's 3 speed hub, it supposed lightweight, and it's small 16' wheels. I had been checking it out on the Taiwanese E-shops and auction sites. They are going for around 10,000nt($340us), which is actually cheaper than the Giatex 3 speed.

But like I said earlier, I was really surprised by how heavy it was. And weight is a very important factor for me. The Giatex felt much much lighter.
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Old 03-11-12, 11:56 AM
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Some pics from me:

20" 451 seems to be the trend:

Ultremo ZX, Panaracers Lite and even bright green!

One of the many small wheel carbon


Trigon 20" 451 carbon fork (WANT!)


Cool Brompton tool kit



119 CarryMe is designed/commissioned to help evacuate Japanese workers as quickly as possible in case of Earthquake/sunami, "In case of emergency, ride bike!" it uses solid tyres to make sure the bike is ready to go at all times.


Wheelchair users can, on their own, turn their wheel chairs into hand cycles in seconds, CarryChair comes with 8 gears and it folds

Carbon Fibre Mezzo/Ori looks great!

and folded,only slightly bigger fold than its alloy brother
https://i.imgur.com/5OWnQ.jpg
Badass folding recumbent on the right, full suspension, crazy cable steering, you adjust the height by pedalling


JiFo folding
https://i.imgur.com/DVwrb.jpg

Fake Brompton/Flamingo
https://i.imgur.com/AEPda.jpg

Fake Dahon/Korean company Houan
https://i.imgur.com/AEPda.jpg
Cool minivelo by Japanese Kimori (Moulton tribute) rides VERY WELL, I was very impressed.
https://i.imgur.com/AEPda.jpg

Tern had adverts in all the undeground trains, not the most original/creative but effective
https://i.imgur.com/AEPda.jpg
Great colours on this Dahon
https://i.imgur.com/WUM3N.jpg

The best part of the show, as always is the Test Track!


More pictures of the show here: https://imgur.com/a/dakqS

Juan
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Old 03-11-12, 12:00 PM
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Some pics from me:

20" 451 seems to be the trend:

Ultremo ZX, Panaracers Lite and even bright green!

One of the many small wheel carbon
https://i.imgur.com/YuCXB.jpg
Trigon 20" 451 carbon fork (WANT!)


Cool Brompton tool kit



119 CarryMe is designed/commissioned to help evacuate Japanese workers as quickly as possible in case of Earthquake/sunami, "In case of emergency, ride bike!" it uses solid tyres to make sure the bike is ready to go at all times.


Wheelchair users can, on their own, turn their wheel chairs into hand cycles in seconds, CarryChair comes with 8 gears and it folds

Carbon Fibre Mezzo/Ori looks great!

and folded,only slightly bigger fold than its alloy brother
https://i.imgur.com/5OWnQ.jpg
Badass folding recumbent on the right, full suspension, crazy cable steering, you adjust the height by pedalling


JiFo folding
https://i.imgur.com/DVwrb.jpg

Fake Brompton/Flamingo
https://i.imgur.com/AEPda.jpg

Fake Dahon/Korean company Houan
https://i.imgur.com/AEPda.jpg
Cool minivelo by Japanese Kimori (Moulton tribute) rides VERY WELL, I was very impressed.
https://i.imgur.com/AEPda.jpg

Tern had adverts in all the undeground trains, not the most original/creative but effective
https://i.imgur.com/AEPda.jpg
Great colours on this Dahon
https://i.imgur.com/WUM3N.jpg

The best part of the show, as always is the Test Track!


More pictures of the show here: https://imgur.com/a/dakqS

Juan
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Old 03-11-12, 03:32 PM
  #15  
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Originally Posted by Taipei Tony
This one looks similar to the Strida when folded up, it's called “5 Links”, I had never seen it before. I didn't inquire much about it as it was way too heavy. Here's their website: https://www.bev-intl.com/complete-bike.htm
The 5 links bike is just like a combination of Strida, CarryMe, Carry Bike and Dahon Dove.

https://5links.jp

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Old 03-11-12, 05:35 PM
  #16  
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SUPER Thanks great pics
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