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What tools? Help with removing vintage freewheel, stem, headset

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What tools? Help with removing vintage freewheel, stem, headset

Old 10-22-20, 07:31 PM
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What tools? Help with removing vintage freewheel, stem, headset

Apparently I don't have the right tools for these and I don't know what I need. Heelllppp please!

Thia mid-80's 6 speed freewheel needs some sort of removal tool I don't currently have - anyone know what I need? I've got an FR 1.3, FR 5.2G, FR 4, FR 6. Only the FR6 has a diameter wide enough to even reach the insertion slots, but that's obviously not the right tool. All the rest of the tool are far too narrow of a diameter.


This crazy headset?


And this 3ttt stem - I got the tiny top cap off, but apparently the actual hex nut is way down at the base inside the stem? I got a screwdriver down there with a hex nut on it, but man i couldn't get any leverage to lefty loosey that sucker. Am I doing it right? Suggestions for getting leverage?


Appreciate any help.
Thanks!!
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Old 10-22-20, 07:50 PM
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I actually have that headset tool.

Though doing a quick search pulls up some modern options as well. I don't know you will find one commonly but maybe ask an older wrench at your LBS maybe they might have one.

For the stem I would use a non-ball end hex wrench and loosen, you maybe even put a small piece of pipe for leverage on the L or T handle wrench, Don't loosen all the way though just enough to where it should move and sometimes a mallet will knock it enough to allow you to lift out.

I am unsure on the freewheel if you can get some better shots of it and maybe the maker I might have a better shot figuring it out but there maybe someone who knows freewheels better than I.
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Old 10-22-20, 08:37 PM
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Oh also how do I remove this bottom bracket? Was thinking of servicing it perhaps since it hasn't been touched since the late 80's?? Maybe not. I dunno.


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Old 10-22-20, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
I actually have that headset tool.

.
...there used to be a guy on ebay selling reproductions of these Shimano specific wrenches. They work better in pairs.

They show up used sometimes. If you don't want to invest in the proper wrenches, you can usually get by with taping the jaws of some pump pliers so they don't mark up the soft aluminum. But the proper wrenches are the way to go if you plan on doing this a lot. I've never seen that freewheel. I would be tempted to just do a destructive removal, throw it away, and use a freewheel from the stash box for which I have the tool.
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Old 10-22-20, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy
Oh also how do I remove this bottom bracket? Was thinking of servicing it perhaps since it hasn't been touched since the late 80's?? Maybe not. I dunno.


...lock ring plier and pin spanner. Leave the fixed cup in place and clean everything. Reinstall with fresh grease.
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Old 10-22-20, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy
Oh also how do I remove this bottom bracket? Was thinking of servicing it perhaps since it hasn't been touched since the late 80's?? Maybe not. I dunno.


https://www.parktool.com/blog/repair...e-cup-and-cone

You may also need the Stein Fixed Cup Remover which is made in 'Merica. Kingsbridge also made one but I don't know if you will find one new or easily these days. I am pretty sure Kingsbridge is out of business. I think Hozan in Japan also makes a similar tool. I wish I had known about these tools on my old French thread Dura Ace BB as we ended up destroying it to get it out and this might have helped but I didn't know about those tools back then. Plus it did sort of lead to me getting the Phil Wood frame so I am not complaining.
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Old 10-22-20, 08:48 PM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy


And this 3ttt stem - I got the tiny top cap off, but apparently the actual hex nut is way down at the base inside the stem? I got a screwdriver down there with a hex nut on it, but man i couldn't get any leverage to lefty loosey that sucker. Am I doing it right? Suggestions for getting leverage?


Appreciate any help.
Thanks!!

...should be a socket head bolt down there, not a hex head. Get a light and take a better look.
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Old 10-22-20, 08:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 3alarmer
...there used to be a guy on ebay selling reproductions of these Shimano specific wrenches. They work better in pairs.

They show up used sometimes. If you don't want to invest in the proper wrenches, you can usually get by with taping the jaws of some pump pliers so they don't mark up the soft aluminum. But the proper wrenches are the way to go if you plan on doing this a lot. I've never seen that freewheel. I would be tempted to just do a destructive removal, throw it away, and use a freewheel from the stash box for which I have the tool.
I don't have that headset at all luckily but was given the wrench from a co-worker and may end up getting another at some point if I do open a shop but for right now it is just a tiny bit of extra weight in my tool box that looks cool and all the old mechs will recognize and nod to. Though I do recall having a 600 headset that might use that in my parts bin but I could have sold that, I cannot really remember anymore. If I need a threaded 1" headset I go Chris King it is something that will last forever and easy to work with. I so rarely want/need to do an exact correct build on something that I am building from scratch.



I am unsure of that particular stem but my 70s/80s era 3TTT stem uses an hex bolt down there.
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Old 10-22-20, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy
Apparently I don't have the right tools for these and I don't know what I need. Heelllppp please!

Thia mid-80's 6 speed freewheel needs some sort of removal tool I don't currently have - anyone know what I need? I've got an FR 1.3, FR 5.2G, FR 4, FR 6. Only the FR6 has a diameter wide enough to even reach the insertion slots, but that's obviously not the right tool. All the rest of the tool are far too narrow of a diameter.


Thanks!!
That is a Shimano Uniglide cassette. You use two chain whips to loosen the outer cog then the outer cog unscrews. The rest of the cogs slide off like a modern cassette.

From the looks of the skewer you have a bike with Shimano 600EX group of the early '80's.
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Old 10-22-20, 09:39 PM
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Polish guy has been selling them for years. https://www.ebay.com/c/904014371

Otherwise do a search on Ex/ax headset in C&V for other work arounds
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Old 10-22-20, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
Polish guy has been selling them for years. https://www.ebay.com/c/904014371

Otherwise do a search on Ex/ax headset in C&V for other work arounds

...thank you, That's the guy I was thinking of. I bought two from him, and they worked fine. I eventually came upon two of the Shimano originals, so donated those to the co-op here. God only knows what their eventual fate has been. I hope they're still around and available there, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 10-22-20, 10:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills
That is a Shimano Uniglide cassette. You use two chain whips to loosen the outer cog then the outer cog unscrews. The rest of the cogs slide off like a modern cassette.

From the looks of the skewer you have a bike with Shimano 600EX group of the early '80's.

...duhhh. Seems so obvious now.
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Old 10-23-20, 09:41 AM
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As Jeff Wills notes, that's a Uniglide cassette, not a freewheel.

The scalloped headset wrenches are nice, and less prone to damage the soft aluminum threaded pieces of that headset, but in a pinch, careful use of a standard 32mm headset wrench will also work.
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Old 10-23-20, 09:51 AM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy
Oh also how do I remove this bottom bracket? Was thinking of servicing it perhaps since it hasn't been touched since the late 80's?? Maybe not. I dunno.


A lockring spanner or lockring pliers will remove the ring. A pin spanner will remove the adjustable cup. There's no compelling need to remove the fixed cup unless you're replacing the whole bottom bracket.
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Old 10-23-20, 10:20 AM
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If you only have one chainwhip you can use it to unscrew the smallest cog. Put the wheel back on the bicycle and put the bicycle chain onto the largest cog. Put the chainwhip on the smallest cog and whilst holding the crankarm unscrew the smallest cog counter clockwise. Once loosened you remove the wheel and finish unscrewing that smallest cog. The rest of the cassette will slip right off. Oh, there's usually a very thing metal spacer between t hat smallest cog and the rest of the cassette. Be careful not to misplace that metal spacer.

If you're just cleaning and repacking the bottom bracket, it's not usual to remove the fixed cup on the drive side of the frame.

Cheers
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Old 10-23-20, 10:40 AM
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Originally Posted by dedhed
Polish guy has been selling them for years. https://www.ebay.com/c/904014371

Otherwise do a search on Ex/ax headset in C&V for other work arounds
Perfect. Thanks!!
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Old 10-23-20, 10:45 AM
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Wow lots of the exact info I was needing. Thanks everyone!

Do y'all think it's necessary to service the BB? It hasn't been ridden since about 1994. I don't have any of those tools and I certainly don't want to wait 4 weeks and pay a shop to do it. I mean, I can order the tools, but $$$. It wasn't ridden a heck of a lot between the time it was purchased the time it began hanging in the garage (per the guy I bought it from). I'm not sure how the whole thing rides aside from the test ride I did.

Is it instead possible to just put a new modern BB in with a matching spindle length?
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Old 10-23-20, 10:55 AM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy
Wow lots of the exact info I was needing. Thanks everyone!

Do y'all think it's necessary to service the BB? It hasn't been ridden since about 1994. I don't have any of those tools and I certainly don't want to wait 4 weeks and pay a shop to do it. I mean, I can order the tools, but $$$. It wasn't ridden a heck of a lot between the time it was purchased the time it began hanging in the garage (per the guy I bought it from). I'm not sure how the whole thing rides aside from the test ride I did.

Is it instead possible to just put a new modern BB in with a matching spindle length?
To install a new BB you still need the tools to remove the old one. Any bottom bracket that has been sitting for 26 years should be serviced. That one is well worth saving
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Old 10-23-20, 11:00 AM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil
To install a new BB you still need the tools to remove the old one.
good point.
*feels stupid now* lol
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Old 10-23-20, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Jeff Wills
That is a Shimano Uniglide cassette. You use two chain whips to loosen the outer cog then the outer cog unscrews. The rest of the cogs slide off like a modern cassette.

From the looks of the skewer you have a bike with Shimano 600EX group of the early '80's.
Thanks for this - I watched a video on youtube on how to remove it once you had identified it. Looks like its time to buy some chainwhips.
And yes you are correct, the bike is a '86 or '87 Cilo with all Shimano 600 components. I spent the last day taking almost everything off (with the exception of the things in this thread) and checking the date codes. More info in this thread on the bike in C&V if you're interested or have any other things to add for me: https://www.bikeforums.net/classic-v...nfo-input.html
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Old 10-23-20, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy
good point.
*feels stupid now* lol
I was just pointing out something you overlooked while dealing with a few other issues. As well, to install a sealed BB you need still another tool along with the price of the new BB. Servicing the current BB is by far the cheapest option
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Old 10-23-20, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by alcjphil
I was just pointing out something you overlooked while dealing with a few other issues. As well, to install a sealed BB you need still another tool along with the price of the new BB. Servicing the current BB is by far the cheapest option
I do already have the park tool bbt22 tool, so that's something.
I'm always looking to add tools so I'll probably pick up that pin spanner and the flat wrench for the drive-side (even if I don't have to remove it to service I want to be able to if I need to). I think I already have a lock-ring tool. Should make for a good weekend project.

Should probably do the headset as well - gotta buy those wrenches as well. Why are all my hobbies so expensive!!!!
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Old 10-23-20, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy
Wow lots of the exact info I was needing. Thanks everyone!

Do y'all think it's necessary to service the BB? It hasn't been ridden since about 1994. I don't have any of those tools and I certainly don't want to wait 4 weeks and pay a shop to do it. I mean, I can order the tools, but $$$. It wasn't ridden a heck of a lot between the time it was purchased the time it began hanging in the garage (per the guy I bought it from). I'm not sure how the whole thing rides aside from the test ride I did.

Is it instead possible to just put a new modern BB in with a matching spindle length?
After 25 years the grease has probably hardened. If the bike wasn't ridden a lot (as you said) then the cups, spindle and bearings are fine and all they need is cleaning and new grease. Without new grease it could wear quickly.

You can install a new cartridge BB- there are plenty with the correct spindle length. A complicating factor is that the BB is Italian thread (36mm x 24tpi). The vast majority of BB's made today are English thread.
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Old 10-23-20, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy
Wow lots of the exact info I was needing. Thanks everyone!

Do y'all think it's necessary to service the BB? It hasn't been ridden since about 1994. I don't have any of those tools and I certainly don't want to wait 4 weeks and pay a shop to do it. I mean, I can order the tools, but $$$. It wasn't ridden a heck of a lot between the time it was purchased the time it began hanging in the garage (per the guy I bought it from). I'm not sure how the whole thing rides aside from the test ride I did.

Is it instead possible to just put a new modern BB in with a matching spindle length?
Happy to do a small part in helping.

YES on servicing the BB, a thousand times yes. My god yes I cannot say yes enough times. I just wish I had done it to my Cilo when I first got it instead of waiting, it may have already been seized but I might have had a better chance of saving it. I believe any old BB should be pulled and re-greased on every bike unless you installed it and greased it well in the first place and are confident it has not seized at all. However with cup and cone I would still service the dang thing.

You can put a new BB in but you do need to remove the old one first which it looks like you figured out. That would be my chosen route honestly. I like the IRD QB-99 Defiant bottom brackets they are really really really nice, smooth and of great quality. Honestly they are my go to square taper BB and the only reason to do something else is if for some reason you have a Phil Wood frame like I did or you already got the SKF one years ago and it is still going and probably won't quit either. They also do the Tenacity QB-40 (I believe) which is an old school cup and cone like what you have which is kind of neat for those who are strict in their vintage builds.
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Old 10-24-20, 06:12 AM
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Originally Posted by the sci guy
Do y'all think it's necessary to service the BB? It hasn't been ridden since about 1994. I don't have any of those tools and I certainly don't want to wait 4 weeks and pay a shop to do it. I mean, I can order the tools, but $$$.
Does the spindle rotate freely and smoothly? If so, it's not desperate to service it, but after 26 years I'd probably want to open it up and take a look.

Is it instead possible to just put a new modern BB in with a matching spindle length?
Sure, but in order to do that, you'll need those same tools you're concerned about buying and having to wait for, and another, different tool to install the modern bottom bracket cartridge, or pay a shop to do the work. And then there'd be some guesswork in determining what specific cartridge will work best with your crank.
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