seboros

Hello everybody!

During the Easter Holiday I visited my parents. Having a few spare days I decided to build my mother a bicycle for the summer and found this frame in the local ads. The curvaceous twin top tubes made me decide very quickly to buy it. It was painted black, but had a lot if rust especially on the bottom bracket area. I decided to give a first try to bicycle painting.

Here are some details:

English threaded BB;
130 mm rear spacing (maybe it was respaced);
A beautiful gothic lug that joins the twin top tubes to the seat tube;
"ESGE" inscription on the rear fender plate;
I could barely see the traces of two letters on the downtube paint before sanding it: "St" (Steyr maybe?).

Anyone has a guess on what it could be?

Here it is, in the process of sanding it:

juvela

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Thanks for sharing this interesting frame.

Wonder if it could be a KTM (Austria).

Did you get a fork with it or will you be supplying your own?

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cs1

ESGE is German. There's a whole lot brazing on that frame. It looks really well made.

seboros

Thank you, I'm glad you like it. It came with a fork allright, but I forgot to photograph it. I didn't get a chance to strip it of paint yet. Luckily mother waits patiently for her bike.

seboros

My best guess too is that the bike is German. Or perhaps Austrian (with the german ESGE fender and kickstand plates). The "St..." that appeared to have been the traces of the decals with the brand may also stand for Staiger? They were so faint that I could not capture them in a photo. It could well be austrian, even KTM.

rhm

Very cool!

I don't know what it is. You got only the frame and fork, is that correct? No other parts? Other parts might help us identify the provenance. Is the headset also English threaded?

My guess is, you are a lot closer to its point of origin than most of us (Americans) are! But whether Germany, Austria, or... what else... I won't guess.

You don't often see a mixte frame with Hetchins-style 'vibrant' stays! @bianchigirl would be interested.

seboros

The only similar or maybe identical lug in the middle of the seat tube that I've found on the web (here) is on a Bertin mixte:

seboros

Thank you for the comment! Indeed, I have seen over the years very few frames (two or thee) with similar curvy twin top tubes for sale in the local ads. As much as I recall, they were all sourced in Germany (apparently "Imported from Germany" is quite a selling point here in Romania, as a lot of sellers advertise it). I hope bianchigirl will be inspired to share an interesting detail about this kind of frame.

rhm

Right, that's not surprising, to find the same piece of hardware on a French bike; but it doesn't tell you where yours was made. The piece of hardware in question was made for the purpose of making mixte frames, and was available to anyone making frames. Whoever made your frame bought the ESGE brake plate from Germany, and this piece (which I cannot identify; it could be French, but I wouldn't be surprised if it is another ESGE product), and an English threaded bottom bracket shell, and all the other frame fittings, from some supplier somewhere.

With the English threaded bottom bracket, I think we can safely rule out France, Switzerland, and Italy. Beyond that, I don't know.

seboros

The only thing that came on it was a Shimano BB UN50 which spins smoothly and a headset made from mixed parts, including a Shimano 600 adjustable race. No clue here.

Velocivixen

Are there rivet holes in the head tube where a head badge would have been located? If so, measure the distance between them. This will give us a clue as to what the badge may have been.

A local CL seller had an "Astra" by Motobecane listed. My research indicated that it was a lower priced brand by Motobecane. It had similar stays as yours.

seboros

Thanks for the input! The head tube does not have rivet holes. Whatever the emblem there, it was most likely a decal. But there was no trace of it.

Scooper

That is a very interesting mixte type frame. The tubing is pretty clearly seamed, and my guess would be that it's plain gauge carbon steel. Any idea what the frameset weighs?

Did a fork come with it?

seboros

Yes, it also has a fork. I'm quite certaun the tubing is plain gauge - the frame is not very light. I'll weigh it when I return to my mother's.

By coincidence, I've found a pretty similar bike up for sale in another city. It's got Jungherz written on the down tube. My bet would be mine is a Jungherz too.

Bikeforumuser0019

Is it the same as this?
https://stlouis.craigslist.org/bik/6086963865.html

seboros

No, not at all. I'm pretty sure mine was intended to have a coaster brake.

juvela

That is some fine detective work to locate the Jungherz bicycle!

While it exhibits the same "berceau" pattern frame it does show some small differences from your frame.

The largest one is that the Jungherz is constructed with an Agrati bulge-formed head of the "AM" serie pattern. It is part nr. 201.8046. Note how the white lining stops as it moves toward the rear of the "head tube." This is because there is no edge there to lay it up against.

Your frame is made with a true three-pieces head consisting of a head tube and upper and lower head lugs.

The Jungherz frame appears to have two bridges between its laterals between the head and the seat tube. Your frame appears to have one.

The seat stay treatment of the two frames does not appear to be the same. From what shows in the photos the Jungherz appears simpler and yours a bit nicer.

The fork on the Jungherz has crimped ends. Judging by the build of your frame one would expect its fork to show true separate fork ends.

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seboros

Now THAT is some fine detective work. Thank you for the input, juvela!

You are right, mine has only one bridge between the head tube and the seat tube to connect the twin stays. Keen eye to identify the faux head tube lugs of the red bike! Indeed, my fork has separate fork ends. Great input - the search is still on

I was not aware that berceau is the french term for this kind of frame. Thanks again!

seboros

photos to upload

Happy 4th of July for the folks in the New World!

I finally managed to spray paint the frame I intend to transform into my mother's bike. The Duplicolor acrylic spray paints seem to be easy to work with. This was my first try at spray painting anything and I only got very few places with sagging paint. After about an hour of drying, I sanded them and resprayed and the paint was seamless. I first sprayed the whole frameset with two coats of light grey primer. Then, in a last moment of inspiration, I bought some ivory paint for the head tube and two cans of orange fluorescent paint to use as an underlayer for the metalic cherry colour on top. I think it worked somewhat, as the cherry color turned a bit more reddish when applied over the orange. Then I managed to get two layers of acrylic clear coat before the can ran empty. I'll add another layer next time I visit my folks.

After a day of drying, I had to make a mockup of the bike. Luckily only the steering coloumn got a bit scratched. I then disassbled the parts and carefully stored the frame.

I built the wheels around a pair of new Sturmey Archer hubs, with Ryde Zac Pro rims. I also bought a Selle Italia Net saddle, wich I think works really good with the overall neo-retro theme. I never really liked Brooks saddle.

Now that I saw the bike taking shape, I realised there are no braze-ons to guide the rear brake cable. There is, however, a hole in the rear plate on the seatstays in wich a Mafac centerpull brake fits perfectly. But I still have the cable routing problem. Unfortunately there's no bridge on the twin stays behind the seat tube, as it is customary for a lot of mixtes I've seen, to serve as a fixture for an elegant horizontally-placed rear centerpull brake. There are only two options I see now:

1. Install the rear brake on the seat stays bridge plate and route the cable with clamps on one of the twin stays and then up on the seat tube. On the seatpost binder bolt I could use a Surly Brake Hanger as a cable stop.

2. Make a fixture for the rear brake on the bridge plate where the kickstand would screw in, near the bottom bracket. Then I would route the cable with clamps on the down tube.

What do you guys think?

seboros

Here are some more pics:


photos uploaded


photos uploaded


photos uploaded

Velocivixen

That's gorgeous! Has your mother seen it like this yet? I can't wait to see how she likes it. You've lovingly done a wonderful job and thank you for the update.

seboros

Wow, thank you, @Velocivixen ! I'm glad you like the way I set it up. Yes, my mother has seen it. Her first reply was "It'll get stolen in a second."

Velocivixen

A nice strong U-Lock should do the trick!

gugie 

Fantastic paint job! Love the cream colored head tube.

seboros

Thank you, gugie! Indeed, ivory works really nice with any colour, dark or light. Rivendell made a kind of trademark from their ivory head tubes.