jonathanf2

I'm glad to see this conversation pan out and it actually helped me figure things out. I'll definitely reference this thread if I decide to go with an even lower gear setup. I'd love to go 1x, but since I usually opt to road bike on the streets before arriving at the trails, 2x has been more practical for me. Plus I feel this is one of the strengths of the gravel bike, being a fairly decent road bike that can handle rough terrain as well. Also Shimano's HG-500 series cassettes seem to be affordable and have the gearing necessary. I already have the Shimano 11-42t 10 speed cassette in my cart if I decide to pick one up!

Badger6

I'll add one other bit, and right up front this is not me saying "Pedal Dammit!": the best way to get better at hills, meaning they don't hurt as much, and you may even get faster at going up grades, is to go up grades...which it seems you've already been doing. So do more of it!

Until I moved to Germany a few years ago, I viewed hills as something that one had to simply deal with when riding a bike, but I never lived anywhere that had hills. Then I find myself on the edge of the Black Forest, and it seemed every route required me to go up hills (gravel or pavement), and frequently at gradients in excess of 7-8%, as they climbed up from the river valleys. I was at the time on a 50/36 2x setup with an 11-32 cassette, and I found myself in the 36f-32r combo, constantly and wishing I could go lower. But, I never got around to finding a bigger cassette, and I kept going up the hills. Then after a few months, it occurred to me that the hills just didn't feel hard anymore, and then I realized I wasn't in the "bailout" gear, and I was increasingly using more and more of the mid-range. Moral of the story, at 45 y/o, and 20kg heavier than I was racing crits in college, I was climbing hills better than I ever had...and I am not a climber. give that 11-36 a few months, and deliberately go ride the hills. I think you may find that instead of a huge non-spec'd cassette with big jumps and the potential for mechanical headaches to get it to work good enough, that the 11-36 will give you the range you need and keep the ratio spacing closer (beneficial on roads).

And, remember, as Greg Lemond used to say, it never get's easier, you just get faster.

Badger6

Reviews of their stuff is mixed, and the apparent quality puts it at Tourney levels, a significant downgrade from GRX400...but, if it delivers on its claims, it would definitively provide the capacity.

HTupolev

I admittedly haven't used S-Ride derailleurs at all, but what are you basing this on? I saw one post describing S-Ride derailleurs in general as comparable to Tourney, but it also refers to them as "stamped steel and plastic", which at least for the M520C seems to be a wildly inaccurate description. For instance, one of the most obvious places on a derailleur to use steel sheet is the tension cage, and Shimano derailleurs do this for pretty much the entire lower half of their range (my gravel bike's Alivio RD-T4000 for instance has steel cage plates), but the S-Ride M520C is noted to have aluminum cage plates. According to reviewers, it also has an overall weight very similar to the GRX800-series components. This isn't to say that I have any particular confidence in S-Ride's quality (it's entirely possible to poorly-manufacture lightweight aluminum derailleur components), but I haven't seen any reviews that would give me confidence that the M520C is especially poorly-constructed either.

Part of going faster on a hill is having appropriately-low gearing, though. Power is your pedaling torque multiplied by cadence: grinding a bottomed-out gear is slow, and it's a double-whammy because it's simultaneously fatiguing. And it can slow you down further by forcing you to ride more conservatively on the shallower portions of a climb, to ensure that you have the legs available to torque through the nasty spots. Because of the second point, my gravel bike arguably got more painful on some hills when I swapped the 11-28 cassette for an 11-32 a year and a half ago, as it allows me to spend more time closer to my limits.

Badger6

One review which was really more oaf a press sheet in a British mage that said they existed, and implied pretty much the rest of what you wrote after this. And, the same ****** post that you quoted. Mixed "reviews." Regardless, maybe it's just me, but I am not into taking my chances with components. I've had enough mechanical failure in my life to know that going cheap is not a good bet.


I'm well aware of how power works. I'm also well aware that the benefits of low gearing (meaning low ratios have limits). Your points are not incorrect, but I'd offer that the focus on getting to a 42T low gear in a setup that will be cobbled together and way beyond spec to overcome a perceived inability to perform when the earth pitches upwards, is a far less reliable solution than riding more and getting stronger. Maybe, it's the young racer in me despite being almost 50 (I can't believe I am admitting this top you, when I haven't admitted it to me) that refuses to accept as an acceptable substitute for training and conditioning is just cobbling together ridiculous gearing setups that are way beyond manufacturer specs and will inevitably lead to mechanical issues that will require either careful riding or constant maintenance to keep functioning (my experience when deciding I was smarter than Shimano's engineers). To each their own, my hat's off to those who make these things work. I just would rather ride focused on the ride without all the worries that would linger.

HTupolev

Sure, but this isn't necessarily "going cheap." The derailleur I'm referencing sells for $70-$80, which is in the price range between 105 and Ultegra.


The scope of this discussion doesn't provide much clarity as to where those limits are, though. Without knowing the OP's legs and the gradients they're dealing with, it's impossible to know what's reasonable. For instance, suppose someone is able to smoothly and powerfully handle a 250m 8% hill in their 36-28, so they use an 11-28 cassette. What would they need to pedal just as effectively if the hill was 12% instead? 50% more slope means 50% lower gearing to have similar torque and cadence, which means a 42T cog if the cranks are kept the same.

This kind of stuff isn't necessarily hypothetical. Loads of hills in my area are like that. Heck, there's one gravel road near me which has a 1-mile stretch averaging just shy of 16%.

(Really, I only get away with a 32T cog because I also have a 24T inner chainring. But that's not widely available for modern road setups, which is a big part of why people in mountainous areas are being forced into huge cassettes. I agree that it's often non-ideal, but it's often the path of least resistance for a viable solution within the current market.)

Quote:

that refuses to accept as an acceptable substitute for training and conditioning

"Training and conditioning" is an astronomically larger commitment compared with changing components, and there are practical limits for any given person, both in terms of what their body can do and in terms of what they want out of their cycling commitments. And it's not like these approaches are mutually exclusive, gearing versus fitness isn't an either-or situation.

DorkDisk

The wolftooth Tanpan will allow MTB derailleurs to be used with road shifters, the 10sp version allows up to 42t cogs.

jonathanf2

I am planning to do a 5066 ft. mountain climb, starting from my neighborhood that's at 568 ft. All roads leading to the trailhead will be uphill and the trailhead is an uphill fire road to reach the peak. I clock in at around 150 lbs. and lift weights 5 days a week, with an emphasis on back training, leg squats and HIIT. My current 11-34t isn't bad and I can ride most hills without much problem if I start the ride at the trailhead. My main issue is having enough strength if I opt to road bike to my location before hitting the trails. So I am taking all these factors into consideration, including bike performance, fitness and if I can sustain my energy levels for the duration of the ride.

Noonievut

I haven't read all of the posts, but as someone who owns the same Group, and has an 11-32 cassette, I would keep everything as is and simply get the 'larger' cassette, either now and you may need a new chain, or later when it's time to replace. I think it's a great Group and I wouldn't want to replace parts that are working perfectly, together. I bought an 11-34 and a spare chain for when it's time to replace, or if after tackling the largest hill in my area decided I "definitely" needed a bigger gear (thankfully I didn't). Or, if there are times of the year where you're using this bike and for months at a time don't need as large of a gear, just swap at that time.

jonathanf2

I just installed the 11-36t 10 speed cassette and tuned the front/rear derailleur. After a bit of adjustment it works great. In fact big/big chain worked fine and there was still a bit of slack, not that I'll ever use that gear. At least I know I won't bust my chain if I accidentally go there! Honestly, I'm just really happy I can have one bike that does it all. The Shimano GRX groupset and gravel biking in general is just awesome!

I'll test out the new cassette riding the local hills this weekend and see if there's a noticeable difference. I'll report back in this thread!

Noonievut

Looking forward to the report! You have me wanting to try my 34 now

jonathanf2

I took the bike out with the new 11-36t cassette and tried the hardest hills in my neighborhood. With the stock 11-34t, I felt like I could use another gear, but with the 11-36t I felt pretty good tackling the hills. It's a subtle difference, but it's noticeable and I don't find myself trying to shift lower. Also the gear jump goes from 32t to 36t and I can actually ride at 32t comfortably and only shifted to 36t when the elevation became too steep. My next step now is to swap my drop bars to something wider, so I can really dig into the cockpit once I settle into my lowest gear on a hillclimb for more stability.

greysquirrel

I use to ride a MTB. I just got a new gravel bike. and for the last several weeks and have been riding on road to get use to it. It has 31X 34 and I have to admit it isn't low enough. Some of the hills are >20% but I never had a problem with my MTB. I think my knees are going to explode before I get stronger. I wonder about when I start riding on dirt.

jonathanf2

I've been looking at 1x gravel setups as being better suited for hill climbing. I do like how some bikes like the Poseidon X have a 38t crank and 11-48t cassette. At it's lowest gear it actually has slightly better hillclimbing than my 30:36 low gear GRX setup. Now only if I can convince my wife I need another gravel bike!

jonathanf2

Okay I just want to throw this out here. Yesterday I tackled a 100-acre hillside designated for off-road Jeeps and lifted Toyota trucks. The hills were insanely steep and I'm not even sure if a well-geared MTB could handle the terrain. I was wondering given my current 46/30 + 11-36t setup, what would be the next drastic step for lower gearing?

Could my GRX 400 derailleur potentially handle an 11-40t cassette as-is or if I opt for a 11-42t cassette, should I look into a Wolftooth 10 speed GoatLink and maybe a new chain? I could just buy a mountain bike for this stuff, but I like the idea of one bike to ride it all!

covpride

The wolftooth and chain should probably allow for at least the 11-40t. I did a wolftooth and 11-40t on my old gravel bike that had the tiagra 4700. You could double check with wolftooth, but I feel like the goatlink and 11-40t shouldn't be an issue.

jonathanf2

I couldn't help myself, but I did order a Deore 11-42t 10 speed cassette and GoatLink. I also picked up a new chain as well just in case. I saw a video with someone trying the GRX 810 and it easily cleared 11-40t, but was on the edge with B-screw all the way in at 11-42t without GoatLink. With GoatLink, it did 11-42t easily. The GRX 400 actually has a higher minimum low sprocket at 36t, so I'll see how far I can push it.

greysquirrel

When I was researching gravel bikes, there was one manufacturer that spec'ed 11-40 cassettes with GRX 810 2x.I forgot which company but it was one of the lesser known non-American brands.

Bingod

Enjoy it.

jonathanf2

Just reporting back from the work stand! On the stock chain with the GRX 400 derailleur, GoatLink, stock B-screw, Shimano 11-42t cassette and 2x crankset it shifts fine! 30:42t is perfectly useable. The chain also clears big/big, though I have no plans to go there. Second lowest gear is 30:37t, so it's just one more tooth up from the 36t max recommended spec for GRX 400 derailleur. The only noticeable issues is slightly rough shifting from 37t to 42t and a weight penalty from running a bigger cassette over both the 11-34t and 11-36t cassettes. I'll keep the 11-36t cassette though since it is a bit lighter and will probably work well with a 2nd wheel set. The GoatLink is totally worth it as well, for $20-25 even though it's a small piece of alloy since it allows much lower gearing over stock configuration. I'm not sure about the GRX 600 and 810/812, but I'm really impressed at how flexible the GRX 400 derailleur has panned out.

The way I'll ride this setup is that'll most likely hold at 32t/37t for most uphill road and trail riding and only use 42t as an emergency bailout. Thanks for all the help on this thread from everyone!

Badger6

It works on the stand, make sure you do some riding close to home to evaluate before heading to the hills. Pay close attention to the adjustments of things, there may not be a lot of tolerance left even if it functions okay now. Good luck.

jonathanf2

Will do, I'll definitely break it in first to make sure nothing actually breaks! A couple things I want to note: I turned the clutch off with this setup and the derailleur does go a bit lower, which might be an issue depending on terrain. I'm not planning to hit ultra rocky trails, thick mud or bushy single track routes that might be an issue with derailleur clearance. This is mainly to help me grind up the very dry, uphill mountain fire roads around Los Angeles, which tend to be wide roads and mainly composed of hard pack dirt. Also I usually ride from my house to these fire road locations, and I prefer the 2x crank since I still have to be a semi-roadie before going into trail riding mode in the mountains.

In my opinion the 11-36t max cassette recommendation for the GRX 400 is probably more than what most people need and I'd definitely recommend that for the majority of people! Also, the Wolf Tooth GoatLink almost seems tailor made for the GRX series rear derailleurs. I had very little issue with installation and the GoatLink appears to be even more sturdy than the stock Shimano component it replaced.

Hopefully this weekend I can give my final opinion regarding this setup!

Camilo

This is exactly right. Not to mention geography. Most riders just want to ride for fun and fitness maintenance. Absolutely nothing wrong with working to get stronger, it's just not a solution that appropriate gearing is.

jonathanf2

I took the 2x 46/30 + 11-42t cassette yesterday to the mountains and the 11-42t definitely made the hard climbs easier. In fact the same trail I took I did with a single speed 34:16t (had to walk the bike on some portions), on my 2x + 11-34t (still hard), 2x + 11-36t (less hard) and 2x + 11-42t (hard, but grinded while retaining the most energy and according to my heart rate monitor I did the uphill with the lowest BPM). I also installed a new chain with a KMC X10. Big/gig also clears if you accidentally go there, but I would not ride in that setting. Shifting wasn't as smooth throughout the range, but once I hit 11-42t on the steep uphill, I definitely felt like it made a difference. In fact I think with this same setup, I can tackle the same mountain trails that are mostly reserved for MTB'ers. A couple of things to note: the clutch really needs to be set in the OFF position, if not shifting becomes very rough; since this was a bit of a shake down I had to make multiple stops to adjust the derailleur, though I came home and re-tweaked everything. Overall for the intended purpose of how I ride bike, I think I'll settle on this gearing setup as being the best for my urban roads/mountainous terrain.

My final thoughts being, if you need the low gearing I think the GRX 400 and GoatLink will get you there, but with some convenience trade offs. Before going that route though, I do think the max spec'ed 11-36t cassette for the GRX 400 should considered for the smoothest and most compliant shifting and lighter weight. I hope this helps anyone else in the future looking to go this route!

Badger6

First off, glad it has worked out for you.

To the clutch: it is adjustable. I say this, because, you may be able to adjust it such that you can leave it on and get some damping of the cage movement, but still be able to get up on the big cog. Go here, and if that doesn't get you on the adjustment instructions, go to the left side of the page and click on "Maintenance" then "Adjusting Friction." Good luck!