Jipe

One weight saving doesn't replace the other, they add upon each other.

You can both use titanium fork+rear triangle and use a lightweight saddle and a lightweight seatpost.

The problem of the Superlight is that Brompton suppressed over the time several weight savings and that the new components are heavier than the old ones (crankset, rims, derailleur and IGH control levers...).

The Kojak do not provide the same service as stronger tires, so they are not a real weight saving. You could the as well choose a single speed which save weight but also doesn't provide the same service as a 6 speed.

tcs

The only pending potential copyright issue, which would apply only to dimensional near duplicates and not to the Andrew Ritchie fold design, is in Belgium and by extension the EU.

Winfried

It's true for any market where copyright laws exist: You can't simply copy an existing product. It has to look different enough so that it can't be mistaken for the original. Hence the Dahon Curl is allowed to be sold in the West, while the Asian copycats (3Sixty, etc) of the Brompton aren't.

It'll be interesting to see how things end for Chedech.

https://www.farrer.co.uk/news-and-in...-not-over-yet/

tcs

If anyone would like to bore themselves by learning about copyright law - actual copyright law and not internet musings, and how they are different from patents and trademarks, and what each covers and does not cover - as a first primer I'd refer you to:

https://www.rightsdirect.com/interna...yright-basics/

tcs

If anyone would like to learn about actual copyright law, how copyrights are different from patents and trademarks, and what each covers and does not cover, for a first primer I'd refer you to:

https://www.rightsdirect.com/interna...yright-basics/

Winfried

In the case we're dealing with here, it looks like it's more "industrial property" than "copyright".

Regardless, you can't just copy a product, put your sticker on it, and call it "different".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_property

Winfried

Dreda

As a wise man said: We're too poor to afford cheap things.

The real question is whether copies like MIT or 6Sixty are better than the Bromptom ?

I bought a brompton (second hand) but I am looking for a bike for my sister and I am more rational for her !

The Brompton is still perfect in terms of compactness but if I find a brand that does the same thing in terms of design but better in terms of solidity with a low maintenance cost and parts easily found in France I will jump on it.

For the moment, apart from Tyrell live, I'm not satisfied with the rest, knowing that I don't like disposable bikes (which use aluminum, carbon or poor quality titanium frames that break like Brompton). the ori were really good on paper but no steel frame...

Winfried

Go ahead, order one, have it shipped to Europe (if the seller agrees and the cost makes sense), and tell us how it goes.

Jipe

The video show cheap, low quality clones.

All clones aren't cheap low quality but its difficult to know how clones are made based on pictures from eBay or Aliexpress that may even not show what you will get. And even if one buyer receives a good quality bike, nothing warranty that the next buyer will receive the same product.

3Sixty seems to now have good quality clones but they refuse to ship to Europe.

If you want a high quality folder built by a serious manufacturer, you can try to buy a Burke20 (if it is really available ?).

Winfried

Not available in Europe, and the 16" isn't available for online purchase — and if Seattle Cycles still agrees, how much does it cost to have it shipped to Europe, including duty ? Unlikely to be cheaper than buying a Brompton over here.

Dreda

Thanks for the name, I'll ask them about the import.

I'm just suggesting this idea but personally I wouldn't mind having a trusted forum member who has the skills to examine/review a bike and have several members (10 $ / pers max) to buy this type of bike to finally get an objective and detailed opinion of them.

tcs

Actually, pretty common in the bicycling world.

Winfried

And still, no Asian company has dared selling its Brompton copycats in the West.

Either there's no demand here for a cheaper Brompton, or…

thorfinn

I bought a Brompton during the Covid19 closure, needing a "folding bike" for travels. I ended up with a "Lightweight, 6 gear Flamepainted special model" of unknown numbers of produced samples, and yes they use ancient technology, but it still functions after all, and I'm searching for a new stem made from carbon? Anybody know where to find one?

desaturated

I think these Asian copycats are smart enough not to open a can of worms by shipping clones to the countries near the original maker.

Winfried

I rest my case :-)

agghk

Spot on. And high on anyone's list for "better" when it comes to folding bikes is "lighter". I've got a Bike Friday Pakit, a Fnhon Gust and had until recently stolen a Java carbon folding bike. The reason I've kept hold of my Brompton longer than all of them put together (approx 18 years) is that it folds down quickly, easily and well. It makes it easy to take inside with you - which means it isn't damaged or stolen. I've taken my Brompton into the office, restaurants, pubs and even the hospital - where it sat there unlocked but safe by the big machine while I had an MRI scan. The others are just bigger and more awkward to fold. Some of them aren't too sturdy either.

That said, it's not light. It's so heavy, I feel lop-sided if I carry it for too long. Or maybe I'm asking for the impossible. The big names in this market are Brompton and Dahon - and if there's one thing neither of them will sell you, it's a bike that is in any real sense "superlight".

Winfried

Two very useful add-on's:

• LITEPRO Eazy Wheels Extender for BROMPTON
• Rockbros Carrying Handgrip Bike Frame Shoulder Strap

agghk

Yes - thanks. Particularly the Rockbros. I live in a 5th floor "walk-up."

Winfried

Go Italian

Jipe

In the bike industry, light means expensive, superlight means super-expensive.

Due to the folding, a folding bike is heavier than a classic diamond frame bike. So making it superlight at the same weight as a classic superlight diamond frame bike will be more difficult = more expensive than a classic bike.

How many customers are ready to pay a high price for a super-expensive superlight folding bike ?

The Burke 20 folds small and is (supposed to be) very lightweight but its expensive, how many pieces sold ?

washuai

Technically Taiwan (with a Brit designer) Ori (aka Mezzo) already went there and lost with their Brompton competitor (It isn't a Brompton knockoff, though). I think it was released only in Taiwan, but they even made a titanium Ori. They're a great folder, if you can find them. You might be able to talk an LBS into working with them to get you one, depending on your relationship with your LBS.

I got an i4? Mezzo, instead of a Brompton or something else at the time. I just regret not buying the commuter bag, before Mezzo stopped being a thing and I could have imported more easily from England. I really would love to buy some of the Ori accessories \ luggage, if someone would ship to US. The nearest shop last I knew was Mexico City (and I'm in the US) for the brand. They're not easy bikes to track down. Even less with the travel restrictions and increased transport costs.


If you're serious enough about saddle time and the fold size or wheel size, then odds are you've little incentive for the compromises it takes to lower the cost. You don't want to compromise ride quality, end up with a bike that won't last long enough, etc.

The Curl isn't sufficient because of luggage. There's alternatives to the Brompton luggage system (I thought Dahon had one, but maybe I'm thinking of another brand). If that's really the deal breaker - you can use klick klax (it's handlebar, but a good substitutde) & I know at least one person on this forum got a guy to braise it to the frame of his bike, so he could use that system on his not a Brompton.

Don't like Nexus 4, 7 or 8 - Get the 4 (since I presume that's the cheapest) and upgrade as you wish.

EU availability - nothing for that.

After all the time and trouble of finding a Dahon and making it what you wish, I don't know you save over getting a Brompton (or used Brompton).

Jipe

I know bike shops in Belgium selling the Ori M10.

I had the opportunity to test it.

Its not a bad bike but it has major drawback:
- Its a bike made for Asiatic people, not for European/American people, too small for most European and Americans.
- The folding require to dismount the front wheel, not great, for me its a show stopper.
- The special stem, needed to compensate for the short frame, prevent to use any front bag.

Winfried

I had an M10. Lighter and rides better than the Brompton, but the lack of frame-mounted front bag is a show stopper for me.

What shops in Belgium carry the M10?

DEALER | ORi Life Style Folding Bikes