BarracksSi

Heck, while riding, I couldn't even tell the difference in drag whether my lights are switched on or not. If I hold up the front wheel and spin it by hand, sure, it slows down quicker, but when I'm moving, it's not anything to worry about.

CliftonGK1

Not even just mounts, but entire light setups if you want really fast/easy prep times. Yes, portability and price are a huge factor in the battery vs. dyno question.

Well, that's just the thing with a dyno... I never make the decision to leave it at home. I only use my dyno wheel, and I always leave the lights on. With the LED lifespan and minimal drag it causes, I leave them on for visibility; like motorcycles.


My Cyo, Edelux, and Supernova E3 all light up at 4mph. The Tour Divide riders I know are using dynohubs, and that's a pretty gnarly offroad race. I even know a few 24hr racers who use them. I think that's the big difference, is how long do you need the light, and at what intensity?
If I was riding 4 or 5 hours at night, offroad, and wanted things lit up like the sun I'd certainly go with a battery system. On a 400 - 600km brevet I like knowing that my dyno won't run out of power after 10 - 11 hours in the dark.

Since it's the commuting forum; it's really a toss up in my book. Battery care/feeding can be done at work with a second charger if needed. (Not so much on a 1000km brevet, though, but that's an argument for a different forum).

chico1st

I think one big thing is that most commuters dont need massive lights... I can understand all these battery problems if you are using a special system but I just use recharable AA and ride for 1hr/day at night.
To me it comes down to :
brighter light, which is bolted (which is a pro becuase im trying to cut down to 1 bike), and doesn't need recharging
vs
cost (which is double becuase I assume my bike will get stolen within a few years)

interested

The Magicshine is everything bad imaginable with a bicycle commuter light.:

1: On high it is unsuitable for commuting a lot of places (eg. among other people whether walking or driving). Lots of people gets real aggressive when rudely blinded by an retina searing light.

2: It isn't watertight, so it is likely to let you down when you need it most on a rainy night with low visibility.

3: It is know to have spontaneously caught fire when not in use.

4. The charger is a "dumb" charger, severely increasing the risk of overcharging and fire.

5. The battery pack is easily damaged (see 3 and 4)

6. Apparently its UL stamp is just a lie since it doesn't have the mandatory UL number. The factory probably lies about this certification because the Magicshine couldn't pass any sensible electrical standard.

7. Made with the usual shoddy DX quality, and apparently the manufacturer only gives 30 days warranty on it. Some re-sellers gives more than that, perhaps as much as 6 months. I own several DX lights, they are fun and cheap, but also quite unreliable. Unreliable gets boring real quick.

There may be good commuting battery lights out there, but Magicshine isn't one of them; it is unsuited for the purpose, unreliable, and a dangerous fire hazard.

--
Regards

Sirrus Rider

+1 I agree; however, as others have pointed out it's good (and very bright) for the money. I myself would rather have something from a reputable company. (The Chinese are hard to deal with when it comes to warranty.) For the same $90 you can get a Cyglolite Pace 135 https://www.performancebike.com/bikes..._20000_1500504 which has fewer of the vices that you enumerated.

I want to go to a dynohub setup. Why? I'm not much for scratch building lights and battery packs; furthermore, when you use commercial battery lights you become beholden to that company for spare parts. Over time you wind up spending the equivalent of one dyno wheel and light set. So why not cut to the chase and do it right the first time? My only gripe is no one makes a prebuilt dyno wheel with either an Araya Rm20 or an Alex r500 to match the rims I have on my bikes so the cost of upgrade is going to be higher than average.

chico1st

oh yeah using drum brakes, dynos and Internally geared you pretty much have to build your own wheels

cyccommute 

On a steep mountain bike climbs, 4 mph is right at the raggedy edge for top speed But like you said, that's a discussion for a different forum.

bmike

love my edelux for rando and around town riding. can't complain, coming from dual e6's (halogen).
light comes on @ walking pace - 2-3 mph. yes, it flickers, but at even 4mph as noted it is useable. even down a mph or two lower on steep climbs.


(stand light is on when stopped...)

i also have a ixon iq bat light that i like. it runs on 4aas and can work with a hub to charge the bats during the day.
no complaints for that light either.

cyccommute 

I'll preface this by saying that I don't own a Magicshine. I do have 2 DX flashlights.

I believe that there is no such thing as too bright a bicycle light. These don't even come close to what I use for my lighting systems. Because of our position on the road, it is extremely difficult to 'blind' drivers even with my light output. We are to the right (US) of the wheel track of cars so we cyclist are further away from drivers then other cars are. With the central part of the light beam being the brightest part of the light and that part of the beam being, presumably, pointed in the direction of travel, it's hard to come up with a scenario where that light would blind automobile drivers.

As for blinding people walking, there are a couple of issues there too. If the pedestrian is on the side of the road...walking against traffic as they are supposed to do...they are already subjected to more light than the Magicshine...or any other bicycle light...can put out. And they will be blinded by far more automobiles than bicycles...probably by a 100 to 1 ratio.

If they are walking on a MUP without their own source of light, then that is their issue, isn't it? The MU means a multi-user so they should expect to meet an occasional cyclist and, since we move faster, we are going to be using lights. Even a dim light is going to ruin their night vision for a significant period of time and would they rather be able to see a cyclists coming at them or just have them appear out of the dark? As a cyclist, I'm willing to ride as far away from them as possible (I move over to the side of the trail away from pedestrians) but I'm not going to shut my lights off to preserve their night vision...I don't like running into their dog leashes across the path

Redundant systems. That's the key. If you are going to ride at night you need some kind of back up...even with dyno systems.

All Li batteries are easily damaged whether by overcharging or over discharging or physically damage (I lost one because I dropped it on my garage floor). Spontaneously catching fire is the result of not understanding "why" and "how to" of proper battery maintenance. People think that batteries are just simple devices that you plug in and don't worry about but they are actually rather sophisticated chemical devices that you need some understanding so as to not burn down your house.

I also doubt that the batteries just burst into flames when not in use. If the lithium in the cell is in a charged form, it won't catch fire no matter what you do to it. If you've screwed up something and made the reduced the lithium to it's elemental form then, yes, it can react with water to form hydrogen and lots of heat but that takes a particularly boneheaded mistake that probably indicates you shouldn't use those batteries in the first place.

Expensive, reliable, cheap. Pick two

cyccommute 

Commuters need more light. You are competing with a thousand other light sources and you need to stand out. Someone out on a mountain bike ride or an audax actually needs less light than a commuter. They only have to see the road but they are usually in isolated situations where they don't have to worry about being squished by a bunch of motor trying to get home for dinner. That's one of the reasons that I abandoned dynos long ago...the output was just too low with halogen systems. Things are changing with LED technology and that makes dynos more attractive in terms of light output.

CliftonGK1

Use your current rim for the build. That's the way that I'm doing it for the one I'm building next; I want to keep the classic Wolber T410 Alpine matched rims for now, so I'm just buying the hub and spokes. A 3N72 hub is only $110, and I can get the spokes for $25

Juha

I just moved from Fenix L2D to a dynohub - light combo in my winter bike. I bought the Supernova light, and it's detachable, with connectors and a Cateye QR mount. Which is a really good thing, as the bike stays outside for the winter riding season. Prior to Fenix I had a bottle dynamo with a B&M halogen light I used in winter, so I knew the amount of light with dynohub would be easily enough for my commuting.

I gave up on Fenix for two main reasons: batteries gave me constant trouble, and beam shape was not ideal for my use. Do NOT expect to run any of the regulated AA/AAA powered LED lights with old NiMHs - you will get abysmally low burn times. You'll need a couple of sets of low self discharge batteries (Eneloop or similar). Or, one higher capacity well maintained set of "normal" NiMHs and one backup set of the slow discharge type. Regarding light, so far I find the Supernova shaped beam is better for commuting than Fenix. Fenix (and Magicshine etc) give a lot of light, but much of it is wasted up in the air. One thing that battery lights have going for them is strobo effect - no such thing in the Supernova light.

Based on this experience, I'm going to have to think hard about setting up my summer bike with dynohub too. I have no use for any lights in mid summer, but I do need a non-studded commuting bike with light for several months each year. Maybe I'll get a spare dynohub equipped front wheel for the summer bike...

--J

HardyWeinberg

Me either; shimano dyno-hub (not alfine) is not measurably different from the XT it displaced.

HardyWeinberg

I'm thinking about that, too.

chico1st

Those spokes probably suck, decent spokes from an LBS are around 1$/spoke or you can buy 100 for 60$.
I did a lot of looking into this recently, if you are going to bother buying a wheel at least get DT Champions

mikeybikes

Same here. Replaced a Tiagra hub with an SRAM i-Light

CliftonGK1

I build all my wheels with DT Champion 2.0 spokes. They cost 80 cents a pop at REI. 32 spokes x 80 cents = $25.00 per build.

If your LBS is charging you $1/ea for Champions, find a new shop.

Bat22

BarracksSi, your right on about running the tail light wire down by the BB.
I have an easy path following the rear brake cable to the rear rack.
Thought I would try a battery version of a rear stand light to get a cleaner look.

Arcanum

In part because of this thread, I just ordered one of these: https://aebike.com/product/handspun-f...e7232-qc30.htm

Based on the research I did, it appears to be a solid wheel. Alfine dynamo hub, double-butted spokes, solid, reflective-sided rim, damn good price, free shipping in the lower 48 states. The store, while small, seems to be reputable as well.

I originally wanted to get an Alfine dynamo (re)laced into the wheel that's coming with my bike, but it was going to cost over $200 plus tax. I want to support local stores, but it's hard when I can get a brand new, comparable wheel for $70+ less.

BarracksSi

Yeah, that kind of cost really puts me off, especially after I bought my sister in Germany a dynohub (already built into a new wheel), lights, and installation for about $180.

The thing is, it's a low-volume product here. Maybe they'd rather sell buckets of blinkies that customers keep losing, breaking, or upgrading.

BarracksSi

+1. Too may people here really don't understand how much spill and glare most high-intensity bike lights have.

When you're riding in traffic with a light like this, pay attention to how much brighter it is above bumper level than most of the car headlights. That's not just the slightly higher position of the bike light -- that's because the car lights are federally mandated to have a beam cutoff to prevent glare.

I should charge up my Dinotte sometime and take some pictures against the wall of my garage, comparing its pattern with that of my car's headlights. It might piss off some people here, though, because they're hell-bent on escalating the Bright Lighting War without thinking about the fact that there are other people on the street in the real world.

cyccommute 

The argument that bicycle lights have more glare than an automobile light is invalid. If cyclists rode next to the center line and ran much, much brighter lights (about 5 times the brightness of a Magicshine), it might have some veracity but since we don't ride there on a regular basis and our light output is lower, glare from our lights can hardly be said to be blinding to drivers. Most bicycle lights are aimed lower than the passenger side low beam light anyway. We don't need to see as far down the road as cars do because of our lower speed so glare from a spreading beam is also lower because the angle from ground to light source is steeper.

Cars aren't federally mandated to have a beam cut off. The SAE standard (the standard that the US uses) allows more upward light from headlamps than the ECE standard does. The argument for the SAE is that it allows better illumination of overhead signs than the sharper ECE cutoff does. Some cars use ECE lamps but they aren't the US standard.

BarracksSi

Say that again. Maybe if you keep telling yourself that, it'll finally be true.

BarracksSi

Okay, if you haven't figured it out yet, here's a Dinotte 200, which isn't even the brightest bike light on the market:

BarracksSi

If you're talking about roadside signs, the second HID pic -- the one from corvettehid.com -- shows the right-side flare that's allowed in countries like the US and in most of Europe with left-hand drive cars. Right-hand drive cars, like in England and Japan, have the flare going to the left.

Just FYI'ing.