mrblue

Dear Campagnolo,

I know your policy is to not give the consumer so much as the time day--you only speak with professional mechanics and authorized Campagnolo dealers. However, please, find it in your heart to read at this one email from one of your (so far) loyal consumers.

I haven't been riding road bikes for very long. Maybe five years at the most, but even before I began to consider myself a serious, avid road cyclist I knew what Campagnolo was and the mystique and history that it was steeped in. When I bought my first real road bike with Shimano components I knew that some day I would have a bike with a full Campagnolo groupset.

Eventually that day came when you released the Potenza groupset. Finally, there was something in the price range mere mortals could afford that proudly carried the lofty Campagnolo name. Needless to say I quickly bought the entire groupset and replaced my Shimano 105.

For about a year Potenza treated me well. Just as I treated it well--keeping it clean, lubricated, and being careful never to bump it, drop it, or otherwise cause it any harm. It was a fabulous groupset in regards to weight, function, and form. In short, I loved it. I was proud of it. Then one day the rear derailleur failed irreparably. One of the rivets became stuck and didn't allow the parallelogram to swing freely. I was upset but figured maybe I just had a bad apple. So I ordered a brand new one. This time it was a 2018 Potenza HO rear derailleur.

Once I had the new derailleur installed everything was once again right with the world. At least until four months later, when AGAIN the rear derailleur failed. This time the main spring, which controls the tension of the chain became irreparably dislodged inside the body of the derailleur. After numerous disassembles and reassembles it was clear the spring did not want to stay in place, within the body of the derailleur.

My question is, has the quality and workmanship of Campagnolo taken a back seat when it comes to the lower end groups? Do I just have bad luck? Or does Campagnolo no longer care about its customers who are not dishing out thousands of dollars for Super Record, Record, or Chorus?

I really want to continue liking and using Campagnolo but at this point, I am on my third Potenza rear derailleur in less than one year. At this rate, based on economics alone, the only sensible thing to do would be to sell off my Campagnolo components and switch back to Shimano.

I really hope that's not the case.

Thank you.

alcjphil

I am wondering how you purchased these components and why the original vendor did not replace the first defective derailleur under warranty, the second one as well. If you have had 2 derailleurs fail in normal use within the space of a single year you should not be out of pocket at all, much less having had to buy 2 replacements. I live quite close to the biggest Campagnolo distributor in Canada, Cycles Marinoni. They are my go to for any problems with my 3 Campagnolo equipped bikes. So far, the only problems they have helped me with were rebuilds of various Ergo shifters, which incidentally were done while I waited for about 30 minutes, except for the last time I had to wait an extra 10 minutes because someone had arrived a few minutes before me. Didn't matter, because the traffic jam that would have blocked my way home had cleared by the time my shifters had been serviced. Your problem seems to be finding local support for Campagnolo components. My take? When you ask if Campagnolo components are better or worse than Shimano you have to be realistic. Both companies make superb components. I like Campagnolo better, but you will never hear me badmouth Shimano stuff, because they make great products. Your problem seems to lie with local support and perhaps someone who can look at your setup to determine why the heck 2 very good quality derailleurs failed so quickly

BirdsBikeBinocs

IMO, you're being a bit combative. The beginning and end of your letter is a bit harsh and that's what the reader is known to remember, the beginning and the end. Have you tried calling them to see if they will work with you on your broken parts.??

Once again, to me, a company is only as good as their customer service. In other words, all companies are capable of putting out a defective part here and there. If they take care of the customer that receives the defective part then they are doing all they can to keep everyone happy.

Don't ask them if they've given up on customer service. Your the judge of that and apparently they don't much care about you or their defective parts. Walk away and get the Shimano parts and tell them that's how you solved your problems and end your letter with .... Thanks a rot. Later dudes. Goodbye.....

mrblue

The first derailleur was purchased from a UK online retailer and I am in California, USA, so there's no taking it back to the place of purchase in that case. In the second instance, the derailleur was purchased from an online retailer, via ebay, on the east coast. Again, there's no real taking it back to the place of purchase. I could have boxed up everything and mailed it back, but by the time I paid postage and sat around waiting for a reply, in either case, it was just easier to buy another derailleur.

I have tried contacting Campagnolo USA. That's why the first part of my letter might sound combative. They told me outright that they cannot help consumers. They will only speak with me if I am professional mechanic or an authorized Campagnolo dealer.

Both problems with the derailleurs had nothing to do with installation, operation, or maintenance. Both situations were cases of flawed design, or poor quality control. The first one was a rivet that became stuck and refused to allow the parallelogram to swing down from the 5th cog. The second issue was the spring inside the derailleur body which keeps tension on the chain. That spring became dislodged and didn't want to stay put after that.

I like to think that even the low-end Potenza lives up to Campagnolo's claims of being high quality and maybe I just got unlucky...twice. I don't know. Anyway, I bought a third one, this time from Velomine. If this one fails I feel pretty confident the guys at Velomine would help me out. If there's a third failure and no one will help me, I'm stripping Campagnolo off my bike and picking up the new Ultegra R8000.

CliffordK

I've acquired most of my Campy stuff used, and it just seems to keep on working (Chorus, Record, and SR). Locally there isn't much of a retail network. However, I have to agree with others... if you are buying retail (and thus expecting Campy to respond), then hopefully your retailer will help you out.

I'm not sure about Grey market from online retailers, but it doesn't hurt to contact them, or contact local Campy representatives.

mrblue

Maybe that's the key: to buy Super Record, Record, or Chorus. Maybe the new Potenza stuff is just junk?

3alarmer 

Cara Campagnolo,

So che la tua politica è quella di non dare al consumatore tanto quanto il giorno della giornata: parli solo con meccanici professionisti e rivenditori autorizzati Campagnolo. Tuttavia, per favore, trova nel tuo cuore la lettura di questa e-mail da uno dei tuoi (finora) fedeli consumatori.

Non ho guidato le bici da strada per molto tempo. Forse cinque anni al massimo, ma anche prima che iniziassi a considerarmi un ciclista serio e avido, sapevo cosa fosse Campagnolo e la mistica e la storia in cui era immersa. Quando ho comprato la mia prima vera bici da strada con componenti Shimano sapevo che un giorno avrei avuto una bici con un gruppo completo Campagnolo.

Alla fine quel giorno arrivò quando pubblicò il gruppo di Potenza. Alla fine, c'era qualcosa nella fascia di prezzo che potevano permettersi solo i mortali che portava con orgoglio il nome nobile di Campagnolo. Inutile dire che ho comprato rapidamente l'intero gruppo e sostituito il mio Shimano 105.

Per circa un anno, Potenza mi ha trattato bene. Proprio come l'ho trattato bene - mantenendolo pulito, lubrificato, e facendo attenzione a non urtarlo, lasciarlo cadere o comunque causare danni. Era un gruppo favoloso per quanto riguarda peso, funzione e forma. In breve, l'ho adorato. Ne ero orgoglioso. Poi un giorno il deragliatore posteriore ha fallito irreparabilmente. Uno dei rivetti si è bloccato e non ha permesso al parallelogramma di oscillare liberamente. Ero arrabbiato ma ho pensato che forse avevo una mela cattiva. Quindi ho ordinato uno nuovo di zecca. Questa volta era un deragliatore posteriore Potenza HO 2018.

Una volta installato il nuovo deragliatore, tutto era di nuovo a posto con il mondo. Almeno fino a quattro mesi dopo, quando ANCORA il cambio posteriore fallì. Questa volta la molla principale, che controlla la tensione della catena, è diventata irreparabilmente spostata all'interno del corpo del deragliatore. Dopo numerosi smontaggi e rimontaggi è stato chiaro che la primavera non voleva rimanere sul posto, all'interno del corpo del deragliatore.

La mia domanda è: la qualità e la lavorazione di Campagnolo è passata in secondo piano quando si parla di gruppi di fascia bassa? Ho solo sfortuna? O a Campagnolo non interessa più i suoi clienti che non spendono migliaia di dollari per Super Record, Record o Chorus?

Voglio davvero continuare a piacermi e usare Campagnolo, ma a questo punto, sono sul mio terzo deragliatore Potenza in meno di un anno. A questo ritmo, basato solo sull'economia, l'unica cosa sensata da fare sarebbe vendere i miei componenti Campagnolo e tornare a Shimano.

Spero davvero che non sia così.

Grazie.

mrblue

Awesome! Thanks. However, unfortunately I still don't think Campagnolo will care

CliffordK

I don't know.

I assume they start cutting corners, but I don't know what.

The higher up one goes along the line, the more stainless and titanium that one finds. And, of course, Carbon Fiber.

One of the differences is that I think Potenza only shifts one sprocket at a time, while the other shifters will shift multiple sprockets. But, that won't affect your derailleur.

It would be interesting to look at the actual derailleurs and to try to figure out precisely what happened.

mrblue

Both problems with the derailleurs had nothing to do with installation, operation, or maintenance. Both situations were cases of flawed design, or poor quality control. The first one was a rivet that became stuck and refused to allow the parallelogram to swing down from the 5th cog. The second issue was the spring inside the derailleur body which keeps tension on the chain. That spring became dislodged and didn't want to stay put after that.

Marcus_Ti

Everything before and after that first sentence in this post is irrelevant..


Your remedy is through the retailer in the UK. You chose to save money and dodge retail/support chains as well as taxes. This is what it gets you. Your life-choice isn't Campag's fault. Send it back to the UK for proper support and you'll get it. I had a Chorus 2015 FD fail--got it from the UK and paid $30 in postage to send it back to get replaced.

mrblue

You're totally right.

However, my complaint is with Campagnolo's quality control or engineers. Regardless of warranty or replacement costs, you'd think that a rear derailleur would last longer than 1 year for the first one and four months for the second, before they fail completely. And this is with just casual rides on the weekends--no racing, no gravel/dirt riding, and no riding in the rain or mud. Then again, who knows? My three and a half year old Honda Fit already needs a new starter. So go figure.

Like I said earlier, it could just be me and my bad luck. Maybe the third derailleur is the charm.

3alarmer 

...I think they care. Just that they don't care very much.

If you are old enough, you can remember some memorably bad Campagnolo products over the years. The two most infamous: Delta brakes and their laughably bad early attempts at indexing. And if you've ridden enough of the older Super Record and Record stuff, you've probably seen at least one old crank arm either busted in use or retired due to obvious cracking beginning at the poorly chamfered edges of the spider arms on the drive side.

But they did make some serious inroads on improving stuff back in ancient times, and the company's products were justifiably famous for being both repairable and for the repair parts continuing in production for long time periods. Everyone I knew who was trying to get performance on a budget was running Suntour derailleurs in the friction days. And Shimano indexing was so obviously superior for so long that there are still a boatload of fine 1980's Italian frames outfitted with Shimano indexed drivetrains in the used bike world, But through a combination of marketing genius and catering to the pro race crowd, Campy has managed to hang on all these years. Their old ads touting "hand matched bearings" are the stuff of fairy tales. And all things considered, I don't find the stuff with their branding on it any worse or better than the comparable products from the other makers, if you go by market niche.

But honestly speaking, I kinda stopped evolving right around the time everyone went to 9 speed rears, so I know nothing about your issue with the current product line.

I do know that there are multiple threads on teh Biekforooms claiming Campy is either the greatest stuff of all time, and everything else sucks the big one, and vice versa. So I'm grateful for the entertainment.

AnkleWork

Good luck with that, and I mean it.

CliffordK

Do you still have both failed rear derailleurs? Perhaps you could share parts between them, or figure out a bit better what failed.

I do have an Athena II rear derailleur, but not a Potenza, and the Athena is still on the shelf.

One issue that many cheaper derailleurs have is that they don't use real bushings, but rather just holes in the body through which a pivot pin is mounted. Still, assuming a pivot is what failed in yours, it should be good for quite a few miles, not 6 months to a year, unless you're putting on mega miles.

Crashed or dropped the bike? Derailleur in the spokes? End stops too tight?

It appears as if on my Athena Derailleur as well as more expensive models, the outer pivots are connected with Torx bolts, and can be removed. I can't tell if the inner pivots are also removable, but it is quite possible that the whole derailleur can be disassembled.

If you have two derailleurs with different faults, then it may be possible to combine parts from the two to make one working derailleur.

Looking at photos on the web, it appears as if the inner plate was redesigned between the Athena and Potenza.

In the Athena, there is a hole in the plate holding the end of the spring. It would seem difficult for it to pop out unless it was broken.

I have a great fear everything in the derailleur would just go SPROING if I was to disassemble, but should the spring pop out, then forcing it back in with a screwdriver is probably not the correct solution.

One problem with both Shimano as well as Campagnolo is that they sell very few internal replacement parts to the general public. Something fails, and you must buy a whole new part (thus, it isn't a bad idea to hold onto a few spare bits and pieces).

CliffordK

I don't think the Potenza has been out that long. I'm seeing notes on 2018 Potenza models being available. It is possible they've added bug fixes over time. Will 2019 models be coming out shortly?

One can blame Campagnolo as much as one wants, but this sounds to be an unfortunate issue with Grey Market parts.

Although, if you bought a full groupset, it is quite possible you saved enough to pay for a couple of rear derailleurs.

If I ever deem any product I buy as having a poor design, then I'll buy something else rather than dumping money back into the same failed item. Athena? Chorus? Record? Etc...

70sSanO

mrblue

The first derailleur, after fiddling with it for way too long, ultimately ended up in the trash. The second one, is still sitting in my garage. I'll probably hold onto it, if for no other reason than to start my collection of failed Campagnolo parts

I'm not sure which retailers are gray market. Perhaps the UK retailer is, but the east coast retailer claims to be an authorized dealer. I suppose I could reach out to them. The worst that could happen is they could just ignore me, or tell me they aren't willing to help.

Marcus_Ti

It is likely the UK seller could well be an authorized retailer. My bum FD came from Ribble. Campagnolo (unlike, say, SRAM), hasn't yet put their foot down and demanded retailers only sell to their geographic market AFAIK.

Odds are the second the ask for a proof of purchase, and you fess up UK origins...they'll tell you to send it back to the EU. Yea, it is obnoxious, but that is how it is--you'll note in the thread above I was rather salty at the time about it. Granted, I was out a bike for a long while.

ksryder

I bought my potenza components from an actual LBS and still had a hell of a time getting Campy to honor the warranty after my front shifter broke at mile 130 of a 206 mile ride and I finished the ride in the small chainring.

Eventually they finally agreed to warranty it, after a lot of back and forth with my LBS. I've never had a warranty experience that difficult, ever.

I'm just lucky my LBS was willing to go to bat, how many these days would just take "no" for an answer and tell the customer they're out of luck?

So all the "serves you right for buying gray market" commentary is malarkey, buying from an LBS didn't make Campy any more responsive in my situation.

(Also after a year and a half of using Potenza I think it's just not that durable.)

Andrew R Stewart 

This thread shows some of the challenges that the modern/on line market produces. manufactures make business decisions about many thing including how they sell/distribute product, unfortunately there are work arounds that some resellers chase to lower their costs. I believe that the OP is stuck in one of these. Grey market resellers are nothing new but today's international market (thank this interweb for much of that) make the work arounds that much more profitable. Resellers well know that the more difficult it is to return a product the less likely they will be the ones who suffer. Campy has had a less then large presence in the US market for decades, I suspect they do the math and decide what the US sales are worth WRT a distribution and support paid for by them and instead rely on other US based resellers (like QBP among others). (And these US based resellers have every right to refuse service to a product they didn't handle BTW). This has been their business model for years. In our industry this topic has been hashed over too many times for this 45 year vet of retail to count. To date the answer is still not at hand. Talk to any business who does over seas sourcing and you'll get much of the same reasons (and likely more). Every manufacturer tries to increase the perceived value of their products and gives at least lip service to the reduction of grey marketed product. Most are not successful, Shimano and SRAM included. them

While these product failures are not the usual (we will not likely hear from the many happy users and Campy is unlikely to publish their failure rates) for Campy all manufacturers do suffer from them. Both of the other big three have had their issues at times. But the difference is that the others have a far larger stake in the US market so have established a larger warranty "department" here.

So what's the take away? Banish Campy form your stable of bikes? Maybe. My take away is to consider where you purchase form. There is value in how you get stuff. The lowest cost comes with the least service most always.

Still I would have contacted a US based source of Campy just in case they felt that customer retention was more important then their loss of $ they will suffer if they honor your claim. I would also consider contacting the overseas reseller. The cost to send back the part is likely less then buying a new one outright. Unless there's more to this story then already mentioned the OP hasn't tried all the options. Andy

Andrew R Stewart 

And this story is exactly why the LBS is your friend. Andy

CliffordK

It is possible that dealing with a large European reseller is easier to deal with than a local US shop. Unfortunately the OP has tossed the part from the European reseller.

But, I can't imagine the customer service at Ribble or Wiggle or Chain Reaction spending a half a day on the horn with Campagnolo for a broken derailleur.

They likely would say to send the part back for an exchange. Then all the broken parts get dumped in a box, and either destroyed, or sent in bulk back to Campagnolo once a year or so. Hopefully Campagnolo collects some of the broken parts to try to figure out what went wrong.

Heck, some organizations seem to take exchanges, then dump the broken stuff into Scratch and Dent sales.

Also, keep in mind that the sales organization in different countries may be different than the USA. For some reason, the USA model seems to have a North American Wholesaler with a lot of power, whereas European resellers may deal factory direct, especially the big resellers that likely sell thousands of Campy and Shimano groupsets annually.

cpach

That sucks. In the future though, you really can probably just contact the seller, even if they're in the UK or across the country, to initiate a warranty replacement. Also at my shop we would process the warranty with a fee based on our time relative to our shop labor rate--unless the manufacturer compensated us for labor (like Sram will for warrantied parts). My shop does a lot of Campy but not enough for me to make a good representative sample, that said I haven't seen any derailleur failure of Potenza or other less expensive Campagnolo derailleurs.

HillRider

Wiggle, Ribble and the other major UK bike dealers are legitimate sellers, not "grey market" sources. Their lower prices are the result of their suppliers (Shimano as well as Campy) having lower wholesale prices in the UK. I agree that contacting the seller would have been my recommendation if Campagnolo USA refused to help.