philbob57

I'm just getting back into cycling after 8 years off the bike. I'm 69, 5' 7" with a relatively long torso, 235 lbs. I ride a 54cm 1972 English road frame with an Avocet Touring I saddle. I put the bike together in 1981, and the only new parts since then are tires. I stopped riding because I felt unstable and experienced perineal numbness.

In early July, I lowered the seat by 1-2 cm, which restored my sense of stability, but numbness is still a problem. A pair of bike shorts extends the time I can go without numbness, to about an hour, but I'd like to ride for longer than that without discomfort. (I received some good counsel on a new saddle, but now I wonder if I need setup advice rather than a new saddle.)

The saddle is about an inch lower than the handlebars (extra-deep stem). The stem extension is 12 cm in order to hide the front axle when I'm on the drops, though I generally ride on the hoods. (Remember - I set the bike up when I was pretty young.)

If I could stay on the wide part of the saddle, I think my ischial tuberosities would bear most of my weight, the soft perineal tissue would be elevated above the seat, and the numbness problem should be resolved. Per my lbs, I've adjusted the horizontal position of the saddle - sometimes I adjust seat height along with the horizontal adjustment, sometimes I don't.

No matter where I put the saddle horizontally, I find myself moving forward so that I'm riding on the nose (that is, the narrow part, not the tip). The seat post is a copy of the Campy post from the '70s. I can't figure out if I need more horizontal adjustability or whether something else entirely is my problem.

I'm stumped. Any ideas for setting the bike up so that I'd sit where I'm supposed to sit? Or ideas to prevent getting numb? (Sorry, I can't afford or store a decent recumbent.)

Thanks in advance.

jyl

I assume you did not have this problem before. What changed?

One possibility: You are slightly shorter and less flexible today, ride more upright, thus could use a shorter stem. Or rebuild flexibility in your hips and back - yoga?

Another possibility: You weigh more today, or are pedaling less strongly. Either would increase your pressure on the saddle. That will change as you ride more, but can't ride more until you solve the numbness.

For now, you might try a very slightly nose-high tilt of the saddle. Like 5 degrees or less.

Do you still slide to the saddle nose if you ride on the bar tops?

chaadster

I think a new seat is in order. I'm betting you're moving out to the news because it's more comfy there, especially once the tingling starts.

further, because it sounds like you're sitting pretty squarely on the saddle-- i.e. upright, no forward pelvis rotation-- you should look for a saddle with sufficient padding. Probably a little dish in the middle is good too, as opposed to flat, and I'd suggest looking at a cutout style, too.

But yeah, if you're starting out in spot and migrating forward because of crotch discomfort, that suggests a different saddle. Plus, I had some Avocet saddles back in the day-- O2 and O2 Gel, iirc-- and they were awful for me, so I'm prejudiced against them in any case!

EDIT: so I looked, and they were some steel rail version of the O2 Air and a Gelflex 30 MTB saddle (the lycra had rubber bumpers in abrasion areas). Ah, the old days! I'm getting a little nostalgic over here!

philbob57

The numbness became chronic in 2004-2005, IIRC. I weigh 20-30 lbs more than I did then. I'm a tad shorter since 2005, but a more than a tad shorter than I was in 1981. I'm certainly weaker than I used to be. I ride at 11-13 mph in a 46/23 gear, on flat roads. I used to ride at 16-18 mph in a 46/20 or 46/18 gear. (I never was fast, but I used to do at least one 50-80 mile ride a week from June -September.)

Both with the saddle slightly up-tilted and level I migrate to the nose. If I'm on the bar tops, I may actually sort of pull myself onto the nose.

The back of my seat is now 31" from the center of the bars, which is about as far away as I can get. I've ridden as close as 30", which is about as close as I can get . I could get a lot closer by switching to a 6 cm stem, but that's such a PITA to do. Besides I think I sit farther back a little longer at 31" than at 30", which boggles my mind.

Thanks for you thought-provoking questions.

Bandera

Fit can certainly change w/ age as flexibility is reduced, particularly if you've gained weight and are trying to return to cycling form. What worked in '81 may need modification today. Do you have an experienced local fitter or club coach who can work w/ you in a systematic/holistic approach to square you away?

-Bandera

philbob57

Budget is tight, and my preferred LBS doesn't do fitting. But you're right - he's helped a lot so far, so I'll stop by on my ride today.

Chaadster - I started riding seriously in A2 in 1972 - I could ride my 5 miles from home to campus faster than I could drive + find a parking space + walk to my destination. I started with a Sears 5-speed. After it was stolen, I got a low end Gitane from Mike Kolin's and Denise de la Rosa's shop, while coveting an Atala Competezione they had. I eventually bought a used Comp in DC in 1979 - stolen in 1981. Riding in and around A2 was so much fun - much better and more challenging than the flat land around Chicago's North shore!

I think I may take your post as direction to get a new seat. After all, its not my fault - a guru in A2 told me to do it..... :-)

pakossa

Are you sure the seat isn't still a bit too high? (5 mm can make all the difference in the world!) The reach may also still be too long.

darklyte27

after age 45 you start shrinking ive heard, maybe its time for a smaller frame?

FrenchFit 

I am a little shocked you are saying you are 5'7" and riding a 54cm. 60yo, I rode a metric century yesterday on a 54cm, and I'm just under 6ft. I can assure you I was not riding the nose. But I do notice on my 56 and 58cm I tend to ride the nose when I'm really working it, sort of a TT position. I think I have a tendency to pull with my upper body when I'm really stroking, and that moves me forward. If I tell myself to push... I'll slide back, until I start to creep forward again. My two cents is dropping the saddle usually results in bad things happening to your fit, knees, back, power: that's the very last compromise I would make.

longbeachgary

Do you have a photo of the bike with or without you on it?

kingsqueak

Reachimg too far out or down to the bars could be your answer too. Meaning stem height or reach.

10 Wheels

Might be time to get your prostate checked out.

71 here, rode 101 miles last night.

I ride on the saddle nose.

likebike23

I'm with kingsqueak, maybe you need a shorter stem extension. If I understand correctly, your current stem has a 120mm (12cm) extension? That seems a little long for a 5'7" guy on a 54cm bike. I am also 5'7", 43 years old, and I ride a 54cm Nashbar touring bike frame with a 90mm (9cm) stem extension. You may be creeping forward on the saddle to reach the hoods because you lost some flexibility in your hips/back.

philbob57

Yesterday I tweaked the saddle's horizontal position to the middle of its range and made the nose point up a slight amount. I rode with my sit bones in front of the widest part of the saddle but behind the nose, which was a lot more comfortable than the nose itself. I got numb, but only slightly.

I found a reference to a thread here that reminded me that rolling my hip forward could help a lot, so I'll concentrate on that today and in the future. I tried to buy a Toupe in my size, but the shop won't have one in until later next week, so I'll continue riding and, if I think of anything, tweaking.

At this point, I still have at least an inch of travel between the top bar and my groin, so the frame size seems reasonable. More solid evidence: a frame builder/ bike store owner said frame size is OK about a month ago - even though he had a number of bikes I would have considered buying.

Stem length does seem excessive, but 1) swapping stems is a real PITA, 2) a shorter stem would seem likely to put more stress on my saddle/butt, 3) time spent working on the bike is time taken away from riding at this point. Definitely on the cold weather project list if the problem persists.

I saw a note on Rivet's site (https://rivetcycleworks.com/choosing-a-rivet-saddle/) that mentions the possibility of my saddle being too wide, which makes sense to me. It could be that my fat legs push against the Avocet's sides, and that moves me forward onto the nose. Per the Specialized shop, the Toupe is considered wider as it transitions from 'platform'(?) to nose, so if that's the problem, the Toupe won't help, and vice versa. The budget will not withstand a Swallow, though....

Thanks for your comments - definitely food for thought.

Dfrost 

Have you considered a saddle with a cutaway center? Brooks Imperial models have that and can be fabulously comfortable. Or for something less expensive, Serfas saddles come in many models. I'm backing to riding me 34-year old Miyata, and found that a Selle An-Atomica leather saddle (cutout, longer rails than Brooks) lets me be very comfortable (64 yo, once 6'1" but getting shorter) on that bike with its steeper seat tube.

You've said several times that changing your stem is a PITA, and you're right, but if the proper stem will allow you to ride more, then that seems like it would be worth the trouble - IMHO at least (but I do all my own bike maintenance).

rdtompki

I rode a Selle Anatomica on our tandem for over 10K miles and over a short period of time I found I was becoming uncomfortable after three hours or so. I tried another SA on my single duplicating the tandem fit - same problem. I'm almost 68, 6', 200 lbs riding a 57cm Volagi; with my short torso and longer legs I can't get comfortable on a 60cm. I've got 2+ inches of saddle to bar drop

Following my SA issues a great saddle search ensued - various Specialized, a Performance something or other, a Terry something or other, wife's SMP, borrowed SMP and, finally, a ISM Adamo. I'm not suggesting to anyone what type of saddle to ride nor to spend the money on a saddle search - best to do everything possible first with what you have, but I did find the Adamo completely relieved all Perineum pressure. YMMV.

joeinchi

Take notice of saddle shape, as well. When I first got my Felt road bike, the design of the stock saddle in combination with my anatomy and pedaling technique pushed my bottom to the nose. Changing to a more racy saddle provided sufficient thigh "relief" to keep my bottom centered on the saddle.

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FWIW, I find my old mtb saddle to be infinitely more comfortable than any modern road bike perch. I ride it around town frequently and can go 20-25 miles without bike shorts nor ill effects. They're quite a bargain secondhand and when set properly conform nicely to a rolled hip (butt out, flat back) riding position.

click for larger view

philbob57

Glad I wasn't able to buy the Toupe - CL offered a Fizik Aliante Gamma XM MTB saddle for $30. It's a good deal narrower than the Avocet, but my bones seem to go naturally to the wider part and stay there, and pedaling seems easier than with either the Avocet or Serfas DDL-XR(?) that I tried briefly. Still tweaking position - it started out hard as a rock, but getting it close to level seems to make it easy on the bones for the short rides (30 min) I've been able to do. Other demands on my time preclude more riding until next week. 'Til then....