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Full body speedsuits?

Old 07-13-19, 12:02 AM
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smashndash
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Full body speedsuits?

Anyone know where one can find a full body speedsuit - one that covers arms and legs completely? I understand it would look odd, especially at a race where everyone tries to show off their freshly shaved pistons but I have no interest in that. My arms and legs are hairy enough that I believe the drag would be significant - at least compared to what people chase with aero helmets etc. and I really don’t feel the need to wax or shave if a lycra cover is easier and faster.

So.... any idea where I can get a full body speedsuit? One that is ideally designed for warm conditions?

I can post this to the racing forum if this is considered too race-y.

Also I have never worn anything around my knees before so if someone has a good reason why there seem to be so few racing-oriented full length pants or tights, then I’d appreciate that as well.

Last edited by smashndash; 07-13-19 at 12:09 AM.
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Old 07-13-19, 01:47 AM
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RChung
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Originally Posted by smashndash
Also I have never worn anything around my knees before so if someone has a good reason why there seem to be so few racing-oriented full length pants or tights, then I’d appreciate that as well.
That's an interesting question. Years ago when I first started testing aerodynamic drag I happened to be testing in the spring when the weather could be variable. As a side effect, I happened to do some testing wearing shorts and some wearing tights. I'd have to dig up the results but my recollection was that with the tights I was wearing back then the increase in CdA was quite large (like, around .01 m^2) compared to my shorts and low socks. However, the lower leg presents itself to the wind as if it were close to a cylinder, and cylinders have pretty high drag. Worse, the lower leg is a cyclinder that churns in the wind. So it turns out that properly designed socks of the right material can *reduce* drag for certain riders over shorts and low socks. That's why the UCI has instituted new regulations about sock height and fabric surface, which they were enforcing earlier this week at the TdF.

That was a long introduction to what I think may be a loophole in the UCI rules: tights with a cut-out behind the knee to allow the knee to articulate without binding (and also to reduce fabric wrinkles. If you start to manufacture aero tights like this, send my royalty checks to a good charity that supports youth cycling.
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Old 07-13-19, 10:18 AM
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Google "skin suit cycling".
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Old 07-13-19, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by RChung
That's an interesting question. Years ago when I first started testing aerodynamic drag I happened to be testing in the spring when the weather could be variable. As a side effect, I happened to do some testing wearing shorts and some wearing tights. I'd have to dig up the results but my recollection was that with the tights I was wearing back then the increase in CdA was quite large (like, around .01 m^2) compared to my shorts and low socks. However, the lower leg presents itself to the wind as if it were close to a cylinder, and cylinders have pretty high drag. Worse, the lower leg is a cyclinder that churns in the wind. So it turns out that properly designed socks of the right material can *reduce* drag for certain riders over shorts and low socks. That's why the UCI has instituted new regulations about sock height and fabric surface, which they were enforcing earlier this week at the TdF.

That was a long introduction to what I think may be a loophole in the UCI rules: tights with a cut-out behind the knee to allow the knee to articulate without binding (and also to reduce fabric wrinkles. If you start to manufacture aero tights like this, send my royalty checks to a good charity that supports youth cycling.
I appreciate the thoughtful response.

“with the tights I was wearing back then the increase in CdA was quite large (like, around .01 m^2) compared to my shorts and low socks”. I am a bit confused. Wouldn’t an increase in CdA imply more drag? So the tights were slower? The rest of your post seems to imply otherwise.

And yeah I imagine that some engineering would have to go into the knee area to allow for freedom while pedaling. Which is why I’m hesitant to just buy any old tights off the internet or whatever because I wouldn’t want to lose any potential aero gains to discomfort or restriction, which are far more important.

The UCI regulations don’t apply to me whatsoever and they most likely never will. So I guess we can chalk this up to yet another development being strangled by the UCI’s ideal image of a rider.

I don’t plan to produce anything like this yet - this is just one of my umpteen crazy ideas that I have no real world experience with. I also have no idea if there’s any demand for this kind of thing lol
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Old 07-13-19, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by smashndash
“with the tights I was wearing back then the increase in CdA was quite large (like, around .01 m^2) compared to my shorts and low socks”. I am a bit confused. Wouldn’t an increase in CdA imply more drag? So the tights were slower? The rest of your post seems to imply otherwise.
Yes, the tights were slower. At the time I was more interested in developing and testing the estimation procedure and less interested in aero testing specific articles of clothing, and it was cold -- so I was wearing my medium-weight tights, and the tights had higher drag than my bare legs. And that's the interesting bit: modern aero socks are made with fabric that has a slight texture (like very very shallow dimples on a golf ball) to "trip" the boundary layer as the air flows past the calf, and have lower drag than bare legs. So perhaps if my old tights had been designed for aero rather than warmth, they could've been faster. The UCI has instituted rules not only on sock height, but also the fabric texture.

Some wind tunnel tests have been done on hairy legs, and they're measurably higher drag than bare legs. So I would think the ordering would be hairy legs are roughly around as draggy as old-style medium tights, which are both more than shaved legs, which is higher than modern aero socks.


Last edited by RChung; 07-13-19 at 12:52 PM.
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Old 07-13-19, 01:18 PM
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smashndash
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Originally Posted by popeye
Google "skin suit cycling".
Uh.... I did. I saw a few full sleeve options (but surprisingly few considering the potential savings) but no racing oriented full arm full leg suits. The closest thing was the castelli thermal suit.

Originally Posted by RChung
Yes, the tights were slower. At the time I was more interested in developing and testing the estimation procedure and less interested in aero testing specific articles of clothing, and it was cold -- so I was wearing my medium-weight tights, and the tights had higher drag than my bare legs. And that's the interesting bit: modern aero socks are made with fabric that has a slight texture (like very very shallow dimples on a golf ball) to "trip" the boundary layer as the air flows past the calf, and have lower drag than bare legs. So perhaps if my old tights had been designed for aero rather than warmth, they could've been faster. The UCI has instituted rules not only on sock height, but also the fabric texture.

Some wind tunnel tests have been done on hairy legs, and they're measurably higher drag than bare legs. So I would think the ordering would be hairy legs are roughly around as draggy as old-style medium tights, which are both more than shaved legs, which is higher than modern aero socks.
OK that further adds to my reason to not just get any pants or bear the discomfort of wearing thermal clothing in summer heat (something I’d be willing to do if it made me faster). Thank you for your input. I’ll probably stick to either shaving or hairy legs for now.
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Old 07-13-19, 01:33 PM
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Which socks are fast? I realize there's a thing called Google, but there are so many BS claims being made on internet land. I don't race, but I enjoy going fast.
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Old 07-13-19, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
Which socks are fast? I realize there's a thing called Google, but there are so many BS claims being made on internet land. I don't race, but I enjoy going fast.
Yeah. I don't believe all the claims. However, people whose testing I believe claim that Nopinz and Rule 28 both make socks that are faster than bare skin. There may be others but I'm not interested in any particular product as much as I am that my intuition (and experience with those old tights) was so off. I value learning something where my expectations were wrong more than going fast.
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Old 07-13-19, 02:04 PM
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Originally Posted by RChung
However, people whose testing I believe claim that Nopinz and Rule 28 both make socks that are faster than bare skin.

I know exactly where that name originated.
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Old 07-13-19, 02:32 PM
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Sorry, the tread title reminded me of this scene from many years ago.

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Old 07-13-19, 02:48 PM
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Old 07-13-19, 03:02 PM
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What type of racing are you doing? Actual races or do you just want to go "fast" for fun? There may be rules if you are truly competing.
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Old 07-13-19, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by shelbyfv
What type of racing are you doing? Actual races or do you just want to go "fast" for fun? There may be rules if you are truly competing.
USAC races. I’m pretty sure one of my buddies has worn 3/4 tights and tall-ish socks before thus exposing only a narrow band of flesh on his calves. I’ve never heard of USAC cracking down on clothing except maybe stars and stripes or other stuff that makes you seem like someone you’re not
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Old 07-13-19, 03:45 PM
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How about a speed skating suit?
https://garneau.com/ca_en/custom/speed-skating/suits
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Old 07-13-19, 04:04 PM
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Full body skin suits are way more effective when worn with a matching cape.
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Old 07-13-19, 04:27 PM
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Pure 41-ism to look for a technical "solution" that is banned from competition and won't be produced to solve a host of "problems" that were resolved many decades ago. Want to save watts, make massage easier/less messy and be prepared for the inevitable road-rash that comes w/ cycling as a sport: Shave your legs, or Not.

edit:
Having worn skin-suits in competition I can say that a properly fitted one is only slightly less immodest than a minimal Speedo, but appropriate for certain events.
OP: Were you planning to wear such a costume on the open public roads for weekend jaunts?
If so, that would be a Bold Fashion Statement, especially on the MUP.

- Bandera

Last edited by Bandera; 07-13-19 at 06:42 PM.
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Old 07-13-19, 05:44 PM
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Old 07-13-19, 05:45 PM
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Old 07-13-19, 06:45 PM
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Feeling the wind in your hair is a pleasure denied to many cyclists since helmet use became compulsory. Enjoy your bare legs.
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Old 07-13-19, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bandera
Pure 41-ism to look for a technical "solution" that is banned from competition and won't be produced to solve a host of "problems" that were resolved many decades ago. Want to save watts, make massage easier/less messy and be prepared for the inevitable road-rash that comes w/ cycling as a sport: Shave your legs, or Not.

edit:
Having worn skin-suits in competition I can say that a properly fitted one is only slightly less immodest than a minimal Speedo, but appropriate for certain events.
OP: Were you planning to wear such a costume on the open public roads for weekend jaunts?
If so, that would be a Bold Fashion Statement, especially on the MUP.

- Bandera
Besides the plunging neckline that some speedsuits come with and the sheer fabric, I don’t see how a speedsuit would be more revealing than a standard race-fit kit. I have an Eliel speedsuit and I’ve worn it at many races. But I enjoy wearing it for solo rides as well. It’s my most comfortable kit, out of my Specialized, Rapha, Eliel and Castelli standard kits. If it didn’t have the plunging neckline, I’d 100% wear a speedsuit on the MUP. I don’t really care if people think it’s overkill.

From what I can tell, pants or trousers or full length legs are not banned in competition for USAC. If I’m wrong, please show me where in the USAC rulebook this is prohibited. I personally hate shaving my legs not just because it’s a pain, but because I’m very hairy literally everywhere else and it just looks weird. And I’m not going to shave or wax my entire body for aesthetics or tradition. I don’t get massages either. If covered legs are faster and more convenient, what’s wrong with that? I also wouldn’t have to put sunscreen on my legs anymore, which would be a big plus. Besides potential knee-interface issues and tradition, I don’t see a reason why there exist literally zero race oriented pants.
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Old 07-14-19, 04:53 AM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
Which socks are fast? I realize there's a thing called Google, but there are so many BS claims being made on internet land. I don't race, but I enjoy going fast.
DeFeet has some coming out this fall. They've been tested in a wind tunnel and are being run in the Tour right now.
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Old 07-14-19, 05:40 AM
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Castelli and Endura (and Assos and others) have long sleeve skinsuits. You'd probably need some leg sun protectors for full coverage. Normal leg warmers would be way too hot in warm weather.
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Old 07-14-19, 06:08 AM
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Originally Posted by smashndash
From what I can tell, pants or trousers or full length legs are not banned in competition for USAC. If I’m wrong, please show me where in the USAC rulebook this is prohibited.
"« When competing, all riders shall wear a jersey with sleeves and a pair of shorts, possibly in
the form of a one-piece skinsuit. By shorts it is understood that these are shorts that come
above the knee. Sleeveless jerseys shall be forbidden."

-UCI Article 1.030.26

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-sou...sn=fd56e265_58

Costume yourself as you please, in a skin-suit w/ hirsute legs if that's how you roll, no pics please.

-Bandera
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Old 07-14-19, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Bandera
"« When competing, all riders shall wear a jersey with sleeves and a pair of shorts, possibly in
the form of a one-piece skinsuit. By shorts it is understood that these are shorts that come
above the knee. Sleeveless jerseys shall be forbidden."

-UCI Article 1.030.26

https://www.uci.org/docs/default-sou...sn=fd56e265_58

Costume yourself as you please, in a skin-suit w/ hirsute legs if that's how you roll, no pics please.

-Bandera
That’s a UCI rule. Does USAC inherit all UCI rules? Even below cat P/1/2?
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Old 07-14-19, 11:47 AM
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Originally Posted by smashndash
That’s a UCI rule. Does USAC inherit all UCI rules? Even below cat P/1/2?
No. UCI rules have no bearing on USAC races with the exception of some equipment rules in very limited cases, but it pays to read the rulebook for yourself.
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