I've Got A Beef: Pedals
11-05-18, 02:47 PM
#102
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When I think about the people i ride road and MTB with, pretty much all of them have particular pedals they like to use. But most will just ride whatever tires the bike cme with unless they really disliked them, and the same with the saddles and grips.
They also don’t spend time talking about bikes on line.
11-05-18, 02:51 PM
#104
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Why do you feel the need to try to take a pot shot at someone. No one said (or implied) anything about custom bikes that don't come in a box being any better or worse than other bikes, except maybe you. I merely pointed out that his claim that all bikes come in boxes is uncorrect. I like custom bikes because I can customize the look and I have odd body proportions. I also like that I had the opportunity to support a local, independent craftsman. It's lamentable that you tried to make that into something negative. Not even going to try to articulate where I think that is rooted, but please keep it out of your comments. It serves no positive function.
11-05-18, 02:55 PM
#105
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I think the reason they put cheaper plastic pedals on most bikes is so people can walk out the door with a rideable bike.
If you're bike shop refused to put cheap plastic pedals on your bike that's very odd, every bike I've purchased from a bike shop has come with cheap usable plastic pedals, and if I'm buying a bike from them will put on any pedals I specifically ask for for no charge.
All of the other options are worse for "being able to ride it out the door".
Clipless: 5 different options for clipless, plus consider that some people prefer flats, now the bike is not rideable out the door for 90% of your customers. That sucks. Plus the cost of buying the bike goes up for something a lot of people are going to throw out.
Flats: I like large flat pedals with pins and a concave curve. Some people will hate huge flat pedals. Some people hate pedals with metal pins - I've never found it to be a problem but some people hit their shin with the pedal and the little pins dig into their shin and leave them bleeding a bit. Try to imagine a customer saying "I bought this bike but these put these terrible pedals for no reason and now my shins are bleeding!". There are other pedals with no pins but a rough edge that grips the shoe but that design hurts my feet on longer rides.
Point is...you want everyone who walks out of the shop to be able to ride right away, cheap plastic pedals are the way to go. Also the best option for people who are going to change the pedals as they don't waste money paying more for more expensive pedals that they just throw out.
If you're bike shop refused to put cheap plastic pedals on your bike that's very odd, every bike I've purchased from a bike shop has come with cheap usable plastic pedals, and if I'm buying a bike from them will put on any pedals I specifically ask for for no charge.
All of the other options are worse for "being able to ride it out the door".
Clipless: 5 different options for clipless, plus consider that some people prefer flats, now the bike is not rideable out the door for 90% of your customers. That sucks. Plus the cost of buying the bike goes up for something a lot of people are going to throw out.
Flats: I like large flat pedals with pins and a concave curve. Some people will hate huge flat pedals. Some people hate pedals with metal pins - I've never found it to be a problem but some people hit their shin with the pedal and the little pins dig into their shin and leave them bleeding a bit. Try to imagine a customer saying "I bought this bike but these put these terrible pedals for no reason and now my shins are bleeding!". There are other pedals with no pins but a rough edge that grips the shoe but that design hurts my feet on longer rides.
Point is...you want everyone who walks out of the shop to be able to ride right away, cheap plastic pedals are the way to go. Also the best option for people who are going to change the pedals as they don't waste money paying more for more expensive pedals that they just throw out.
Last edited by PaulRivers; 11-05-18 at 03:06 PM.
11-05-18, 03:23 PM
#106
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You are confusing the argument by comparing buying a complete bike with an incomplete one.
It's quite simple.
For a complete expensive bike purchase there are basically 4 things almost all experienced cyclists will personalize or change: tires, saddle, bartape and pedals. The manufacturer provides three of those things at an increased purchase price but not the fourth. The argument for this is that providing them adds to the cost so they are left off. That may be true but is a weak excuse considering the costs accrued by adding those other disposable parts.
Even the idea that you can recoup some cost by reselling the saddle and tires to the shop is weak because, likewise, you could also resell the pedals.
All I am saying is that the "it adds more cost" argument fails the sniff test when you look at the whole picture.
It's quite simple.
For a complete expensive bike purchase there are basically 4 things almost all experienced cyclists will personalize or change: tires, saddle, bartape and pedals. The manufacturer provides three of those things at an increased purchase price but not the fourth. The argument for this is that providing them adds to the cost so they are left off. That may be true but is a weak excuse considering the costs accrued by adding those other disposable parts.
Even the idea that you can recoup some cost by reselling the saddle and tires to the shop is weak because, likewise, you could also resell the pedals.
All I am saying is that the "it adds more cost" argument fails the sniff test when you look at the whole picture.
No, you've got the argument for leaving them off all wrong--the calculation the producers have made is that above a certain price point for the "complete bike", the amount of money they can knock off of the price by not including pedals nets them more buyers than including the pedals. Apparently, they believe that doesn't work with tires, saddles, and bar tape. I have to believe they are more in touch with the fine grain of their markets than we are, so I suspect if you want to argue with somebody about being logically inconsistent, you probably need to address your logical consistency argument at the consumers, not the manufacturers. The manufacturers are consistent in trying to sell the maximum number of bikes at a profitable margin--that just happens to make them differentiate in their treatment of different components.
There's also a difference between pedals and the other three components that I think may explain why the calculation works out differently--without any data for this, I think it is reasonable to guess that above whatever the magic price point is, there's a higher likelihood that someone will find the pedals completely unusable from the get-go than with the other items that could be upgraded later. If I've already paid a bunch of money for the shoes, I'm not going to want to leave the store with a bike that isn't equipped with the proper pedals, likewise, I don't have any use for the SPDs if I don't have the shoes and had no plans to get them. Seats, tires and bar tape just don't break down into neat either/or categories of purchasers in the same way.
BTW, Specialized provides crappy-sounding resin pedals with its $14,000 bikes, so if it's really important to you to get the junky things you put your feet on at the store so you can throw them out at home, buy a Specialized.
11-05-18, 06:43 PM
#107
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The only bike I ever bought, after I was out of my teens, that had pedals on it was a 1973 Peugeot PX10. It had crappy French-threaded Lyotard Pedals. One of the first changes I made when I got it home, after getting a pair of clincher "training wheels", was to get the cranks rethreaded to accept 9/16" pedals. This gave me a wide choice of pedals. I've bought 5 "good" bike since then, and none of them came with pedals. It was not a big deal!
P.S. I forgot a bike, a new 1993 Trek 820 still in the box that I bought 4-5 years ago a few years; it did come with pedals.
P.S. I forgot a bike, a new 1993 Trek 820 still in the box that I bought 4-5 years ago a few years; it did come with pedals.
Last edited by Doug64; 11-05-18 at 06:52 PM.
11-05-18, 07:06 PM
#108
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Because you need pedals, you have to figure in their cost when you buy a new bike, unless, of course, you are putting on pedals that you already own. So when a bike is selling at the LBS for, say, $2000, it really is costing you that plus the price of the pedals. I wonder why sellers put saddles on bikes? There are even more of them to choose from than pedals. And then there are stems. How many buyers change stems from the get go? When you buy a new bike you should consider all that you have to add to it or replace as part of the overall cost. A good LBS will offer you discounts and swaps, but some do not. Ultimately, if you think about it, you will know what that new bike will really cost you.
11-05-18, 07:37 PM
#109
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11-05-18, 07:55 PM
#110
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I dunno. It's always struck me odd. The "bike that didn't come in a box," but has a setback seatpost with the saddle all the way back on the rails, and a stem with quite a bit of rise. That's always raised an eyebrow. For me.
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11-05-18, 10:02 PM
#111
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Yeah, no. We have enough people crashing at stoplights with clipless pedals where all you have to do is kick out your heel slightly. Can you imagine the carnage if those riders had to reach down, loosen the strap, and wriggle their feet out like we had to do in the Good Old Days?
11-05-18, 10:06 PM
#112
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111 posts on a thread started by a guy whining about not getting pedals he didn't pay for. Amazing....
11-05-18, 10:08 PM
#113
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In a total “feed the troll” moment...
I’m pretty sure if you told the dealer you’re ready to buy the bike but won’t make a deal unless the bike comes with pedals, they’d find a way to make it work. They’re gonna slap on a $12 set of resin take-offs from the last bike they sold, or they’ll work out a deal with you on a quality set of your choice. Either way, a deal can be made.
Someone upthread said, and I’ll echo — I’ve never paid full retail for a bike. With or without pedals.
-Kedosto
I’m pretty sure if you told the dealer you’re ready to buy the bike but won’t make a deal unless the bike comes with pedals, they’d find a way to make it work. They’re gonna slap on a $12 set of resin take-offs from the last bike they sold, or they’ll work out a deal with you on a quality set of your choice. Either way, a deal can be made.
Someone upthread said, and I’ll echo — I’ve never paid full retail for a bike. With or without pedals.
-Kedosto
11-05-18, 11:32 PM
#114
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Just curious, has anyone ever bought a new bicycle at any store, be it LBS or Big Box, custom made or plebeian, or at any price, and left the establishment with the bicycle partially disassembled and still in a box?
11-06-18, 12:01 AM
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Back in the day (and possibly still?), floor mats and hub caps (for those of us who remember them) were not included in the cost of the car. Though those items aren't "needed" to drive a car, I still bet the trolls on CarForums.com got all worked up about it then. The times may change, but complaining about minutia is eternal.
...hopped on a random Honda dealership website, and yeah the floor mats are add ons.
That said, most bike shops I've been to will slap a crappy set of plastic platforms on for free if you ask. But that's kind of a waste for most of the enthusiast crowd since most people stick with one particular kind of pedal (SPD for me).
I got a good deal (better than it'd be in Japan at least) on a bike and was flying back to Japan soon, so I asked if they could leave it in the box.
11-06-18, 12:15 AM
#116
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And I've never bought a bike for full MSRP.
And the shop I work at now rarely sells any bikes at full MSRP, they must've gotten the idea from bikesdirect.
Last edited by LesterOfPuppets; 11-06-18 at 12:20 AM.
11-06-18, 12:24 AM
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Did you give those people a discount for your reduced labor cost? Why would anyone do that unless these people were not planning on riding it but rather shipping it somewhere else like another poster mentioned?
11-06-18, 05:44 AM
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I purchased 3 different bikes from 3 different bike shops and they were all fully assembled, included pedals and none were in a box.
11-06-18, 06:04 AM
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11-06-18, 07:34 AM
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Even then, I haggled free assembly out of them at the mail-order price because it was a closeout.
Edit: Bike did come with cheap plastic pedals and it was a Colnago.
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11-06-18, 07:49 AM
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Yes, tires more than pedals. Try again......
11-06-18, 08:00 AM
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I have never seen a bicycle still in the box on display on the sales floor of any brick and mortar retail establishment, or go out the door with a customer ever.
11-06-18, 08:07 AM
#124
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Might or might not be true. I'm likely to be pre-loaded with the pedals and saddle of my choice just waiting to be installed. Bar tape...yup, I might change that promptly. Tires? Well, I might ride on them for 10 miles to confirm that I already hate them and that they have to go to the tire bin.
11-06-18, 08:08 AM
#125
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OTOH, all my recent bike purchases have been a la’carte. I choose every single component so I know what I am getting.
