Women's cycling race forced to pause after lead rider catches men's race
03-07-19, 11:57 AM
#126
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One can't speculate on the alternative outcome. Nicole Hanselmann got an early lead. At some point she would have seen the men's entourage ahead and decided to close the gap. There were some long straight stretches where they may have been visible on the horizon, even a few miles ahead.
My guess is that she would have continued to pound the course another 10 or 15 miles until MP37 or so, the bottom of the descent after the men/women separated.
At that point, the race might depend a bit on how much of a gap had formed.
There were a couple of chasers ahead of the peloton. They quickly fell back into the peloton, but that may have been a team decision rather than a personal choice. If enough of a gap had opened up, a 3-person breakaway could have been supportable.
Of course, there was a lot of road and a lot of hills ahead.
My guess is that she would have continued to pound the course another 10 or 15 miles until MP37 or so, the bottom of the descent after the men/women separated.
At that point, the race might depend a bit on how much of a gap had formed.
There were a couple of chasers ahead of the peloton. They quickly fell back into the peloton, but that may have been a team decision rather than a personal choice. If enough of a gap had opened up, a 3-person breakaway could have been supportable.
Of course, there was a lot of road and a lot of hills ahead.
03-07-19, 12:11 PM
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03-07-19, 12:22 PM
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She got 74th place out of 141 starters in a 123km professional bike race with many of the best female professional cyclists in the world.
Omloop Het Nieuwsblad Elite Women 2019: Results | Cyclingnews.com
Omloop Het Nieuwsblad Elite Women 2019: Results | Cyclingnews.com
Nothing about this situation seems odd other than it is news. Chantal should be getting the attention, but we'd rather give it to someone who finished 12 min back. Anyone can be a jack rabbit - esp before the cobbles.
It was clearly frustrating for her. 140 riders I can see a great argument to move the groups farther apart, or have their own day, but the race venues benefit having multiple events per day in spectators and cost. Typically there are rolling enclosures on these races, so they can have big gaps. In this case, maybe there was no rolling enclosure.
I'm looking at the finishing times. 12 min back, and looks like the cut at 91st place for the finishers was 15:49.
The report says she was 1 min ahead when the woman's field was neutralized - before the cobbles, and pretty early into the race. For someone to be 1 min ahead that early in a 76 mile race is not so unusual. For the group going 120miles (I assume this was the men's pro 200K group) going slow their first quarter race before the cobbles is also not unusual. What is odd is this hadn't happened before with a 10 min gap. But as I mentioned, before, predicting which group will be faster is often tough.
03-07-19, 12:27 PM
#129
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03-07-19, 12:30 PM
#130
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I'm pretty sure my kid did, or was going to do that race. I've been at half a dozen in the area and watched him and others race, although never the women.
Nothing about this situation seems odd other than it is news. Chantal should be getting the attention, but we'd rather give it to someone who finished 12 min back. Anyone can be a jack rabbit - esp before the cobbles.
It was clearly frustrating for her. 140 riders I can see a great argument to move the groups farther apart, or have their own day, but the race venues benefit having multiple events per day in spectators and cost. Typically there are rolling enclosures on these races, so they can have big gaps. In this case, maybe there was no rolling enclosure.
I'm looking at the finishing times. 12 min back, and looks like the cut at 91st place for the finishers was 15:49.
The report says she was 1 min ahead when the woman's field was neutralized - before the cobbles, and pretty early into the race. For someone to be 1 min ahead that early in a 76 mile race is not so unusual. For the group going 120miles (I assume this was the men's pro 200K group) going slow their first quarter race before the cobbles is also not unusual. What is odd is this hadn't happened before with a 10 min gap. But as I mentioned, before, predicting which group will be faster is often tough.
Nothing about this situation seems odd other than it is news. Chantal should be getting the attention, but we'd rather give it to someone who finished 12 min back. Anyone can be a jack rabbit - esp before the cobbles.
It was clearly frustrating for her. 140 riders I can see a great argument to move the groups farther apart, or have their own day, but the race venues benefit having multiple events per day in spectators and cost. Typically there are rolling enclosures on these races, so they can have big gaps. In this case, maybe there was no rolling enclosure.
I'm looking at the finishing times. 12 min back, and looks like the cut at 91st place for the finishers was 15:49.
The report says she was 1 min ahead when the woman's field was neutralized - before the cobbles, and pretty early into the race. For someone to be 1 min ahead that early in a 76 mile race is not so unusual. For the group going 120miles (I assume this was the men's pro 200K group) going slow their first quarter race before the cobbles is also not unusual. What is odd is this hadn't happened before with a 10 min gap. But as I mentioned, before, predicting which group will be faster is often tough.
Too bad you never watched the women.
03-07-19, 12:43 PM
#131
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While it is always unfortunate to neutralize a race, it is often done. Her results were not unlike before.
She is an average, maybe a wee under average woman's pro rider. IMO she made a publicity wise, cycling not-so-much wise move of being a rabbit.
As more of a cycling fan than social media fan, I don't like that the cycling performances for the 73 in front of her are getting so little attention.
However, it is clear she has brought them more attention than they would have otherwise received.
Congratulations again to Chantal Blaak, ... and 5th place 24 year old USA Alexis on her 1st race this year.
But - yea, I would not have noticed otherwise.
I have no reason to think here results would have been any different if women were the only ones on the road.
74/~140 - this time
This year (barely started, I know):
61/~136
80/~136
85/~136
74/~170
59/~114
Last year similar starting with DNFs
Finished 15/~30 in the ITT
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/nicole-hanselmann
She is an average, maybe a wee under average woman's pro rider. IMO she made a publicity wise, cycling not-so-much wise move of being a rabbit.
As more of a cycling fan than social media fan, I don't like that the cycling performances for the 73 in front of her are getting so little attention.
However, it is clear she has brought them more attention than they would have otherwise received.
Congratulations again to Chantal Blaak, ... and 5th place 24 year old USA Alexis on her 1st race this year.
But - yea, I would not have noticed otherwise.
I have no reason to think here results would have been any different if women were the only ones on the road.
74/~140 - this time
This year (barely started, I know):
61/~136
80/~136
85/~136
74/~170
59/~114
Last year similar starting with DNFs
Finished 15/~30 in the ITT
https://www.procyclingstats.com/rider/nicole-hanselmann
03-07-19, 12:53 PM
#133
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This has been whipped up into some sort of controversy when in fact:
1. Neutralization of a race happens all the time for a variety of reasons.
2. A very strange / uncommon set of circumstances had to be present for this to occur: the women's race followed a separate course later in the race so this could only have happened early, the men's race was completely dawdling in the early stages (~30kph) while the women's break was extremely aggressive. It was sort of a perfect storm / bad luck scenario.
3. Given the circumstances, neutralizing the women's race was the best option. Allowing the women's break to mingle with the men's race would have caused havoc with logistics and impacted rider safety. This is a race on public roads with precise road closings designed to limit impact to drivers. That all goes to hell when you have racers / team cars / commissaire cars / motos mixing.
4. The race organizers are to be applauded both for sponsoring a world-class women's race as well as trying to increase the profile of the women's race by having it follow closely behind the men's race and benefit from the crowds. Instead, they're getting sledged in the press as "anti-women" somehow, often by journalists that clearly know nothing about cycling. No good deed goes unpunished.
5. There's a 0% probability that the women's break would have stayed away anyway. It was a standard morning TV-time breakaway, nothing more.
The only criticism I have for the race organizers is that the commissaires should have contacted the men's team cars and told them to tell their riders to get a move on. However, that's an unusual call to make.
1. Neutralization of a race happens all the time for a variety of reasons.
2. A very strange / uncommon set of circumstances had to be present for this to occur: the women's race followed a separate course later in the race so this could only have happened early, the men's race was completely dawdling in the early stages (~30kph) while the women's break was extremely aggressive. It was sort of a perfect storm / bad luck scenario.
3. Given the circumstances, neutralizing the women's race was the best option. Allowing the women's break to mingle with the men's race would have caused havoc with logistics and impacted rider safety. This is a race on public roads with precise road closings designed to limit impact to drivers. That all goes to hell when you have racers / team cars / commissaire cars / motos mixing.
4. The race organizers are to be applauded both for sponsoring a world-class women's race as well as trying to increase the profile of the women's race by having it follow closely behind the men's race and benefit from the crowds. Instead, they're getting sledged in the press as "anti-women" somehow, often by journalists that clearly know nothing about cycling. No good deed goes unpunished.
5. There's a 0% probability that the women's break would have stayed away anyway. It was a standard morning TV-time breakaway, nothing more.
The only criticism I have for the race organizers is that the commissaires should have contacted the men's team cars and told them to tell their riders to get a move on. However, that's an unusual call to make.
03-07-19, 12:54 PM
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I traveled to watch women's racing at the Coors Classic. My wife was a racer and I also saw her friends - Olympians.
Women's road racing is as different from men's road racing as CX is from road racing. It is totally different, and also depends on region. Part of that is the length.
Kid raced juniors for USA as his LUX team, and guested. Some ~40ish Euro races half UCI. They would often get their own day and there were no other fields - women or pros. Thousands of spectators. I got to know the culture, parents, spectators and vibe. Junior racing is huge in Europe. There are scouts looking for talent and the kids are wild. The races are short and very fast. They will often ride faster than the pros. That is not to say they are faster, they just ride faster. Again, the pros are about winning.
03-07-19, 12:57 PM
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Other than relaying the information that the women are coming that is about all you can do. There is no "or else" here.
03-07-19, 01:00 PM
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I watch women racing a lot. Maybe 50 or so. I did not watch to women in Europe.
I traveled to watch women's racing at the Coors Classic. My wife was a racer and I also saw her friends - Olympians.
Women's road racing is as different from men's road racing as CX is from road racing. It is totally different, and also depends on region. Part of that is the length.
Kid raced juniors for USA as his LUX team, and guested. Some ~40ish Euro races half UCI. They would often get their own day and there were no other fields - women or pros. Thousands of spectators. I got to know the culture, parents, spectators and vibe. Junior racing is huge in Europe. There are scouts looking for talent and the kids are wild. The races are short and very fast. They will often ride faster than the pros. That is not to say they are faster, they just ride faster. Again, the pros are about winning.
I traveled to watch women's racing at the Coors Classic. My wife was a racer and I also saw her friends - Olympians.
Women's road racing is as different from men's road racing as CX is from road racing. It is totally different, and also depends on region. Part of that is the length.
Kid raced juniors for USA as his LUX team, and guested. Some ~40ish Euro races half UCI. They would often get their own day and there were no other fields - women or pros. Thousands of spectators. I got to know the culture, parents, spectators and vibe. Junior racing is huge in Europe. There are scouts looking for talent and the kids are wild. The races are short and very fast. They will often ride faster than the pros. That is not to say they are faster, they just ride faster. Again, the pros are about winning.
Yeah, lots of support for juniors racing there... more support for women's racing in Europe than in USA too. All I hear is about what a great environment it is for bike race. Again, awesome that you (and your son) got to experience some of that.
03-07-19, 01:01 PM
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It likely helped PR a lot when the women actually caught up with the men, even just for a moment.
03-07-19, 02:02 PM
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I've heard the same complaints about basketball.
Men's (collegiate) basketball is all about strategy. Essentially playing "keep-away", and running down the clock.
Women's (collegiate) basketball is running the ball down the court and putting it in the hoop. I think they may also have a shot clock that keeps them moving.
Men's (collegiate) basketball is all about strategy. Essentially playing "keep-away", and running down the clock.
Women's (collegiate) basketball is running the ball down the court and putting it in the hoop. I think they may also have a shot clock that keeps them moving.
03-07-19, 02:07 PM
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True...
Threaten the men with disqualification if they get passed (or any of the women got within 50 yards/meters of them), and one might have seen quite a horse-race.
My guess is the gap would have naturally widened on the next hill after the neutralization point anyway, but could have closed once again on the plateau above.
The support vehicles could easily have dropped 5 minutes back for the next 10 miles, and then caught up later. Flat tire or crash ==> Neutralization?
Perhaps get some TV crews mixed into the Women's race.
Threaten the men with disqualification if they get passed (or any of the women got within 50 yards/meters of them), and one might have seen quite a horse-race.
My guess is the gap would have naturally widened on the next hill after the neutralization point anyway, but could have closed once again on the plateau above.
The support vehicles could easily have dropped 5 minutes back for the next 10 miles, and then caught up later. Flat tire or crash ==> Neutralization?
Perhaps get some TV crews mixed into the Women's race.
03-07-19, 03:05 PM
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The women's peloton was only 90 seconds back. Having the support vehicles drop back would have meant having roughly 150 cyclists navigate their way past a train of cars. At the very least, it would have created a situation where they would have to only use part of the road (with the cars pulled over), but I'd be surprised if it didn't lead to people trying to move up by weaving in and out of the parked traffic. It would have been a bad situation.
But, moving the support vehicles out of the way would only gain a minute or so. That may well have been enough as terrain was changing (and perhaps a stern reminder that racers were behind the men).
03-07-19, 03:20 PM
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Logistically, I think this would have been pretty difficult to do given the short amount of time they had to organize such a move. One could also argue it is more disruptive overall than pausing the women's race but preserving the time gaps.
03-07-19, 03:37 PM
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No need to assume, you can just watch the race.
https://www.facebook.com/ProximusSpo...1060175811537/
EDIT: There is a link there, but it doesn't appear on my screen. Weird.
https://www.facebook.com/ProximusSpo...1060175811537/
EDIT: There is a link there, but it doesn't appear on my screen. Weird.
Watching some of it now., My computer and Facebook really don't like the file size, so it is coming down slowly.
Wow, Nicole Hanselmann is really moving out with a great tuck... It is quite a difference from watching the leader and those in the back of the Peloton.
I could imagine the benefits of cornering solo rather than cornering in the middle of a crowd of 100 bikes. Perhaps a few other benefits of being out front.
However, that would be a long ride to go solo. I'm surprised Nicole didn't bring any of her teammates on the breakaway. 2 or 3 of them and they might have had a chance.
03-07-19, 03:37 PM
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Edit: see my post (page 4, #84 ) for an easy, simple and rather fun solution in the future.
Ben
Last edited by 79pmooney; 03-07-19 at 03:41 PM.
03-07-19, 03:47 PM
#144
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Yes.
Solo breaks from the start of the race never win. Her chance of winning from that position was pegged at 0%.
EDIT: Referring to WT level racing here. In the amateurs all kinds of stuff happens.
EDIT: Referring to WT level racing here. In the amateurs all kinds of stuff happens.
03-07-19, 04:29 PM
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_d...ful_breakaways
The longest successful post-war breakaway [in the Tour de France] by a single rider was by Albert Bourlon in the 1947 Tour de France. In the stage Carcassone-Luchon, he stayed away for 253 kilometres (157 mi).[7] It was one of seven breakaways longer than 200 km, the last being Thierry Marie's 234 km escape in 1991.[7] Bourlon finished 16 m 30s ahead. This is one of the biggest time gaps but not the greatest. That record belongs to José-Luis Viejo, who beat the peloton by 22 mins 50 secs in the 1976 stage Montgenèvre-Manosque.[7] He was the fourth and most recent rider to win a stage by more than 20 minutes.
03-07-19, 04:34 PM
#146
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Of course.
Although I would say that it is more likely to occur in a stage race, where the leaders are more worried about time gaps among them than who wins the stage.
Although I would say that it is more likely to occur in a stage race, where the leaders are more worried about time gaps among them than who wins the stage.
03-07-19, 07:27 PM
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I'm just curious. Did anyone watch ALL the race video?
Race Video
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https://www.facebook.com/ProximusSports/videos/381060175811537/" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/ProximusSports/videos/381060175811537/
" data-width="500" data-show-text="true" data-lazy="true">
https://www.facebook.com/ProximusSports/videos/381060175811537/" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/ProximusSports/videos/381060175811537/ " class="fb-xfbml-parse-ignore">Facebook Post
