KeithA

For Jamis, you might try here. It's where I bought my Coda Elite. I don't think I saw one in that size available now, but you might call the number and see what they can do for you...perhaps with an '05.

late

Hi,
getting a high quality steel frame is a terrific idea. Going to a cheaper frame just to get Ultegra is the exact opposite of a terrific idea. There have been many good suggestions. I ride a Gunnar Sport, and Gunnar makes a performance bike called the Roadie. The Sport is a recreational road bike with a really sweet ride.

https://www.gunnarbikes.com/roadie.php

Get a good frame, don't worry about the components.

markwebb

The Viner so far looks like the best - a really good steel lugged frame. The steel is good Dedacciai Com 12.5 or Zero Tre (sp?) steel and used by some custom builders like Sachs (per some othe threads and posts). And it will be well under $2K complete. Sounds like the best of all choices.

I don't think the Viner is a "cheap" frame - looks like a quality build.

Anybody have any input on the steel or these frames?

jemoryl

Funny you should mention the Viper, as I just bought a NOS (ca. 2000) Viper frame from a guy in the UK who has a stock of NOS Vipers and Lotos. I belive the Viper was the top of the line steel frame when Basso made only steel; now it appears to be the only steel frame that they make and I believe they are not brought into the US by the official importer.

I was looking for a light steel frame to go with my aluminum/carbon Basso Reef and stumbled upon these NOS frames. Basso likes to use mixed/custom tubesets and I am told that the one I have is made from oversized 18MCDV6 - H.T. tubing, which would make it Dedacciai Zero or now SAT 14.5. The workmanship is beautiful, with lovely silver filet brazing except for a stiff looking lugged bottom bracket. I may post some pictures when I get a chance.

If the original poster is interested in one of these the seller might have something in his size; he can send me a message and I will send the details. He is selling the Vipers for 299 pounds and the Lotos (slightly more robust, but also a nice frame) for 249 plus 60 pounds for shipping (reached me in the US in 3 days).

jemoryl

There have been a few low milage Burley roadbikes, including a couple Fox Hollows, that have recently gone for under $1k on eBay.....I was tempted.

BTW, the Viner is pretty good value for money, even though I don't care for the esthetics. GVH has a great reputation and the kits are well priced.

Grasschopper

Huh? Colorado cyclist sells Ultegra 10s build kits (everything other than the frame) for $1159. Brings you in just under the $2k you are looking at. https://www.coloradocyclist.com/commo...293&TextMode=0

markwebb

Thanks for advice, but Gios frame with fork is just under $1K, and with an $1159 kit plus shipping that's several $$ hundred over $2K and about $1K more than the Viner.

The Mercian idea sounds interesting. I may look into it.

aadhils

How 'bout this:



...

late

The Pacer is a classic design. I am convinced if they used different photos they'd sell ten times what they sell now. I'd love to try one.

emilram

With all due respect,in order to reduce weight off that salsa of yours to 19lbs.you will have to equip
that frame with the lightest components available, in order to compensate for that extra 2 pounds off of
your 2kilo frame .
By lightest components I mean- carbon and the like +the lightest wheelset on the market.

Sigurdd50

The Surly folks have a VERY odd approach to marketing. I guess there are lots of guys wearing dresses that ride Surly bikes

USAZorro

Too many people want to ride a bike with the seat post 2 feet above the top tube. That's the latest fad. Ridiculous!

oilman_15106

Great psots & discussion. Anyone riding an 04 Jamis Eclipse? Been looking at one at my LBS. The bike is lighter than my alum. Masi. Really sweet looking bike. Any comments.

natethaskate

Haven't ridden the Jamis Eclipse, but I really like the Coda & Quest. Surlys are also very good. Friend just got a Mercian and loves it. I prefer steel/carbon combos for max comfort. All steel is definitely more durable though...

markwebb

The Mercian idea was a great one. But it's a minimum of a three month process to order and no one local can do the 'fitting'. Plus, I have heard of several crappy Mercian frames coming in from UK that were much less than the Mercian standard (there were some threads on Bike Forums to that affect).

So - I went with the Viner from GVH in Oregon https://www.gvhbikes.com/special_frames.html
and placed my order today. I did change out the headset to Campy Record and added Mavic Open Pros with Ultegra hubs, Cont tires, a triple crankset, and a DA rear derailleur. It came to about $1,500 with shipping - well within my budget. I think that's a good price for a well-made Italian lugged lightweight steel frame with mostly high-end components.

I should have it in about 10 days.

BTW - it does trouble me that the market is so restrictive on being able to order on-line. Someone else said that's a good idea because you have to get a properly fit bike and the LBS will take the time and blah blah blah. Based on my experiences, the LBS does a poor job of 'fitting'. They see you are 6' feet tall and say "we'll you need a 57 or 59 try one and see which one ya wanna buy". I think fitting is a myth - besides on production bikes there is not much to 'fitting' them. And if you're smart you'll visit several bike stores for the best price anyway so why not just buy on-line? I think the bicycle companies are behind the times and need to open up sales to the on-line market. The LBS would then have to be more competitive in pricing their bikes and more responsive to customer needs - now they sorta have a monopoly because they know you can't buy - as an example - a Lemond anywhere but in a LBS and if they are the only one in town then you gotta pay their price.

paednoch

THE BEST ride I have ever own I just bought..burley fox hollow. Steel ultegra

d2create

My Jamis Eclipse frame is an 03 that I got brand new off ebay last year, killer cheap.
It replaced the Specialized Allez Comp frame that I cracked in half. (tip: never drive into your garage with your expensive road bike attached to the roof of your car)
It kicks ass! I love it compared to the Allez. I don't know if it's the carbon stays, but the ride is much sweeter. Not to mention it's a real nice looking frame.

BurleyOne

The Dealer Locator worked for me.

And, I would also strongly recommend you look at Burley - the Fox Hollow or Wolf Creek. https://www.burley.com/products/road-...Wolf+Creek&i=5

gravityslip

hey markwebb, keep us updated on your purchase. Looks like a hell of a deal.

Make sure to take plenty of pics We all know how a post about a bike without pics is received around here. heh

markwebb

I think it's a good deal - not an awesome kick-ass hellofadeal but good enough to motivate me to jump. An all Ultegra new steel lugged classic Italian bike with a DA rear der and Campy record headset for $1,500 is a good deal.

The guys at GVH in Oregon were super to deal with - we had three conversations with me taking several measurements of my existing bike so they could customize stem length and bar height and such........this was wayyyyyyyy more than my LBS shop did for me last year when I bought an alum lemond or what another LBS did (or more exactly did not do) to custom fit my sis and bro-in-law for their new Lemonds this year. GVH spent a lot of time with me on very exacting measurements like center of crank to top of seat, hub center to top of handlebar and to top of stem, handle bar size, stem length, end of stem to tip of seat, etc. etc. etc. I think that's more than 90% of what LBS's do in real life when selling a new bike. So - with on-line retailers like GVH what does the LBS really offer as an advantage for buying a new bike if indeed the LBS actually provides less fitting service when purchasing a new bike?

Wurm

Sure, let's have a race to the bottom! That way, everyone gets their stuff for 0.5% over dealer cost, and nobody makes enough money to support themselves and their families.

Then, you don't have bike shops anymore, just repair stations. Don't pay them much either, because we all know they charge pirate prices too. Then soon, everybody will have to learn how to repair their own bikes from top to bottom whether they like it or not.

After that, very few people will buy a bike.

Sounds like a good "free trade" plan to me!

markwebb

I think that the manufacturers restricting the on-line selling thwarts free trade. I think in this regard they are behind the times and dinosaurs. Heck - the last new car I bought I did it on-line!!! The auto industry has adopted the 'net so why not the bike industry? Why is it so special and sacred that you MUST buy via a LBS. Like I said - 90% of LBS's don't provide any service for your new purchase other than a free tune-up at 6 months (a $25 value at best). No custom fitting and nothing special to earn such a premium and monopoly. What would be wrong with a large volume of sales via the 'net? What would be wrong with local retailers shifting their revenue stream towards repairs and service? What is wrong with that??? If it's better for me the consumer what's wrong - should'nt we let the market evolve?

I think your prediction or fictional scenario that the LBS would go completly away and not even do repairs is kinda silly - 95% of bike riders need shops to do most of the work and that biz will always be there. When I want a repair done right I trust my LBS mechanic to do the work - I just want more choices in bicycle sales than they now offer and I want more competitive pricing when purchasing a bike. More competition and more choices - sounds good to me.

markwebb

And......why can't you envision that little 'ole LBS going digital and entering the 'net sales fray and becoming a huge success in on-line bike sales???? Nothing would preclude them from becoming a mega-retailer on-line.

Think out of the box !!!!

Surferbruce

i think shops are nuts to try to turn a blind eye to net business. i mean i can buy a pair of tires off ebay for less than HALF what they cost at my lbs. as much as i love em i won't pay double.
if they're gonna stick thier heads in the sand they better come up with a better definition of service. when i wanted a particular model bike last year of course all the dealers web sites had the same blurb about the manufacturer prefering them not to sell online, but of course the lbs didn't have the model in stock to try out. "we can special order it!" was the stock reply, of course i had to commit first and downpay. blah! of course a shop can't stock every size of every model but they need to work out a way to get a bike without the customer having to put the money upfront first. serious flaw in the system and the customer is the one who loses.
as more net companies build a rep, like airborne and maverick for instance, shops will be forced to sink or swim.

KeithA

Yep, a small shop with absolutely stunning bikes near me sells via the internet. I personally don't think brick and mortar shops are on their way out, but I do feel the most successful ones will adapt to the changing times. By the way, no one is asking for 1/2 a percent over msrp, or at least not to my knowledge. People do and forever will want a bargain though.