pctjeff23

I need some help with this. I'm looking to buy a folding road bike and have my eye set on the Pacific Reach SL: very lightweight, folds to under 62 cubic inches, quality of ride is comparable to a true racing road bike. It is a little out of my price range (was hoping to spend $2,000-2,500 tops). There is a bike shop in NYC (Bfold) who I visited and they sell it for $2,850.00. I came across an online distributor (www.andibicycles.com) who has it listed at $2,205.00. I am trying to determine whether or not this is a scam. A few things seemed out about this to me:

1) The site has detailed info for each of their listed bikes with full specs, but not for the Reach SL. When you click on the picture of the bike, it gives you an error message: "404 not found" which is dated November 2004. I e-mailed their help desk asking about this, as well as asking them to confirm the $2,205 price, and give me a shipping estimate to NY. They answered 2 of my 3 questions, but ignored the part about why there are no specs. available on their site for the bike.

2) The person who e-mailed me back had questionable grammar. This is the repsonse I received:
"Hello first name last name

I am sorry for late response since theres problem on our email server
Yes ,that the bike is the exact same model as the Superlight listed on the
Pacific website and our price is $2,250.00.

shipping costs to ship to Brewster, NY :US$125

Please let me know soon

Thank You
Andi Bicycles"

3) The price is about 30% lower than Bfold. Seems to good to be true.
4) There is no phone number or location of operation listed on their website. Only an e-mail address.
5) I have been unable to verify that they are actually an authorized Pacific distributor. This does not necessarily mean that they are not, but I e-mailed Pacific last Friday and have not received a response yet. I'm not who else I can confirm this with.

However, if you look at the site it is extremely thorough and detailed with full specs on about 100 bikes (although not the Reach SL oddly), warranties/guarantees of product/sale, FAQ, testimonials, detailed terms and conditions, etc.

Give me some feedback on this. Any opinions/help is appreciated.

Jeff

Dynocoaster 

Looks like they are in Indonesia, read this
https://www.andibicycles.com/index.ph...onditions.html

smallwheeler

hmm yes. these prices look just a little bit too good to be true..
https://andibicycles.com/index.php/Br...-prodUcts.html

i believe we have some indonesian bothers and sisters here who may be able to confirm..

also,

https://www.worldlawdirect.com/forum/...indonesia.html

HGR3inOK

When it seems too good to be true, it usually isn't (true). Are you willing to risk $2,375? Bfold is well-known and respected for the quality of their products and services. IMHO, you should consider the less-expensive model Pacific Reach from bfold. I expect bfold can provide you with the warranty terms for Pacific bikes sold in the USA. And I'll bet they can tell you some of the risks involved in purchasing Pacific bikes from an entity that is not an authorized dealer for the purchaser's region/country.

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

ADDENDUM: The andibycles.com website says "©2002-2012" indicating that it has been around for several years. However, according to online information, andibicycle.com was first registered as a domain name on November 14, 2012. Doesn't pass the smell test.

champignon

Hate to cast aspersions on an entire country, however this has a somewhat familiar ring to it. Within the last year or so someone set up an Indonesian based online site selling (mostly Italian branded) commercial and semi-commercial espresso making equipment at too-good-to-be-true prices, which got a lot of attention on coffee hobby boards. When no one on any of these boards could report having had a successful transaction with said site, their cover was apparently blown.

I'm sure there are a lot of folding bikes sold in Indonesia, however I doubt that many of them are sold through online commerce. Why this sort of merchandise, generally not made in that country, would be marketed out of that country to westerners is anyone's guess, but my guess is that the risk is far too high to risk a high dollar purchase with such a site.

smallwheeler

the onus is on the buyer of course not to fall for it. these kinds of scam crimes rely on the greed of the buyer.

NeoteriX

Wow, the Reach SL is one hot looking bike. Can I ask what you plan on using it for?

jerrysimon

Here is a genuine shop/price.

https://www.fudgescyclestore.com/index.php?c=5944

I have seen these go on ebay for as little as £500 new/second hand.

Jerry

burnfatburn

hi. my name is Hari, I am from indonesia. this is my firs post

I have asked my fellow cyclist in indonesia (I am stay in japan now), this is a doubtful seller because
1. it has similar addres to another store according to this site, this is street directories
https://www.namajalan.com/veteran_/ba...nfobisnis.html

you see the address, jln veteran 40 is belong to some store named `all merk`

2.too many item,too good too be true, may be this store is not `original` seller, but some broker,or resaler of resale of resaler

brakemeister

Bfold are good people..... yes they asking 500 dlr more for the same bike which might or might not be vapourware. Its almost 3000 dlr for this bike .... There are good bikes out there for 750 dlr.... You want to spend 4 times plus for a bike.....
At this time Bfold will help you with any warranty claims down the road .... the other place wont. B fold will inform you if there is a recall ..the other guys wont. Bfold will help you sort out nagging little problem which might creep up.... the other guys wont.
They might offer a checkup after 30 days ... which is somewhat important.... the other guys wont ...

and and and .... is it worth to risk your money AND dont get any service ?
This is a pretty rare bike ... you will need somebody to help u down the road

Thor

pctjeff23

Damn, I was hoping they were not from Indonesia. Like HGR said, casting aspersions on an entire country as far as scams is somewhat stereotypical, but from what I've heard Indonesia is a hotbed for scams. Also, from what I understand, authorized Pacific dealers can not deal to overseas customers, correct? The only authorized dealer in the US that I have come across is Bfold.

Jerry, I saw fudgecycles but they told me they do not ship to the USA. I'm not sure if I'd be willing to buy a bike second hand from e-bay unless I was absolutely certain of its condition, which would not be possible to know via e-bay.

Neo, I was hoping to use it for lightweight touring (15 pounds or less of baggage). It seems to be the best lightweight ( ~20 pounds or less) model folding bike (that is under the 62 inch baggage limit). The only other one that I came across that seems to rival it is the Airnimal and the price for those is way too high for me. They sell out of England, so I don't think I would be able to buy that anyway in the US.

HGR, when you say the less expensive Pacific Reach, are you referring to the IF Reach or the Reach Racer. The IF Reach seems too heavy at 26 pounds (big difference from the 19.6 of the SL). The Reach Racer is 21.6 pounds. I figure 2 pounds heavier that the SL is significant in terms of ride quality, no? It is more in my price range, though.

Anyone know anything about www.bicyclehero.com. They are selling the SL bike for $2,800 with free shipping to the US. They operate out of South Korea, but again, how they authorized to deal overseas to the USA?

Burn and others, thanks for your help on andibycicles. I've decided it's not worth the risk unless someone comes on here and proves to me the reputability of the seller, which I don't see happening.

HGR3inOK

I was referring to the Reach Racing model on the bfold web site.

Would you seriously consider purchasing the bike from them instead of your local Pacific authorized dealer bfold? If yes, then why?

-HANK RYAN-
Norman, Oklahoma USA

kamtsa

You plan to pay with a credit card, right? If so, check with your bank what protection you get? If they don't ship you may be able to protest the charge and get your money back.

Ozonation

That's true... but it's still a risk. I'd advise like others - buy the bike from a reputable dealer that offers significant after sales support. If you're going to ride it that much, you know you'll need professional services sooner or later.

pctjeff23

I received two e-mails from the Marketing Manager and CEO of Pacific Cycles. Both said they have never heard of andibicycles and that Bfold is the only authorized dealer to the US. Confirmation.

Ozonation

Well, that seems pretty conclusive! Just buy the bike and enjoy it!

seadragonpisces

NYCE wheels in NYC seem pretty reliable and they sell Pacific Cycles, so why not try them, I remember them selling the SL before I made my decision. I bought my Reach Scandium Edition framed bike from Fudges cycles in the UK, where I am based but you wouldnt want to pay UK prices thats for sure

smallwheeler

snap!

BassNotBass

What does that mean concerning NYCE Wheels?

seadragonpisces

That I have heard some good reviews about them and plus they sell Pacific bikes, they have a video on their site on the IF Reach. Its what made me decide to bUy my Reach from Fudges here in the UK

smallwheeler

nyce wheels is a retail showroom. they dont do any service. personally, i find them annoying. they post numerous videos on youtube claiming to be "reviews" but, really the videos are just adverts. if you do a google search of any folding bike, nyce wheels is likely to be in the top 5 results because they spend the majority of their time doing social media marketing. go into their shop and ask 5 questions. the answers to 4 of them will be, "we dont do that here." the answer to the 5th question is, "MSRP +"

Ozonation

So, you're criticizing a business... for being a business?

BassNotBass

What I got out of his comment is that if you care about knowledge and service, Bfold would be the better option.

Ozonation

Ah true... and I'm not questioning that. If you want service, go for a place that offers it, but personally, I cannot fault a business for promotion and marketing. So long as they're upfront about what they do or do not do, then it's buyer beware.

But I've had a couple interactions via phone and email with NYCE Wheels and found them helpful and informative, and in hindsight, relatively unbiased now that I own a Brompton. Their videos are, of course, not objective reviews, but I found them both entertaining and informative. For people like me who don't live within 200 km of a major shop that carries folding bikes, the videos were extremely helpful: I could at least see in detail how the bike worked, and I appreciate the time they took to produce them.

pctjeff23

Regarding NYCE Wheels, I've had a similiar positive experience with them, and agree with Ozonation. I went there to look at the Pacific Reach Road they had. The employee was extremely helpful, particularly with taking the bike apart to measure the "folded" dimensions. I didn't end up buying the bike because it wasn't under 62'', but he thanked me for coming in to look at it. I called him up today because the Pacific Reach SL is listed on the website, but as currently unavailable. So I asked him if he would be able to order more. He said no, but recommended I look at a model that they don't carry, since it was suited for what I was looking to do with the bike.

Now, let me vent on Bfold because this has been pissing me off all day. If you think I am being unreasonable, please tell me. This just does not seem like good or even average customer service to me. Surprises me because I got off to a good start with them. I went in to their store to look at the Reach SL about a week ago. The salesperson there (not the manager/owner of the store) was very helpful in answering my questions, mainly regarding specs. on the bike and perforamance. I told him I'd let them know, since I had to think about the price. I came across the andibicycles site and their price. At the time, I thought the site was legit. I e-mailed the owner at Bfold and asked him if he could match the site's price. He told me he'd never heard of the site and that he had contacted Pacific to see if they were an authroized dealer. I did the same and got the response which I posted above. So the site was a fraud. Fine. I accept that. I e-mailed the Bfold owner again and asked him if I could come in on Saturday to ask some follow-up questions about the Reach SL and take a look at the Reach Racing model. I told him I was 99% on buying one of these bikes when I came in. I also asked him if they would help show me how to do the 58'' fold (I had told him this was one of the big selling points for me). He e-mailed me this:
"Are you comfortable with the price? I would hate to do all the work and still need to compete with another website!


I believe "name of salesperson" already spend a good amount of time with you and you have test road the bike and was happy with it.


I have send you picture of the bike in a travel case.


We would only pack the bike into the travel case when a customer buy the bike and the travel case together."


First of all, I did not previously do a test ride, so that's incorrect. The salesperson spoke with me, but no test ride. Also, is it that unreasonable to ask to do a test fold before I buy the bike? And even if I buy it, he is unwilling to test fold it into a case if I don't buy his case? He knows that a main reason I want the bike is to take in a suitcase or suitcase sized box and that I need to know how to fold it into the suitcase. And you would hate to do all the work??? You're selling a $3,000 piece of equipment. Expect to do a little work to make the sale. This is not cut and dry like buying a $3 gallon of milk. I'd like to make sure this is what I want by speaking with the seller and making sure I understand the features of the bike. The tone of the e-mail just drove me nuts with this arrogant "we've already done enough for you and we're doing no more" attitude.

Maybe, I'll reconsider, but that just doesn't sound like someone who cares about giving time to a customer. Unfortunately, I guess Bfold has a lockdown on selling this bike in the US.