bicyclepost

Hello, I'm new to the forum and drop bars and any kind of bikes using them and picked up my first such bike, a used Motobecane Grand Touring, for $275 a few weeks ago. I've noticed it is not the most comfortable bike and I initially thought it was something I had to get used to but haven't yet. I get pain in the palms of my hands when using the same position for just a couple minutes. It was particularly bad when riding the hoods because my hands would slide down into the brakes and cause pain between my thumb and index finger. It was also kind of difficult to squeeze my brakes from there. I talked to someone at a bike shop today and he suggested rotating the bar back so there is a flatter surface leading up to the hoods but this puts the drops in an awkward position. The guy said it's difficult to fix that problem with old bikes because of how the hoods were designed to be pointy and less ergonomic but there must be some way to fix this rather than just buying a newer bike! I also have foam grips on my bars, could this be contributing to the problem? When I go over bumps and cracks in the road there are certain pressure points on my palm that get pain and numbness shooting up them. Another piece of info I might add, the frame is 59 cm I believe and fits just under my crotch, so maybe a bit too big for me. Any help would be much appreciated! I tried to add pictures but apparently I can't until I post more.

Mr. 66

malcala622

+1 on the suggestion to raise handlebars or even lowering the saddle a bit. Sitting too high will put more weight on ur hands.

brianmcg123

jyl

Bikerider007

Raise bars a little and try sliding saddle back a little. My need to lower post a little. Probably too much weight on the hands

Salamandrine 

To address your original question, if the frame just fits under your crotch, then it is correctly sized by the methods of the time. You should have some clearance though. Can you lift the wheels up an inch off the ground if you pull the bike up firmly? One inch was the ROT in the 70s. Generally, a bigger bike is more comfortable.

Anyway, people didn't ride around on the hoods then as they do now. The hoods were a position used sometimes, but it wasn't the main one. Not designed for that. Try riding the tops and the bends as jyl suggested, and move around, for sure. Personally I'd lose the foam grips. I always hated those. Counter intuitively, those actually could be part of the problem. Try some basic modern padded vinyl or cork tape instead. Also, consider cycling gloves.

Ultimately, it may just be the dropped bars, which can take some getting used to. After riding a while, your body will adapt and the advantages become more clear.

79pmooney

OK, this is going to run counter to most of the suggestions above. This could be a fit issue for your wrists and hands. Trial and error is by far the best way to sort this out. Get the wrenches you need to adjust the handlebar rotation, the stem height and the brake lever location. Remove the handlebar tape. Yup. I'm serious. Wrap any brake and shifter cables with electrical tape. Now put those wrenches in your pocket and go for a ride. Stop any time you get a hunch that you need the brake levers higher or lower or the bars rotated "this way".

Doing this systematically is better but can take far longer if your starting point is not close. Don't tape the handlebars until you feel you are at least close and when you do, don't buy expensive tape. Buy $6 cloth handlebar tape. Wrap from the handlebar end up to the stem. Keep carrying those wrenches. WIth cloth tape, you can unwrap the tape several times and mover the brake levers. Don't get the nice stuff until you KNOW you've got everything dialed in.

You may still need the padded tape, gloves etc., but there is a good chance that just dialing in the handlebar and brake lever position to the best for your hand, wrists and riding position will solve your issues. Be aware that you may also find the best setup does not fit the various "rules". (I've started tipping my bars down past the horizontal drops, levers very low. The persistent tingling in my hands after rides doesn't happen on the bikes I have so modified.) It is entirely possible that your handlebars and brake levers are not the best for your hands and riding style. Be open minded. Seriously consider changing them it this seems to be the case. (It could be very useful to ride someone else's bike with bars/levers you are looking at.)

Oh, carry tape so you can mark where the last setting was and return to it. For handlebar rotation, sight down the drop and see where it would meet the chaninstay,

Ben

Prowler 

palincss

A couple of inches is a big raise for short length quills. A switch to a long quill stem like a Nitto Technomic might be required to achieve that. But stem height isn't the only contributor to hand pain. Stem length plays a major role too; too short a stem puts the bar too close, which in turn puts a lot of weight on your hands. And if you're considering changing the stem, it makes sense to look at the handlebar and the brake levers too. Bars come in many different shapes and widths, and many prefer the newer "aero" style brake levers to the old style where the cable came out of the top of the lever. But if you're considering any changes like this, it would make a lot of sense to get professional help in fitting the bike rather than just haphazardly swapping components.

davester

Is the pain obviously from putting too much weight on your hands? If so, you definitely need to move your saddle backwards until you can balance on the bike without the need to push hard against the handlebars to hold yourself up. That should relieve the pain but may make you too stretched out. Fixing the stretched out issue will then require a shorter stem. As others have mentioned, raising the stem may also help a bit. I would not tilt the bars up too much...better to have the drops pointing roughly at the rear axle or a little higher and move the brakes up a little bit on the bars rather than doing that. A very rough rule of thumb for brake lever positioning is that a straightedge along the bottom of the drops should line up just below the tips of the brake levers. If the tips come much lower than that then the brake levers are probably too low on the bars. If getting advice from an LBS, make sure you're dealing with a really old and experienced guy since modern bike setup bears little resemblance to vintage bike setup.

GailT

I think that's the key problem - the low placement of the hoods on vintage/classic bikes puts most of the pressure on the soft area between the thumb and index finger, and the only fix is to move the hoods higher up on the bar (similar to modern bikes) or only ride on the drops and top. Other adjustments to the stem etc might reduce the weight supported by the hands but doesn't address the root problem that the classic hood placement forces the weight onto a vulnerable, soft tissue area.

Wildwood 

79pmooney

+1 Thanks Prowler. Good tricks!

Eric, does your Motobecane have the old exposed brake cables coming off the tops of the levers? If so, seriously consider getting the newer "aero " levers where the cables run under the handlebar tape. Many of these levers have more modern and comfortable bodies as well. Look at the levers by Tektro and Cane Creek. Cane Creek's are made by Tektro and are a little higher end. All are very good as brake levers. Look for the one that you would like to wrap your hands around and rest your weight on.

Some of the C & V types will poo-poo you for going aero levers. I don't care. Any bike of mine is going aero if I am to ride it. (I was cursing those exposed cables in 1977; my racing days, when I could not put my hands where I wanted them on my very long days on the bike.)

Ben

canklecat

This...
Older bikes had terrible ergonomics. The mid-to-late '80s aero hoods/levers were somewhat better. But those still can't compare with the comfort of contemporary designs. I recently test rode a Specialized Tarmac. Wow. Huge difference in every way. Riding the hoods didn't put all the weight between my thumbs and forefingers, or even the base of the thumb. I could support my weight with my entire hand, wrist and forearm. Not to mention the compact drops, stiffer bottom bracket and more responsive climbing and acceleration, and lighter weight for climbing.

When I re-wrapped the bars last night on my '89 Centurion Ironman, I used padded tape and doubled the wrap around the levers, under the rubber hood. It's a tight fit but so much more comfortable. I needed the insulation because I'm recovering from shoulder injuries (hit by a car a couple of months ago), but also have an old neck injury (yup, hit by a car in 2001). But the padding also added just a bit of thickness that reduced the reach very slightly -- and my bike was already pretty close to being an optimal fit, so just the slight change was enough to make it comfortable and still efficient. I went for a test ride during the wee hours last night to avoid the heat -- and still averaged 16 mph on a route where that's my best speed, yet I wasn't really pushing hard. I could tell that I had enough in the tank that if I'd pushed harder I could have averaged 17-18 mph over that familiar 16-20 mile course, which is very fast for me. A lot of that is down to bike fit and being comfortable, because it's hard to ride fast and also enjoy yourself when your body is nagging at you with lots of little aches and pains.

Salubrious

Hand pain and numbness are a sign that the fit is wrong.

I know you know that, here are some additional tips:

FIRST: The seat height must be correct! This is tricky, as the placement of your foot on the pedal will affect this. If you are running clips, you will want to be in the clips so as to ascertain the seat height. If you are using cleats, set them up so the ball of the foot is just forward of the pedal axle. If your hips rock when pedaling, you are too high, if too low you will feel it on the front of your knees. The right height will make the bike feel lighter. When adjusting seat height, unless you are a mile off, make no more than 1/8"-1/4" adjustments!

The set back is critical too. Too far back will cause more pressure on your hands! Being closer will cause you to be more upright, which takes pressure off your hands. Too far forward messes with your seat height (as does the seat angle) and you may feel constrained, especially in turns.

The seat angle is critical as well. Avoid angling the seat down at all costs! Start at level, and you may find that the seat needs to be pointed slightly nose-high. This is very seat-dependent; the correct seat is different for everyone! If the seat is angled down in the front, it will jam you into the bars and you will have excessive hand pressure. I'm not going into selection of the correct saddle- but that is really important too!

Obviously as others have pointed out, the height of the bars and how far they are from you plays a role too. Generally if you are having hand pain, the bars are too far away and/or too low, causing you to be less upright, and so to support your body, too much weight on the hands. Quill stems were available in various lengths and heights, you have to search one out that does both jobs right at the same time. Generally though, unless racing, go with a higher stem with a shorter reach. I would ignore advice that instructs to avoid raising the bars above the seat height. The correct height will be a position that does not give you hand pain and that's different for everyone.

One point here- dropped bars are for racing. They found their way on to regular bikes though and people think they should be fine for regular riding. They aren't. They are not the most comfortable thing around, simply because comfort has been sacrificed for speed. But if you are on the tops you should be able to set them up so you don't get pain. But if not racing, consider upright bars and a more upright position. This may mean you need a wider saddle if you go this route.

Handlebar padding makes no difference to hand comfort- correct fit does. Padding is only helpful if the fit is right! If you have the right fit, you will find that padded gloves are nice but not mandatory.

A little more on the racing bit- comfort on a bike is all about what you are willing to put up with. Younger people and racers put up with more than older people and people that might want to ride a really long ways. I just got back from something called the Tour Divide, which is a 2700 mile long mountain bike route. I didn't have any hand issues, knee issues, shin splints, back problems, no Shermer's neck- nothing. But I spent a lot of time making sure that the fit on my bike was in fact really correct. That is the key and if you get that right you won't have pain. My point here is that a lot of my comments above might be controversial, but only to those that like to race (even if only to pass someone ahead of them on the bike path) or those who don't realize how much discomfort they are dealing with or have decided that such is OK.

bicyclepost

I think this would be a great idea. Unfortunately I'm just in a temporary place right now and don't have access to the tools I need other than at the bike shop so I will have to invest.

Thanks for the great ideas everyone!

bicyclepost

I think this is an issue for me too. Probably a lot of problems with fit that I need to work out.

bicyclepost

Yes I do have those brake cables sticking out the top. I'm definitely seriously considering new levers. I'm very new to bike maintenance and everything so it'll take some time but think it will be well worth it.

gugie 

What's not covered so far is seat angle. It's quite common for newbies to push back on the bars to counteract sliding forward on the saddle. If all of the above don't help, try tipping your saddle up a bit.

63rickert

Yesterday my ride was on a bike with the 'bars 7cm below the saddle. The Ideale saddle that's about 140mm wide. Saddle pushed all the way back. Exposed cable routing. The brake levers are so old they don't have hoods and never did. Toe clips. 80mm of bottom bracket drop. Downtube shifters. Only 5 cogs in back. By current standards that bike is so strange it can't be ridden. Except it rides plush, real plush.

So I rode with a friend who was trying out a demo gravel bike. My friend is younger than me, much stronger, still competes. We went to a neighborhood nearby with brick streets. No modern road bike rides those streets. None would attempt it. But my friend has a high-zoot CF gravel bike with 40mm tires and less than 40psi. The most the modern bike could do without flying out of control was about 20mph. My old bike was just cruising. I could jump and drop the modern bike anytime. Comfortably. It's fun to be 66 and drop the youngsters easily. On a 58 year old bike.

Old Motobecane Grand Touring is a good bike and a comfortable bike. They are real easy to work on. Bikes are adjustable. They are very adjustable. It is good to adjust them. It's good to try out all the adjustments and find out what works.

Road Fan

Can you show a picture of this bike?

Salubrious

Actually, 5 posts back.

gugie 

Oops, missed it. Your reply was too complete ;-)

Wildwood