mlau

I just picked up my 2007 Brompton from the local bike shop.
They'd quoted me about $600 in repairs...which I sucked up and paid for.
Then, they told me that I'd need an additional $1000 for new problems that they found (rear wheel damages, rear cog not working, replace rear hinge).

However, the bike rides worse than before......argh!
While the new cables feel nicer in braking and the 2-sp shifter that works...the 3-sp shifting is totally useless. The rear hub is stuck in an in between position.

Intellectually, I know that stuff can happen.
Hell, I had a patient with a cracked tooth, that she didn't feel until *after* I did a filling on her.

Emotionally, I'm a bit pissed...especially when the bike guy wanted to read off the entire list of repairs and why I was paying such a big bill.


I'm pretty determined to learn how to service my bike...but I'm not sure what to do next:
1. Get a new rear wheel and install it myself (not sure if it's compatible).
Later, maybe install a titanium rear triangle?
2. buy a b75, and sell off my old brompton on craigslist (at a lower price, for a tinkerer)...after switching off my titanium post, SON hub, etc.
3. pimp out a titanium clone a la Raxel.

I'd appreciate tips.

-Matt

ps. Thanks Interceptor for your video on youtube.

pps. also, not sure if you recommend any books/videos to watch?

BromptonINrio

sorry to hear that.
600 was a ton of money for minor work ok the bike.
1000 would be insane money.
i know labor cost in usa is insanely higher than anywhere else in the world but that pricing is too mutch.
to learn bike mechanichs is simple, just youtube for it and many detailed videos will teach everysingle detail of procedures.
brompton bwr hub is almost indestructible, so my bet its still possible to desmantle it and fix, probably just by lube with atf oil.

botton line: dont get lured by bikeshops, do your research for prices.

for alternatives, as you have a brompton 6 speed, you can go for sturmey archer 5 speeds with 2 sprockets for us$150

https://rover.ebay.com/rover/0/0/0?mpre=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.co.uk%2Fulk%2Fitm%2F192608557446

or sturmey archer 8 hub

3speedslow

In the long run, it is always better to learn to help yourself. Special tools for certain jobs could be a stumbling block. Like it has been said here, the Internet has most of the knowledge available to see. Experience is yours to gain.

Good luck on your repairs!

bargainguy

If the hub was out of adjustment, take it back and have them make it right. Seriously. Shouldn't take long, and you get your $1000 worth.

Setting an indicator chain on a 3 speed hub is not a biggie for them, or at least it shouldn't be if they're a decent shop.

I have heard stories about shops with no employees capable of servicing an internally geared hub. I hope this isn't one of those.

mlau

To be fair, I stopped it at the $600 mark. They charged me the $515, since the outcome wasn't good.

email 1:
"Hey Matthew, been working on an estimate for you, there are some challenges so far
Good news- I worked some triflow into your front brake and the spring came back nicely, we'll recable and pads for now.

The housing on your rear brake cable is cracked, I recommend replacement
I recommend recabling the 2 speed shifter, this will mitigate the lag you feel after activating the shifter
Bottom bracket bearings critically need replacement
driveside/right pedal is broken

I recommend replacement of your drivetrain due to wear and damage to crankset (ring is bent)
Brompton has discontinued this cog set quite a while back, I have called the mfg of the hub and brompton and the part is not available through them, I have seen one for sale online in a shop in australia, I have contacted them for a quote. The other option is to get a new rear wheel or rebuild the existing rim to a new hub.
It will be much cheaper than building a new wheel if we can get this cog for you, even if shipping is expensive.

The total is at $519.17, it includes everything except this last part that we need. Please call me at X or email at X if you have any questions at all. I am hoping if the AU shop gets back to me soon we may still be looking at the 13th for turn around. Take care!"
Here's email 2:
"Hey Matthew,
We installed that cog set for you. Unfortunately, we have some bad news. The rear internal hub is designed to have oil applied to its moving parts occasionally. Because this has not been done for some time it has caused the assembly grease to harden, and damaged the internal parts. Additionally, the braking surface is worn enough that the wheel is warped. I had ordered the cog from australia hoping to save your rear wheel, but this will not be possible. Additionally, the rear hinge of the bike has so much play that we recommend immediate service as well. These additional costs would bring the total to nearly $1000. I understand that this is a large difference from the amount that we discussed and you had approved. If you wanted to go ahead with the repair we would pull a wheel off our stock bike for you so you wouldn't have to wait any longer, and we would waive the install for the wheel. I'm very sorry that I was not able to forsee these items until the service interval, I wish there was better news for you. Unfortunately this bike has not had regular maintenance so it has so much wear and damage it was difficult to estimate. Please give me, Cari, or Chris, a call at"

email 3:
"Hey Matthew.
Brakes and shifter- tighter in a good way? Regarding the hub- there was some looseness in the hub that we believe was masking the 'jittering', we tightened it to prevent the axle from braking. This made the problems with the internal hub more evident. Installing a new rear wheel would solve the issue, but with a few caveats. One: the 6 speed wheels that brompton currently specs on their bikes do not use the same kind of cogs as the sachs/sram hub on your bike, that's why I had to order the cog from australia (both cogs on your bike are new, sorry for the confusion) It is easier to find the cogs for the current wheel offerings- there is additionally a different indicator chain and that chain connects to the cable in a different way. I believe that the shifter you have would work with a sturmey hub (like what is on the current wheels) but I would want to find out for certain, please let me know if you'd like me to investigate this. Swapping the wheel is pretty straightforward, if you decide to do so in the future, we would waive the labor to install (please let cari or chris know if you decide to do so"

jlaw

[QUOTE=mlau;21140024]I just picked up my 2007 Brompton from the local bike shop.
They'd quoted me about $600 in repairs...which I sucked up and paid for.
Then, they told me that I'd need an additional $1000 for new problems that they found (rear wheel damages, rear cog not working, replace rear hinge).

(/QUOTE]

Agreed that it's time to do at least some of your own repairs. For $1000 you could buy every Park Tool you'd ever need, a nice work stand, and have some $$ left over. And, if it's possible to do, somebody(s) has a youtube video showing you how. The Park Tool website has many excellent repair videos. 'Calvin'at Park Tool is THE MAN!

Good luck.

linberl

$1600??? Geez, just buy a new one! The B75 is only a thousand bucks. And you can find new last year models for $1600. That's nuts.

mlau

Appreciate the input.

I'd been used to regular bikes, and my Swift (which is pretty customizable).
I'll likely get the b75, and mod it out to a M3R

Also, will be buying a bike stand, some bike books, and a chainbreaker.

Do you think I could swap out the back wheel with a modern replacement wheel in the interim?
Or should I not waste my time?

jlaw

I don't know exactly what you are looking for, but a quick search shows that you can get a new 20" rear wheel with a decent rim and Shimano 3 speed internal hub for $89. Coaster brake. Shipped from overseas.

https://www.sportmegastore.com/us/bi...CABEgJvkvD_BwE

mlau

I ended up buying a bike rack to work on, chain breaker, lube, Zinn book for road bike repairs...and the rear wheel for Brompton 6 speed, new cogs, new chain from Universal Cycles
https://www.universalcycles.com/shop...caAnedEALw_wcB

Schwinnsta

youtube is your friend

mlau

Yup. Got to thank 1nterceptor for a very nice vid on the process.

Just ordered chain pliers.

mlau

Got wheel in mail. Got tools. After leaving office in 15 min, look forward to trying to repair my bike

mlau

Got back from a rough day at work, at about 9 pm.
Unboxed wheel. Applied rim tape. Applied sprocket and the $%^& SA sprocket clamp (silly british engineering). Took off old wheel.

Opened up hub to find that bike shop had F%^&ed up my hub, since half the ball bearing were missing.

Put on new wheel. Oiled it. adjusted chain slack. Works like a champ!


I may be wrong, but I really feel that the bike shop wasn't doing me any favors. The "critical fixes" were mainly to upgrade my older Brompton to newer parts (spyder crank, newer pedal, new cabling, new chain).

The important stuff--very worn sprockets, etc wasn't addressed.

And the F^&*ed up my rear wheel. Sheesh!

On the plus side, I won't be taken advantage of again by same shop.
Working on a Brompton is actually waaaaay easier than expected.
It's a hell of a lot easier than cleaning up the mess left by my employees in pissing off a patient.


To anyone with an older Brompton--don't be afraid to work on it!

jlaw

Definitely a shop to avoid - and I would take that wheel back to them and ask what it is they did for the $600!

You're on your way to being an amateur bike mechanic.

Congrats. and ride on!

12boy

Back in the 70s SA hubs had an oil port and relied on infusions of oil to keep things lubed. They did ooze oil a bit but worked very well. I took my RF3 hub to the LBS and they worked on it using YouTube instructions as IGH hubs are very rare here. After a while they figured that two different types of grease were needed. Having read about the oil lube I applied a few ccs of 5/20 synthetic oil through the shifter port on the drive side of the axle and it worked well even when ridden in below zero F temps. When it gets noisy a little more oil solves that. Ordinary Jagwire cable housing and regular cables work fine and the housing can be bought by the foot. If you don't have a cable/ cable housing cutter and you take in your cables and housing to the LBS they can cut them to fit there. Be sure to lable the housing and take a picture or two before you didisassemble the cables so you can put them back as they were. Buy a chain breaker and cut new chain to length yourself and buy some extra sprockets for the hub to replace with the chain if it skips after putting a new one one. I could buy the housing at $1 per foot, the cables for $5 each, a sprocket for $7, a 7/8 speed KMC Z chain for $10 and a nice Park chain breaker for $17. You got hosed by the shop. With a little practice you can replace chain, sprockets, cables and housing in an hour or so.

jlaw

Some bike-specific tools are worth the money and there are no non-specific substitutions possible. Park Tools are well made and time-tested.

But, you may already own many of the nec. tools or you can purchase affordable versions at Harbor Freight, Home Depot, etc. (digital calipers, metric box wrenches, metric T allen wrenches, torque wrenches, etc.)

I have always been able to successfully cut bike cable housing with sharp-nosed wire cutters and then use an awl to open-up the interior of the housing. Or, you can spend from $15 to $35 for the specific tool which will probably work a bit better than my method.

Raxel

You have three options, do everything yourself, pay the shop, or get a brand new one.
That's up to your hourly wage and how much you enjoy the repair work. My wage is dirt cheap so I do everything myself
Here's are some additional info:

-A ultra-lightweight 2/3spd wheelset costs around $150-200
-Aluminium segmented cable housing costs around $30
-I prefer chinese CNC ~$120 BB+crank, but YMMV (if you are heavy / pedals hard you need stronger one)
-Chainring costs around $30
-Titanium rear hinge costs around $20~$30
-Detachable pedals can be as low as ~$30
-Individual cogs are cheaper than $10

Brompton_X

Do you mind to share the name of the bike shop? I also live in the east bay and always go to the bike shop in Oakland if I have to. However, 90% of the repairing job I can have it done by myself in my garage.
Feel free to let me know next time if you want to change your crankset or something. I'd be more than happy to help. I just learn from YouTube on how to cut the chain and install the Dynamo last week. Feel very proud of myself ... lol

termv

Being an Accountant + a certified Car Mechanic, this is one sick story.

What gets me are the missing ball bearings.

This is a mistake which cannot happen.

Period!!!

This is truly a sad story with you being literally screwed big time, and a good ending because now you are learning to help yourself.

But for real, WHERE was the quality control? Where were the ethics?

I had at BMW an already licensed Car Mechanic who wanted to beat the crapp out of me by insisting that I check the rear brakes without removing the rear tires.
Needless to say, I said I will do so, but I still took off the tires. The thing was there was indeed something wrong with the brakes. Discovered the problem, fixed it, and in the end the Client was safe.

What I want to say with this is that people should have ethics.

This shop should be closed for good.

Missing ball bearings is a serious event.

Lalato

As a fellow Alamedan, I wouldn't mind knowing which bike shop this is. There are 4+ bike shops in Alameda so it would be good to know who to avoid.

tmac100

On BF, folks have absolutely no issue with naming shops that receive accolades. There should be no issue in naming shops which provide poor service (as you have detailed) and thus deserve bricks (hitting them).

Bricks properly landed on the bike shop are an effective attention-getting mechanism to change poor customer service.

Naturally, the call is yours!

However, you would provide great Public Service by naming the shop and the writer of the emails to you. Commercial ventures MUST be accountable. The word will get out - if you let it.

mlau

Thing is, I am not 100% that they knocked out the bearings.

When I was fiddling with the cogs/sprockets on the old wheel/hub, the hub popped open. Nothing flew out, but I noticed quite a few bearings missing.

My assumption is that they popped open the hub on accident trying to replace *one* sprocket.

Again, it's my assumption...I don't have solid proof.

As a fellow business owner, I am loathe to slander another business unless I am dead sure that they did it.

That being said, I am very happy that I started doing my own bike wrenching.

mlau

Oh, and it was Cari at Alameda Bicycles.

Maybe my experience was atypical?
They have a pretty good reputation with my patients.

Also, fwiw, I have had stuff happen at my business too. As a dentist, sometimes there's a tooth fracture that isn't evident until after a filling has been attempted. However, I try to be way more transparent and honest.

That being said, this whole experience has been a costly lesson to me in customer service, perceived integrity, and a push to my own bike stuff.


Fwiw, as a guitar builder, our tools are way more expensive than the bike stuff. I have no problems with paying for good tools.

Lalato

@mlau. I've had pretty good service at Alameda Cycles in the past, but I've not had anything major done there. Just some basic stuff that I didn't have the time or inclination to deal with.

I think they're the only (?) Brompton dealer on the island so it would make sense to go there. I would call them up and ask about it. They did some extensive work... it's on them to make sure it's all working out OK for you. My past interactions with them have been positive. Hope that yours turns out positive too.