Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Fifty Plus (50+)
Reload this Page >

What Causes "Burning Knees" and what can I do about it?

Notices
Fifty Plus (50+) Share the victories, challenges, successes and special concerns of bicyclists 50 and older. Especially useful for those entering or reentering bicycling.

What Causes "Burning Knees" and what can I do about it?

Old 07-23-18, 11:51 PM
  #51  
timtak
Senior Member
 
timtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yamaguchi City, Japan
Posts: 1,085

Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007, Look KG386, R022 Re-framed Azzurri Primo, Felt Z5, Trek F7.3 FX

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 398 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 73 Posts
My knees are starting to go. My right knee feels kind of burning or inflamed after heavy cycling days.

I lowered my seat to make it more normal, but that bike hurts my knees because I am still stomping in the smaller space.

I need to think Flintstone spin as some kind member recommended here on these forums.

Higher saddle, lower gears, more cadence, smoother stroke, practice on rollers and maybe glucosamine sulfate.

Last edited by timtak; 07-24-18 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Sorry that should have been higher saddle.
timtak is offline  
Old 07-24-18, 04:27 PM
  #52  
pursuance
Senior Member
 
pursuance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 244

Bikes: Bicycles

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
71 and my knees are better than ever.
Meniscus can be regenerated.
youtube > John Bergman knees.

Best of luck to ya...
pursuance is offline  
Likes For pursuance:
Old 07-30-18, 06:46 AM
  #53  
timtak
Senior Member
 
timtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yamaguchi City, Japan
Posts: 1,085

Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007, Look KG386, R022 Re-framed Azzurri Primo, Felt Z5, Trek F7.3 FX

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 398 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 73 Posts
Originally Posted by pursuance
71 and my knees are better than ever.
Meniscus can be regenerated.
youtube > John Bergman knees.
Best of luck to ya...
Thanks very much. I started doing the first John Bergman exercise here
which is to put weights on your ankles (a 1kg band strapping a 1.3kg barbell in my case)
and dangle them back and forth for ten minutes. It also occurs to me that cycling in circles, scraping the mud of the bottom of ones feet and even going over the top and pulling upwards on the back part of the cycle then, cycling itself should be a regenerative exercise.

I was doing some crazy stomping, out of the saddle in the drops, pulling up and pushing more than my weight on hills.
I am hoping that at least becoming a spinner, as opposed to a stomper, will allow me to cycle at least another 20 years. I am 53.

(I am slightly persuaded by the aquatic ape theory of human development, and think that swimming and catching shellfish was important in human evolution. There shellfish shell mounds all over the world. We could not run fast enough to kill but could use tools to open shells (and also to push large predators from an scavenge their kills perhaps). I think that swimming may be a knee regenerative exercise (in the above Bergman pull apart and wobble sense) and that glucosamine is made from shell extract. I am feeling paleo. )
timtak is offline  
Old 07-30-18, 10:10 AM
  #54  
pursuance
Senior Member
 
pursuance's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: SoCal
Posts: 244

Bikes: Bicycles

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times in 2 Posts
@timtak
About 7 years ago I started walking for 20 minutes every morning with 5# Everlast weight bags around my ankles. After about three months it was upped to 10# each ankle.
Bergman stopped this procedure because abrupt turns could further damage the knee joint.
So now it is leg swings while seated high.
After about 18 months I stopped the routine. Now I cycle almost everyday
and do the stairs at the bluffs w/o using the handrail as this works the short muscles used for balance.

It takes time, much more time as we age.
Oh yeah... Stay hydrated. Google dehydration and dementia.
pursuance is offline  
Likes For pursuance:
Old 07-30-18, 04:43 PM
  #55  
timtak
Senior Member
 
timtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yamaguchi City, Japan
Posts: 1,085

Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007, Look KG386, R022 Re-framed Azzurri Primo, Felt Z5, Trek F7.3 FX

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 398 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 73 Posts
Thank you. I need some heavier weights I think. I have two sets of 1kg weights for a total of only 4.4lbs on each ankle.

I cycled 2 hours this morning concentrating on the upswing. I was slower of course, but my knees feel fine.

My really low handle bars encourage me to get into a sort of forward leaning sprinty,Obree, superman type position and mash. I liked it. But my knees need me to spin henceforth.
timtak is offline  
Old 10-12-19, 07:55 PM
  #56  
timtak
Senior Member
 
timtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yamaguchi City, Japan
Posts: 1,085

Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007, Look KG386, R022 Re-framed Azzurri Primo, Felt Z5, Trek F7.3 FX

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 398 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 73 Posts
I eventually worked out that my knee pain (only in the right knee) was caused partly by poorly adjusted, inward pointing cleats. Not only was I mashing, standing in the drops and pushing more than my weight, by pulling up on my bars, but I was also sort of locking my knees by pointing my toes inwards, causing my cleats to move to that position, forcing me to cycle toes-inward-pointingly.


When my knees hurt as they did yesterday, I do some upswing only rides with almost no push all pull on my cleats in imitation of Dr. John Bergman's first exercise of pulling knees and wobbling them. I must be pulling around 10kg. And I find that pull cycling works, especially (am I just imagining this?) if I eat glucosamine too.


When my knees burn I eat glucosamine and pull on my pedals using my cleats, and my knees seem to get better, until I mash in the drops again, or use poorly adjusted cleats.
timtak is offline  
Likes For timtak:
Old 10-14-19, 08:47 AM
  #57  
ultrarider7
Full Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 426

Bikes: 1964 Schwinn Varsity, 1985 Trek 410, 1985 Peugeot P 8, 2021 Pinarello Dogma F12, 2022 Cannondale Topstone Alloy

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 106 Post(s)
Liked 1,102 Times in 327 Posts
Crazy knee pain

My knees bother me for the first mile or two, every single ride. I do try to pedal a little slower at first to warm up. The other crazy time they bother me isn't when I exert them but rather if I shift to a higher gear that seems like 'I am floating', in other words with no pressure or work required. My knees ache at pedaling air. Can't explain it any better than that, but that has stayed with me all season long.
ultrarider7 is offline  
Old 10-14-19, 11:43 AM
  #58  
1saxman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: The Old Dominion
Posts: 232

Bikes: Trek 930 (1992), Motobecane Hybrid w/juice brakes, spring fork and Shimano 8-spd hub.

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 26 Post(s)
Liked 17 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Kai Winters
IMO your seat is a bit too high...There should be a bend in the knees at bottom of the stroke.
Do you warm up your legs at the start of the ride? If not try starting your ride with at least 5 to 10 minutes of easy pedaling then start your plan of the day. Same at the end of the ride.
Start slowly...your body is new to this activity thing from the sounds of it and needs time to adjust.
Have you had a physical? You may want to get a physical just to make sure your body is ok for physical activity.

Take an over the counter aid...Aleve, etc.
Bingo! Seat too high and probably pushing too much gear. The 90 RPM thing is great, but the idea is that it is a constant - an engine that runs at the same speed all the time. When it gets harder to pedal, you downshift. When it gets easier to pedal, you upshift (at least until you're going as fast as you want, then you can coast). Like said above, cut back your rides - go by hours, not miles. Practice at 30 minutes without big hills until you can do that without 'knee burn', then start ramping it up a little at a time. I'm doing the same thing except I didn't have 'knee burn'. I need to break-in my seat and my hands so I'm doing the half-hour thing, twice a day if I can swing it, just to get used to the bike again after many years off. The thing is, after a certain age, you simply do not adapt to things as fast as 40 years ago - it takes many reps and much time.
As a side benefit, these short rides also are beneficial in helping you get used to the other aspects of riding again - your balance improves, you get better at shifting gears and you sharpen your road survival skills.
1saxman is offline  
Old 10-14-19, 11:50 AM
  #59  
terrymorse 
climber has-been
 
terrymorse's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 7,007

Bikes: Scott Addict R1, Felt Z1

Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3340 Post(s)
Liked 3,438 Times in 1,738 Posts
Since the OP appears to have just started riding recently, his knee pain/burning may simply caused by a strength or flexibility imbalance in his leg muscles. It's a very common problem. This type of knee pain responds well to exercises.

I've had occasional knee pain since I was a teen. I still get knee pain at the beginning of every season, but once my muscles have built back up, the knee pain goes away.

See the following article on stretching and strength exercises.
__________________
Ride, Rest, Repeat. ROUVY: terrymorse


terrymorse is offline  
Old 10-14-19, 07:07 PM
  #60  
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member
 
Flip Flop Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 2,104

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 761 Post(s)
Liked 554 Times in 321 Posts
change your foot placement on the pedal?
Flip Flop Rider is offline  
Old 10-14-19, 09:05 PM
  #61  
JanMM
rebmeM roineS
 
JanMM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Metro Indy, IN
Posts: 16,217

Bikes: Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 653 Post(s)
Liked 345 Times in 225 Posts
Originally Posted by terrymorse
Since the OP appears to have just started riding recently, his knee pain/burning may simply caused by a strength or flexibility imbalance in his leg muscles. It's a very common problem. This type of knee pain responds well to exercises.

I've had occasional knee pain since I was a teen. I still get knee pain at the beginning of every season, but once my muscles have built back up, the knee pain goes away.

See the following article on stretching and strength exercises.
So, the OP (Jinkster) started riding in 2014, which is when he posted to start this thread. Hasn't posted on BF since 2015. Hope he's feeling better.

Zombie Thread Alert!
__________________
Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
JanMM is offline  
Old 10-14-19, 09:07 PM
  #62  
Joe Bikerider
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2017
Location: Walnut Creek, CA
Posts: 755

Bikes: 1969 Peugeot PX10, 1992 Della Santa, Linus Roadster 8, Biria 700C ST-8

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 786 Post(s)
Liked 500 Times in 317 Posts
One thing that really helps me is keeping my knees warm. My rule of thumb is that if the temperature is less than 70F then I put on my leg warmers. Sometimes this feels a little goofy but I swear by it. Leg warmers are cheap and easy to take off later if it warms up. I’m now 67, been riding since college days. I’m not any great athlete but when I do 20-25 miles comfortably it feels great. Also stretching hamstrings is good, mine have always been tight. Best of luck.
Joe Bikerider is offline  
Old 10-22-19, 07:21 AM
  #63  
FiftySix
I'm the anecdote.
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Location: S.E. Texas
Posts: 1,823

Bikes: '12 Schwinn, '13 Norco

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1110 Post(s)
Liked 1,176 Times in 795 Posts
I'm gonna have to try this ankle weights and leg swings exercise.

My left knee doesn't like to push hard, which makes my right leg compensate with a harder push. Which is starting to make my right knee have some issues.
FiftySix is offline  
Old 10-23-19, 08:59 AM
  #64  
Flip Flop Rider
Senior Member
 
Flip Flop Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: South Carolina Upstate
Posts: 2,104

Bikes: 2010 Fuji Absolute 3.0 1994 Trek 850

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 761 Post(s)
Liked 554 Times in 321 Posts
Originally Posted by pursuance
71 and my knees are better than ever.
Meniscus can be regenerated.
youtube > John Bergman knees.

Best of luck to ya...
wow

thanks for that, very cool
Flip Flop Rider is offline  
Old 10-23-19, 11:57 PM
  #65  
Miele Man
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 4,655

Bikes: iele Latina, Miele Suprema, Miele Uno LS, Miele Miele Beta, MMTB, Bianchi Model Unknown, Fiori Venezia, Fiori Napoli, VeloSport Adamas AX

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1324 Post(s)
Liked 927 Times in 640 Posts
I realize that this thread was started almost 5 years ago but...

When starting back into bicycling it's a good hing to stat by pedaling lightly for a while = each ride and also for the first few weeks. I've read that it's good to put just enough pressure on the pedals to turn the cranks that is keep the pressure very light.

Also. If a person experiences pain and can do so it's a great thing if they can see a SPORTS MEDICINE doctor. I ay that because years ago i had some issues whilst riding up hills and my family doctor told me to take time off the bike. I saw a sports medicine doctor and she identified the problem and her treatment for it still allowed me to ride.

Cheers
Miele Man is offline  
Old 10-24-19, 02:25 AM
  #66  
KraneXL
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 3,623

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3405 Post(s)
Liked 240 Times in 185 Posts
Originally Posted by 10 Wheels
Who would you see if you had a painful tooth ache?

Take care of the knees.

You don't want this.

Do use the spoiler, I have a weak stomach. Not really but a WARNING would be nice.
KraneXL is offline  
Old 10-27-19, 05:34 AM
  #67  
coffeesnob
Senior Member
 
coffeesnob's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: Va
Posts: 707

Bikes: Trek DS 8.3 - cannondale M500

Mentioned: 37 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2634 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times in 82 Posts
FWIW
My wifes knees were starting to bother her we raised the saddle up 0.5" and move it back about the same. Yesterday her knees didn't get sore at all.
coffeesnob is offline  
Old 10-27-19, 03:53 PM
  #68  
KraneXL
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 3,623

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3405 Post(s)
Liked 240 Times in 185 Posts
Originally Posted by coffeesnob
FWIW
My wifes knees were starting to bother her we raised the saddle up 0.5" and move it back about the same. Yesterday her knees didn't get sore at all.
Does she do any weight training?
KraneXL is offline  
Old 10-27-19, 06:46 PM
  #69  
timtak
Senior Member
 
timtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yamaguchi City, Japan
Posts: 1,085

Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007, Look KG386, R022 Re-framed Azzurri Primo, Felt Z5, Trek F7.3 FX

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 398 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 73 Posts
Originally Posted by FiftySix
I'm gonna have to try this ankle weights and leg swings exercise.
It seems to me you can get a very similar exercise by
using pedal cleats and pulling, not pushing, on them
to cycle.

Originally Posted by coffeesnob
FWIW
My wifes knees were starting to bother her we raised the saddle up 0.5" and move it back about the same. Yesterday her knees didn't get sore at all.
This works for me too. Or rather, having your saddle too far back hurts knees. I would not know about having a saddle too low.
timtak is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 10:18 AM
  #70  
TKJava
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Location: North Eastern U.S.
Posts: 134

Bikes: Canyon Endurace, Kestrel RT1000 Ultegra

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 56 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 11 Posts
Originally Posted by Jinkster
3 months ago now and to save my legs from the ravages of diabetes and circulatory problems but...


Do I need to start looking at some supplements such as glucosamine/chondrotin stuff?...any recommendations here?...and please...don't refer me to go see a doctor....just share with me what has worked for you...please.

T.I.A. Bill.
I'm not a doctor but I have osteoarthritis in my knee and looking into the glucosamine/chondrotin supplements I have found no study that presents any significant evidence that it helps, sort of like Prevagin for memory. That said I'm going to try it anyway to see what happens.

You did mention diabetes and there is some indication that these supplements may raise your blood sugar so watch that.
TKJava is offline  
Old 10-30-19, 08:55 PM
  #71  
KraneXL
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: La-la Land, CA
Posts: 3,623

Bikes: Cannondale Quick SL1 Bike - 2014

Mentioned: 32 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3405 Post(s)
Liked 240 Times in 185 Posts
Originally Posted by TKJava
I'm not a doctor but I have osteoarthritis in my knee and looking into the glucosamine/chondrotin supplements I have found no study that presents any significant evidence that it helps, sort of like Prevagin for memory. That said I'm going to try it anyway to see what happens.

You did mention diabetes and there is some indication that these supplements may raise your blood sugar so watch that.
The supplements will help if you're deficient or your body lacks the ability to produce the necessary nutrients in sufficient portions. Nevertheless, in my experience exercise will do more than any pills or potions. In any event, it probably won't hurt.
KraneXL is offline  
Old 11-02-19, 09:40 PM
  #72  
Carbonfiberboy 
just another gosling
 
Carbonfiberboy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 19,501

Bikes: CoMo Speedster 2003, Trek 5200, CAAD 9, Fred 2004

Mentioned: 115 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3872 Post(s)
Liked 1,920 Times in 1,369 Posts
Originally Posted by TKJava
I'm not a doctor but I have osteoarthritis in my knee and looking into the glucosamine/chondrotin supplements I have found no study that presents any significant evidence that it helps, sort of like Prevagin for memory. That said I'm going to try it anyway to see what happens.

You did mention diabetes and there is some indication that these supplements may raise your blood sugar so watch that.
Good idea. There are many studies which found that it helps a little. I started taking glucosamine sulfate 35 years ago. The docs say my knee cartilage is nearly perfect. Restoring gone cartilage is one thing, preventing it or slowing it from going away is another. I see absolutely no down side to it. A clinical dose is 3g/day, 2 in morning, 1 at night, and 1g of MSM at night. They say give it 6 months before you decide it didn't do anything. But even then, if no improvement, there's evidence that it slows decay. I've never taken that much, more like 1g/day, but then I don't have any problems.
__________________
Results matter
Carbonfiberboy is offline  
Old 11-04-19, 04:34 AM
  #73  
timtak
Senior Member
 
timtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yamaguchi City, Japan
Posts: 1,085

Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007, Look KG386, R022 Re-framed Azzurri Primo, Felt Z5, Trek F7.3 FX

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 398 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 73 Posts
Originally Posted by timtak
This works for me too. Or rather, having your saddle too far back hurts knees. I would not know about having a saddle too low.
No! I did lower my saddle so that my feet are horizontal at the bottom of my
pedal stroke, on the advice of Carbon Fibre Boy and others. I thought I noticed
a minor improvement in power output. Till then I had been pedaling with my
foot in slight forward ankling tip-toe position at the bottom.

Returning my saddle to its previous "too high" position I find that cycling
is really comfortable again and easy on my knees. I am always pushing the
pedal around and never inadvertently attempting to elongate my crank (thus
compacting my knees). I nearly became an invalid, but I know feel I have
a lot more cycling left in me. Yeah.

I think that I may have designed the "too high" seat position because when
I started cycling it was because my knees hurt from going for runs when I
was overweight.

If you knees hurt, I recommend raising your saddle and putting your
saddle forward (to compensate for the rearward shift concomitant with
raising ones saddle).
timtak is offline  
Old 11-05-19, 04:51 AM
  #74  
Machoman121
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 175
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 95 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 5 Posts
Don't jump to conclusions too quickly. When I first got the Wahoo Kickr and Zwift my knees started to ache after a few months from the more intense cycling. I questioned and checked my saddle and cleat positions. It worried me enough to start another thread here about knee health. I no longer have any issues with my kness after a few weeks from when they started to hurt....I think my knees recovered and got stronger. It takes time to get stronger. It's not an overnight thing.

Surgery doesn't always solve the problem - a colleague who had gone through knee surgery from football still have issues with his kness.

If you're new to cycling - everything is gonna hurt. Everything. For awhile. Then when the aches are gone and you have found your fitness and feel virile you're gonna want to live longer just to cycle more.

Last edited by Machoman121; 11-05-19 at 04:56 AM.
Machoman121 is offline  
Likes For Machoman121:
Old 11-05-19, 08:13 PM
  #75  
timtak
Senior Member
 
timtak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Yamaguchi City, Japan
Posts: 1,085

Bikes: Trek Madone 5.2 SL 2007, Look KG386, R022 Re-framed Azzurri Primo, Felt Z5, Trek F7.3 FX

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 398 Post(s)
Liked 85 Times in 73 Posts
Originally Posted by Machoman121
Then when the aches are gone and you have found your fitness and feel virile you're gonna want to live longer just to cycle more.


I have gone back to this, from five years ago.

Leg position
by Timothy Takemoto, on Flickr
It is like putting on an old glove. I am optimistic.
timtak is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.