Ask your small, random, track-related questions here
#3501
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Hi All,
I'm investigating timing systems to invest in for training purposes. Perhaps the most prevalent use of the timing system would be short velodrome trials, i.e. 200 meters and standing laps. I know how exorbitant some electronic timing systems can be. I did look into the Free Lap System etc. The advantages here are reasonably priced and simple to use. The disadvantages are the necessity to use a watch on the handlebar and the need to be within a short distance of the transmitter at the start. I was hoping that there is a system that uses a tape that is triggered by the wheel hitting at the start and finish.
Also, I thought I read somewhere that there is a method for timing via video recorder. However, the timer would need to be manually started.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
I'm investigating timing systems to invest in for training purposes. Perhaps the most prevalent use of the timing system would be short velodrome trials, i.e. 200 meters and standing laps. I know how exorbitant some electronic timing systems can be. I did look into the Free Lap System etc. The advantages here are reasonably priced and simple to use. The disadvantages are the necessity to use a watch on the handlebar and the need to be within a short distance of the transmitter at the start. I was hoping that there is a system that uses a tape that is triggered by the wheel hitting at the start and finish.
Also, I thought I read somewhere that there is a method for timing via video recorder. However, the timer would need to be manually started.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
If this is truly for training purposes and not hosting a tournament or something, then realize that for shorter events, top speed is directly related to your finishing time. This means, if you are training for a flying 200, if you hit 42mph, that means your flying 200M time will be faster than if you hit 41mph.
For longer efforts, you can put a stopwatch on your aerobars and mark your splits yourself.
The best timing tool is a head unit that records the entire effort where you can download and review later. You don't need power (it's nice to have). You can do some in-depth analysis using speed, cadence, heart rate, and distance data all plotted over time. You can get a system like that for a couple hundred bucks. Adding Power costs a lot more.
#3502
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Also be wary of radio signal systems. These are usually made for timing distance runners in training. They work by the runner (wearing a transmitter) entering within x meters of the receiver. I think the margin of error can be significant. Not to mention radio signals (i.e. Bluetooth) being finicky.
Progression/regression in a flying 200M is measured within tenths of a second. If the margin of error is higher than that, then the system is useless.
Progression/regression in a flying 200M is measured within tenths of a second. If the margin of error is higher than that, then the system is useless.
Last edited by carleton; 05-15-16 at 04:52 PM.
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Also be wary of radio signal systems. These are usually made for timing distance runners in training. They work by the runner (wearing a transmitter) entering within x meters of the receiver. I think the margin of error can be significant. Not to mention radio signals (i.e. Bluetooth) being finicky.
Progression/regression in a flying 200M is measured within tenths of a second. If the margin of error is higher than that, then the system is useless.
Progression/regression in a flying 200M is measured within tenths of a second. If the margin of error is higher than that, then the system is useless.
Thanks for your input. Also, I wish I could hit 42.5 mph.
#3504
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Yes, I guess that's what I'm really trying to ascertain. I remember (I'll look up) a Free Lap tutorial on YT showcasing the unit with BMX bikes. Their advertising accuracy within hundredths of a second. To me I thought it would make a good backup for hand timers. We want it for training trials legitimacy. If the margin of error is significant then I don't think it would be very useful.
Thanks for your input. Also, I wish I could hit 42.5 mph.
Thanks for your input. Also, I wish I could hit 42.5 mph.
The only electronic timing systems that I have direct experience with (that weren't handheld) were DIY systems made by engineers in their free time. One of which I was very familiar with. It involved a custom programming, an Arduino board, and a Ditch Witch to run electronic wires underground to various points of the track. Not for the faint of heart
BTW, I've made an iOS app that does this. It's more sophisticated than a normal stopwatch. It's designed for track training and racing. Search for "track cycling time trial stopwatch" in the Apple App Store.
I'm trying to be careful and not advertise it but more so offer it as a possible solution to your problem. If you want, I can give you a free promo code to use it.
#3505
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meant that the one in place at the Velodrome in Los Angeles may not be available to everyone.. When I tried to get one a few months back that was the case..
#3506
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Hi All,
I'm investigating timing systems to invest in for training purposes. Perhaps the most prevalent use of the timing system would be short velodrome trials, i.e. 200 meters and standing laps. I know how exorbitant some electronic timing systems can be. I did look into the Free Lap System etc. The advantages here are reasonably priced and simple to use. The disadvantages are the necessity to use a watch on the handlebar and the need to be within a short distance of the transmitter at the start. I was hoping that there is a system that uses a tape that is triggered by the wheel hitting at the start and finish.
Also, I thought I read somewhere that there is a method for timing via video recorder. However, the timer would need to be manually started.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
I'm investigating timing systems to invest in for training purposes. Perhaps the most prevalent use of the timing system would be short velodrome trials, i.e. 200 meters and standing laps. I know how exorbitant some electronic timing systems can be. I did look into the Free Lap System etc. The advantages here are reasonably priced and simple to use. The disadvantages are the necessity to use a watch on the handlebar and the need to be within a short distance of the transmitter at the start. I was hoping that there is a system that uses a tape that is triggered by the wheel hitting at the start and finish.
Also, I thought I read somewhere that there is a method for timing via video recorder. However, the timer would need to be manually started.
Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.
Thanks
Not a great method but better than nothing.
It just occurred to me that it might be possible to mount a Go Pro facing the track so you could use it to obtain 200m times in a manner similar to the above (I would try this but do not have a Gp Pro).
#3507
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https://punainenparooni.com/2013/04/...bars-compared/
I was reading this post, and found this "With the Scatto my setup looks like this. I do not need to use spacers nor flip the stem upwards to make the bike UCI legal, like I did with Alpina bars (I have the 3T Arx Team stem, 6 degrees, 120mm). I can still do that if the position feels too aggressive. So I thing the Scatto gives me a bit more wiggle room to modify my setup"
What kind of uci rule is he talking about?
And do I have to set back my saddle 5cm for match sprint races?
I was reading this post, and found this "With the Scatto my setup looks like this. I do not need to use spacers nor flip the stem upwards to make the bike UCI legal, like I did with Alpina bars (I have the 3T Arx Team stem, 6 degrees, 120mm). I can still do that if the position feels too aggressive. So I thing the Scatto gives me a bit more wiggle room to modify my setup"
What kind of uci rule is he talking about?
And do I have to set back my saddle 5cm for match sprint races?
Last edited by gycho77; 05-17-16 at 06:34 PM.
#3508
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https://punainenparooni.com/2013/04/...bars-compared/
I was reading this post, and found this "With the Scatto my setup looks like this. I do not need to use spacers nor flip the stem upwards to make the bike UCI legal, like I did with Alpina bars (I have the 3T Arx Team stem, 6 degrees, 120mm). I can still do that if the position feels too aggressive. So I thing the Scatto gives me a bit more wiggle room to modify my setup"
What kind of uci rule is he talking about?
I was reading this post, and found this "With the Scatto my setup looks like this. I do not need to use spacers nor flip the stem upwards to make the bike UCI legal, like I did with Alpina bars (I have the 3T Arx Team stem, 6 degrees, 120mm). I can still do that if the position feels too aggressive. So I thing the Scatto gives me a bit more wiggle room to modify my setup"
What kind of uci rule is he talking about?
Scattos are shallow drop bars. If he has a stem in the negative (down) position and use deep drop bars like the Dolan/Alpina Sprint bars, then they would be so low that the grip area will be under the tire line. So, he had to flip the stem to the upward position to raise the bars.
I honestly forgot. Maybe someone else knows and will answer?
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The grip area of the handlebars cannot be lower than the top of the tire.
Scattos are shallow drop bars. If he has a stem in the negative (down) position and use deep drop bars like the Dolan/Alpina Sprint bars, then they would be so low that the grip area will be under the tire line. So, he had to flip the stem to the upward position to raise the bars.
I honestly forgot. Maybe someone else knows and will answer?
Scattos are shallow drop bars. If he has a stem in the negative (down) position and use deep drop bars like the Dolan/Alpina Sprint bars, then they would be so low that the grip area will be under the tire line. So, he had to flip the stem to the upward position to raise the bars.
I honestly forgot. Maybe someone else knows and will answer?
Thank you
And it's not fair that my handlebar has to be higher than tire
because if you are short like me(5'8"), you cannot lower your handlebar like tall people.
#3510
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https://punainenparooni.com/2013/04/...bars-compared/
I was reading this post, and found this "With the Scatto my setup looks like this. I do not need to use spacers nor flip the stem upwards to make the bike UCI legal, like I did with Alpina bars (I have the 3T Arx Team stem, 6 degrees, 120mm). I can still do that if the position feels too aggressive. So I thing the Scatto gives me a bit more wiggle room to modify my setup"
What kind of uci rule is he talking about?
And do I have to set back my saddle 5cm for match sprint races?
I was reading this post, and found this "With the Scatto my setup looks like this. I do not need to use spacers nor flip the stem upwards to make the bike UCI legal, like I did with Alpina bars (I have the 3T Arx Team stem, 6 degrees, 120mm). I can still do that if the position feels too aggressive. So I thing the Scatto gives me a bit more wiggle room to modify my setup"
What kind of uci rule is he talking about?
And do I have to set back my saddle 5cm for match sprint races?
- 1.3.013 The peak of the saddle shall be a minimum of 5 cm to the rear of a vertical plane passingthrough the bottom bracket spindle. This restriction shall not be applied to the bicycleridden by a rider in a sprint event on track (flying 200 m, flying lap, sprint, team sprint,keirin, 500 metres and 1 kilometre).
so in short, no.
#3511
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Of course, if you are riding a legal 650c bike in a race with 700c bikes, then you will probably be in the danger I mentioned above
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1.3.022 In competitions other than those covered by article 1.3.023, only the traditional type of
handlebars (see diagram «structure 1») may be used. The handlebars must be
positioned in an area defined as follows: above, by the horizontal plane of the point of
support of the saddle (B); below, by the horizontal line passing 10 cm below the highest
point of the two wheels (these being of equal diameter) (C); at the rear by the axis of the
steerer tube (D) and at the front by a vertical line passing through the front wheel spindle
with a 5 cm tolerance (see diagram «Structure (1A)»). The distance referred to in point
(A) is not applicable to the bicycle of a rider who takes part in a sprint event on track
(flying 200 m, flying lap, sprint, team sprint, keirin, 500 metres and 1 kilometre), but must
not exceed 10 cm in relation to the vertical line passing through the front wheel spindle.
handlebars (see diagram «structure 1») may be used. The handlebars must be
positioned in an area defined as follows: above, by the horizontal plane of the point of
support of the saddle (B); below, by the horizontal line passing 10 cm below the highest
point of the two wheels (these being of equal diameter) (C); at the rear by the axis of the
steerer tube (D) and at the front by a vertical line passing through the front wheel spindle
with a 5 cm tolerance (see diagram «Structure (1A)»). The distance referred to in point
(A) is not applicable to the bicycle of a rider who takes part in a sprint event on track
(flying 200 m, flying lap, sprint, team sprint, keirin, 500 metres and 1 kilometre), but must
not exceed 10 cm in relation to the vertical line passing through the front wheel spindle.
#3514
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...But im guessing that probably nowhere near that amount of drop is going to be an optimal setup if your frame fits, even for someone who is 5'8". You have to be able to apply power in that position and it's no fun when your hands go numb during the warmup....
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“The peak of the saddle shall be a minimum of 5 cm to the rear of a vertical planepassing through the bottom bracket spindle. This restriction shall not be applied to thebicycle ridden by a rider in a sprint event on track (flying 200 m, flying lap, sprint,team sprint, keirin, 500 metres and 1 kilometre); however, in no circumstances shallthe peak of the saddle extend in front of a vertical line passing through the bottombracket spindle.The peak of the saddle can be moved forward until the vertical line passing throughthe bottom bracket spindle where that is necessary for morphological reasons. Bymorphological reasons should be understood everything to do with the size and limblength of the rider.Any rider who, for these reasons, considers that he needs to use a bicycle of lesserdimensions than those given shall inform the commissaires' panel to that effect at thetime of the bike check.Only one exemption for morphological reasons may be requested; either the peak ofthe saddle can be moved forward or the handlebar extensions can be movedforward, in accordance with Article 1.3.023”
is the full article on the saddle setback. So track sprinter can go past the 5 cm limit but not have the front of the saddle ahead of the bottom bracket center.
https://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/R...NG_English.PDF is the full UCI equipment rule guide with explanations.
is the full article on the saddle setback. So track sprinter can go past the 5 cm limit but not have the front of the saddle ahead of the bottom bracket center.
https://www.uci.ch/mm/Document/News/R...NG_English.PDF is the full UCI equipment rule guide with explanations.
#3516
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Thank you everyone for all your help.
I think I could set up my bike what I wanted and worry about nothing.
It's good to hear that most of uci rules do not bother me at all haha
I think I could set up my bike what I wanted and worry about nothing.
It's good to hear that most of uci rules do not bother me at all haha
#3517
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Gycho, lower isn't always better. The lower you go, the less power you are able to make.
You can test this on trainer (or even a spin bike in a gym). Set the resistance at a moderate level and turn the cranks. As you continue to pedal, slowly bend your elbows and lower your back and you will eventually hit a point where your leg muscles can't produce the power they were just making.
So, while you may be flexible enough to go very low, your muscles lose effectiveness after a certain point.
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Yeah, I totally agree.
Gycho, lower isn't always better. The lower you go, the less power you are able to make.
You can test this on trainer (or even a spin bike in a gym). Set the resistance at a moderate level and turn the cranks. As you continue to pedal, slowly bend your elbows and lower your back and you will eventually hit a point where your leg muscles can't produce the power they were just making.
So, while you may be flexible enough to go very low, your muscles lose effectiveness after a certain point.
Gycho, lower isn't always better. The lower you go, the less power you are able to make.
You can test this on trainer (or even a spin bike in a gym). Set the resistance at a moderate level and turn the cranks. As you continue to pedal, slowly bend your elbows and lower your back and you will eventually hit a point where your leg muscles can't produce the power they were just making.
So, while you may be flexible enough to go very low, your muscles lose effectiveness after a certain point.
Maybe I will lower my handlebar half an inch and try other position.
and this is my apartment gym, if you are interested. When I move to LA, I'm going to get a gym membership so I have more equipments
and here is a picture of myself.
I have been training in gym for about four months now, but I started proper training(upupup) a month ago.
I think I shouldn't be a sprinter because of my body.....
#3519
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That's plenty of good equipment to help you train.
Race a few races before you decide if you are a "sprinter" or not. Ask people that watch you train/race what they think. Remember, your beginning races will suck. Everybody does in the beginning.
Race a few races before you decide if you are a "sprinter" or not. Ask people that watch you train/race what they think. Remember, your beginning races will suck. Everybody does in the beginning.
#3520
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Today I looked at around 100 track bikes from small to large and belonging to a cyclists from world class to beginners. Only one bike had its bars level with the top of the front wheel.
Last edited by 700wheel; 05-19-16 at 06:50 PM. Reason: update
#3521
Senior Member
Possibly scouring the net for pictures of juniors may give a better result. The rule allowing a lower bar position is relatively new so a lot of seniors are just too big to worry or already happy with where they are. The juniors are affected by the same rules as us so you might see some lower bar positions in junior competition.
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Does anyone use this wingnuts for training?
I think this nuts will be helpful when you are training.
I'm not going to buy this. I just want to hear your opinions on this
Wing Nuts
I think this nuts will be helpful when you are training.
I'm not going to buy this. I just want to hear your opinions on this
Wing Nuts
Last edited by gycho77; 05-20-16 at 12:06 PM.
#3525
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Does anyone use this wingnuts for training?
I think this nuts will be helpful when you are training, because it helps us swap the cog faster.
I'm not going to buy this. I just want to hear your opinions on this
Wing Nuts
I think this nuts will be helpful when you are training, because it helps us swap the cog faster.
I'm not going to buy this. I just want to hear your opinions on this
Wing Nuts
Roadies used those before Mr. Campagnolo invented the quick release. That's why a quick release lever is in their logo: