Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Living Car Free
Reload this Page >

Oslo: The Journey to Car Free

Notices
Living Car Free Do you live car free or car light? Do you prefer to use alternative transportation (bicycles, walking, other human-powered or public transportation) for everyday activities whenever possible? Discuss your lifestyle here.

Oslo: The Journey to Car Free

Old 07-05-17, 05:43 PM
  #426  
McBTC
Senior Member
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,888

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1543 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 39 Posts
Originally Posted by Mobile 155
But it doesn't look like they are buying much of the urban life. It seems as if they aren't buying much of anything but rather moving in with friends or parents, wherever that might be. Millennials Have Jobs But Still Live at Home | Time.com
Like eaglets... fully feathered and able to fly but not about to leave he nest so long as maw and paw keep dropping off the fish? It's easier and cheaper than living in slab city and... free WiFi! Different mindset for sure. Perhaps they could do with a touch of car cult thinking to liven up weed-dampened aspirations-- pretty sure the idea of riding a bike to work to avoid car payments ain't 'gonna do it.
McBTC is offline  
Old 07-05-17, 06:07 PM
  #427  
jon c. 
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 4,812
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1,015 Times in 570 Posts
Originally Posted by cooker
As discussed in this thread, cities are growing both up and out, so not just out, as they did in the latter 20th century

see eg. Millennials Continue Urbanization Of America, Leaving Small Towns : NPR
But the real changes are marginal and certainly aren't fundamental changes to age old model.

Sure, we're doing a bit better at controlling some of the more hideous aspects of poorly planned growth than we were 40 years ago, but not in any way that will radically alter the landscape in the foreseeable future.

I don't think making cities larger is really the answer. And they will continue to grow more out than up as urbanization if fine for youth but they're going to move out as they breed. I'd prefer to see the small towns revived and increased in size by manageable degrees. Linked to larger cities by high speed rail. Technology has changed what we need in our living arrangements and I think we should start planning for that rather than just rearranging what we've been doing for centuries. But as I said, on reflection I realize that isn't going to happen. We are just going to keep doing the same thing. So you're probably correct that we should just cheer when we do it a bit better.
jon c. is offline  
Old 07-05-17, 08:27 PM
  #428  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,951

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,517 Times in 1,031 Posts
Originally Posted by McBTC
Like eaglets... fully feathered and able to fly but not about to leave he nest so long as maw and paw keep dropping off the fish? It's easier and cheaper than living in slab city and... free WiFi!
Better yet, can always borrow one of the family cars and maintain the fiction of being an LCF crusader if that floats the eaglet's boat.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 07-05-17, 09:43 PM
  #429  
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,870

Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3939 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 87 Posts
Originally Posted by Mobile 155
But it doesn't look like they are buying much of the urban life. It seems as if they aren't buying much of anything but rather moving in with friends or parents... Millennials Have Jobs But Still Live at Home | Time.com
I had to dig to find the source report, and TIME has kind of overblown the issue. The proportion of millenials living at home has gone from 24% to 26% since 2007, so 3/4 of them don't live at home.
Originally Posted by Mobile 155
wherever that might be.
What it would be interesting to know, is how the parental location figures in. For example is one reason for living at home that the parents live closer to downtown than the kid can afford? In my daughter's case that might be one reason. She had a room-mate lined up but they wanted a more suburban location for lower rent, and so they decided not to share.

Last edited by cooker; 07-05-17 at 09:49 PM.
cooker is offline  
Old 07-05-17, 09:57 PM
  #430  
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,870

Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3939 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 87 Posts
Originally Posted by jon c.
But the real changes are marginal and certainly aren't fundamental changes to age old model.

Sure, we're doing a bit better at controlling some of the more hideous aspects of poorly planned growth than we were 40 years ago, but not in any way that will radically alter the landscape in the foreseeable future.

I don't think making cities larger is really the answer. And they will continue to grow more out than up as urbanization if fine for youth but they're going to move out as they breed. I'd prefer to see the small towns revived and increased in size by manageable degrees. Linked to larger cities by high speed rail. Technology has changed what we need in our living arrangements and I think we should start planning for that rather than just rearranging what we've been doing for centuries. But as I said, on reflection I realize that isn't going to happen. We are just going to keep doing the same thing. So you're probably correct that we should just cheer when we do it a bit better.
As I've said before, old-style small towns were a form of density - everybody lived just off main street and your 4 year old could run to the corner store with a nickel to get your newspaper, but now even they have massive sprawl and everyone drives everywhere. An updated version of walkable nodes distributed along rail lines would be the most efficient use of space - everybody who wanted to could live close to nature and also have ready access to urban amenities.
cooker is offline  
Old 07-05-17, 10:03 PM
  #431  
Mobile 155
Senior Member
 
Mobile 155's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex
Posts: 5,058

Bikes: 2013 Haro FL Comp 29er MTB.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1470 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 45 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by cooker
I had to dig to find the source report, and TIME has kind of overblown the issue. The proportion of millenials living at home has gone from 24% to 26% since 2007, so 3/4 of them don't live at home. What it would be interesting to know, is how the parental location figures in. For example is one reason for living at home that the parents live closer to downtown than the kid can afford? In my daughter's case that might be one reason. She had a room-mate lined up but they wanted a more suburban location for lower rent, and so they decided not to share.
Huff post had the number at 36 percent have moved home and aren't buying homes either. So now that they have merged the burbs into the Urban basket it is easy to say the Millennials are more urban. Still it is pretty much accepted by many reporting sources including the BBC. A third of US millennials still live at home, census report finds - BBC News

I do wonder how they will do once they get back into a full employment society? But if a third are moving home, be that the burbs or the city, it isn't a property growth spurt making the city bigger.
Mobile 155 is offline  
Old 07-05-17, 10:09 PM
  #432  
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,870

Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3939 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 87 Posts
Originally Posted by Mobile 155
Huff post had the number at 36 percent have moved home and aren't buying homes either. So now that they have merged the burbs into the Urban basket it is easy to say the Millennials are more urban. Still it is pretty much accepted by many reporting sources including the BBC. A third of US millennials still live at home, census report finds - BBC News

I do wonder how they will do once they get back into a full employment society? But if a third are moving home, be that the burbs or the city, it isn't a property growth spurt making the city bigger.
The US census study reported by the BBC included college dorms as "home" - although in a way I suppose that is fair, as they don't have a permanent home and presumably go back to the parental home on break. The bit about the burbs being urban is a non-sequiter as we don't have data on where the majority living away from home have settled - inner urban or outer urban if you will.

EDIT: actually one of the cited articles said the DC suburbs of Arlington and Alexandria were among the most popular locations for millenials - I don't know much about them - are they more urban dense or suburban sprawl?

Last edited by cooker; 07-17-17 at 08:23 AM.
cooker is offline  
Old 07-05-17, 10:25 PM
  #433  
Mobile 155
Senior Member
 
Mobile 155's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex
Posts: 5,058

Bikes: 2013 Haro FL Comp 29er MTB.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1470 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 45 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by I-Like-To-Bike
Better yet, can always borrow one of the family cars and maintain the fiction of being an LCF crusader if that floats the eaglet's boat.
Well played.
Mobile 155 is offline  
Old 07-05-17, 10:33 PM
  #434  
Mobile 155
Senior Member
 
Mobile 155's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Dallas Fort Worth Metroplex
Posts: 5,058

Bikes: 2013 Haro FL Comp 29er MTB.

Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1470 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 45 Times in 35 Posts
Originally Posted by cooker
The US census study reported by the BBC included college dorms as "home" - although in a way I suppose that is fair, as they don't have a permanent home and presumably go back to the parental home on break. The bit about the burbs being urban is a non-sequiter as we don't have data on where the majority living away from home have settled - inner urban or outer urban if you will.

EDIT: actually one of the cited articles said the DC suburbs of Arlington and Alexandria were among the most popular locations for millenials - I don't know much about them - are they more urban dense of suburban sprawl?
I might agree that urban and suburban doesn't matter as long as that is how people feel. But if the blanket statement is made that Millennial youth are moving into the urban repopulating the cities it loses some of its impact if that urban area is in the Suburbs where the "rents" already were living and the kids grew up there. I don't think that model is what Oslo is looking for at all. And as prices increase will they be able to afford to move our and stay in a city Like Oslo or will they be driven out like they are with the costs in Copenhagen?
Mobile 155 is offline  
Old 07-06-17, 11:05 AM
  #435  
McBTC
Senior Member
 
McBTC's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 3,888

Bikes: 2015 22 Speed

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1543 Post(s)
Liked 51 Times in 39 Posts
Imagine for a moment the TdF and no cars. Bicycling star Mark Cavendish drives a McLaren and owns a second home in Italy. LCF means depending on your bike like most depend on their cars. I guess the same could be said for Cavendish who also depends on his bike to afford homes and cars.
McBTC is offline  
Old 07-06-17, 11:53 AM
  #436  
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,870

Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3939 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 87 Posts
Originally Posted by McBTC
Imagine for a moment the TdF and no cars. Bicycling star Mark Cavendish drives a McLaren and owns a second home in Italy.
Unfortunately I can now imagine the TdF without Mark Cavendish. sad.
cooker is offline  
Old 07-06-17, 12:08 PM
  #437  
I-Like-To-Bike
Been Around Awhile
 
I-Like-To-Bike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Burlington Iowa
Posts: 29,951

Bikes: Vaterland and Ragazzi

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 12 Post(s)
Liked 1,517 Times in 1,031 Posts
Originally Posted by McBTC
Imagine for a moment the TdF and no cars.
It certainly wouldn't look like the current TdF which looks like a goat rope of motorized vehicles and bicyclists weaving in and out of each other's path.
I-Like-To-Bike is offline  
Old 01-30-19, 09:32 AM
  #438  
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,870

Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3939 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 87 Posts
Bumped because when we last discussed Olso's downtown car-reduced redesign, they were in the throes of start up stresses and conflicts; so here is an update on how it's going now.
https://www.fastcompany.com/90294948...cally-car-free

"But while business owners initially worried about the city creating a ghost town that no one would visit, the opposite seems to be true; as in other cities that have converted some streets to pedestrian-only areas, the areas in Oslo that have been pedestrianized are some of the most popular parts of the city, Marcussen says. Last fall, after hundreds of parking spots had been removed, the city found that it had 10% more pedestrians in the center than the year before. “So that is telling me that we are doing something right,” she says."

Hopefully the Danish guy will revisit the thread and continue to tell us how bad Oslo is compared to Copenhagen

EDIT: there is a new thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/living-ca...free-oslo.html

Last edited by cooker; 01-30-19 at 04:35 PM.
cooker is offline  
Old 01-05-20, 12:20 PM
  #439  
cooker
Prefers Cicero
 
cooker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,870

Bikes: 1984 Trek 520; 2007 Bike Friday NWT; misc others

Mentioned: 86 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3939 Post(s)
Liked 112 Times in 87 Posts
Bumped one more time for this:

Vision Zero! Norwegian Capital Completely Quashes Road Deaths

https://usa.streetsblog.org/2020/01/03/vision-zero-norwegian-capital-completely-quashes-road-deaths/

Please continue in new thread: https://www.bikeforums.net/living-ca...hs-2019-a.html

Last edited by cooker; 01-05-20 at 12:27 PM.
cooker is offline  
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Dahon.Steve
Living Car Free
10
10-30-14 12:44 AM
bragi
Living Car Free
35
08-17-14 11:50 PM
Ekdog
Living Car Free
398
06-25-14 11:15 PM
joao_pimentel
Living Car Free
20
01-16-14 03:54 AM
gerv
Living Car Free
55
02-19-11 07:26 PM

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.